| Author | Message | ||
| Aliza Registered user Username: Aliza Post Number: 43 Registered: 8-2006 |
I thought this information might be helpful for understanding what's going on inside of us as we start our walk of questioning Adventism. Stan posted a link from this website and I was looking around and saw info I thought really helpful. http://www.exitsupportnetwork.com/artcls/leave.htm This first section is how people leave churches. I believe for SDAs we see "Walkouts" and "Findouts". It's especially sad that we've all seen so many of these "walkouts" in the wilderness spiritually speaking. WALK OUTS These people simply rebel from the situation and leave. Unless they shed the mind control, walk-outs may lead destructive or fear-filled lives. Some adopt the attitude that since they couldn't measure up to the system's requirements, there isn't any hope for them anyway, so they might as well "live it up" while they can. Some develop patterns of living that they wouldn't have chosen otherwise. KICKED OUTS These people are excommunicated [disfellowshipped] or shunned for a variety of reasons, usually related to the fact that they failed to fully integrate the four aspects of mind control--information control, thought control, emotion control and behavior control. People who are kicked out of cults are commonly filled with grief and guilt. They are still very loyal to the group's beliefs and its people, even though rejected by the group. BURN OUTS These people have been so abused spiritually, mentally, physically, emotionally and financially, that they are barely able to function on a normal basis. Some "burn-outs" exhibit the Post-Traumatic Stress syndrome that is commonly experienced by war survivors. They are usually very confused, perhaps even physically ill, afraid and unable to trust anyone, most of all themselves. FIND OUTS These are people who are given, or stumble onto information which explains the situation enabling them to leave the mind control without fear and guilt. These people usually take several years to work through the adjustment to normal living and attitudes. Education, scriptural as well as secular, cultivating new friends and establishing a new environment and restoring one's God-given personality are most helpful. The more one learns, the greater the healing. COUNSELED OUTS These people are rare. Few studies have been done on the needs of people who were born and raised within a mind control group. Most counselors are ill-equipped to handle the complexities of exit counseling because there are so many factors involved in mind control, and each person's experience is different, even within the same group. | ||
| Aliza Registered user Username: Aliza Post Number: 44 Registered: 8-2006 |
Here are the first five stages of leaving. Since I studied myself out independently of information I didn't know this until later and looking back. For me at least, it's comforting to recognize that others have walked through the same stages/problems. STAGES IN LEAVING ... THE WITHDRAWAL PROCESS The control in the...system is so strong that people report they have been affected for years afterwards. It is for this reason that the WITHDRAWAL STAGES should be well understood by everyone. STAGE ONE: This often begins almost immediately after acknowledging something is wrong. The mind and will may be completely taken over by the logic presented by the members and leaders. However, the gut feeling, emotions, or conscience often indicates that something is not quite right. STAGE TWO: This doubt causes a feeling of guilt which the person attempts to stuff and deny. The guilt drives him or her to deeper resolve to "do right" or submit and to ignore any information that conflicts with the leadersí message. However, the conscience continues to exert itself causing the person to question things. Most people donít know what to question. They may question the "standards", the existence of God or the truth of the scripture. They rarely have enough wisdom to question the history or the doctrine of the group. STAGE THREE: The person will give lip service to the group but in reality often behaves or does things that are against the rules. This causes even more guilt and more resolve to "get right." STAGE FOUR: If the person is observant and alert, he or she may notice some discrepancies between what the scripture says and what is done within the group. Or he may hear of a scandal or problem that bothers him. This may worry some people but many others just think, "Oh, well, the people arenít perfect but the WAY [or Godís government] is perfect." Or "Oh well, what can I do?" or "Oh well, God will take care of it." STAGE FIVE: The person may hear of the history of the church and begin to wonder why he was lied to regarding the founder of the group. An inquisitive person may begin an investigation. At this point, the person usually becomes very quiet and fearful about letting others know of his questions. By this time he has found out that it is socially unacceptable to voice any doubts. | ||
| Aliza Registered user Username: Aliza Post Number: 45 Registered: 8-2006 |
The last five stages: STAGE SIX: The denial stage in which the person decides to ignore all the warning signs. They are actually afraid of or angry at anyone who has information that exposes the deceit of the organization. Some people NEVER get past this stage. They are hostile towards any information that spotlights the deceit and errors of the group. STAGE SEVEN: The "Donít know what to think" stage. MANY people get stuck here. They will try to figure things out on their own. They are suspicious of everyone. They donít trust the friends or ministers and they donít trust themselves. They donít trust traditional Christianity. They donít trust the information that exposes the group. They may not trust the scripture and might try to find reasons to believe the Bible wasnít translated correctly. This stage is very critical. The stress of it can cause illness, anxiety, nightmares, emotional problems, marital problems, divorce, and destructive accidents because of so much mental preoccupation, suicide [suicidal feelings], hostility and anger. Some report a problem with nausea, clenched teeth or other outward signs of tension. This stage is extremely painful and frightening. Usually the longer a person or his family has been in the group, the more painful it is. At this stage, some people try to reason with the leaders. They will either arrange for visits or write long agonizing letters. Some hope that they can change the system or get some members to agree with them. They are AMAZED at the total inability of the members to hear what they are saying. However, some members will agree with their arguments, pat them on the head and try to smooth their ruffled feelings. STAGE EIGHT: The state in which a decision is made to leave the group. The person may go in several directions. They may become angry at God, or become an agnostic or atheist. They may try to start their own spiritual quest or church in the home. They may reach out to secular psychology for relief. Or, they may hook into another cult. They may decide to just let the spiritual part of their life hang in mid-air for awhile. Some people get stuck in a yo-yo syndrome: they will leave the group, go back to the group, leave, go back, leave and go back. They rarely ever figure out what the group believes or even what they believe. Or, they may become born again as a result of doing some intense praying, in-depth study and reaching out to normal Christian information. This stage is extremely crucial. If a married couple doesnít agree or reach this stage together it can destroy their marriage. Almost total rejection from the group and family inside occurs if the person announces his new allegiance to Christ instead of to the cultic system. STAGE NINE: The state in which the old personality disintegrates and a new one is formed. The person will get rid of old clothes, old hairstyles, old possessions. Some people experience a lot of anxiety in adjusting to a new identity because their whole self concept was so closely tied to the group attitude towards themselves. New interests, charitable activities and hobbies are found. Bible study and Bible classes become the new excitement if one has been born again. The person rejoices at every new day and has a sense of peace. The world looks beautiful, people seem wonderful, nature seems to glow with the power and beauty of God. If a satisfactory church is found the person finds a great deal of happiness. STAGE TEN: The person is in constant amazement at the difference between the old life and the new life. The person is able to pity those who are still in the old group and will eventually be able to laugh about his old experiences. The person will often want to reach out to others whom he has known while in the group. He feels a strong need to talk about the experience in order to understand the strong emotions and confusion he felt while inside the group. Talking to other ex-members seems to be the best therapy for those going through this process. Writing down what one has heard, experienced and believes [is also very helpful]. ~ Originally posted by the late Jan Groenveld of Cult Awareness Center in Australia. [Words in brackets inserted by ESN.] Footnote by ESN: 1 Trauma after exiting is in the mind and has often been referred to as a "rape of the mind." Child survivors experience changes in self-esteem with identity issues being a major concern. | ||
| Aliza Registered user Username: Aliza Post Number: 46 Registered: 8-2006 |
I'm wondering if any of you find this helpful. I've seen lots of comments here that reflect various points on these stages. We can probably all find something that resonates with our individual walk. Perhaps a discussion of this would be helpful for the lurkers. For me, this wasn't an easy journey after 50+ years of Adventism and I never really wanted to leave Adventism. But freedom in Jesus Christ is worth it all! | ||
| Randyg Registered user Username: Randyg Post Number: 304 Registered: 12-2004 |
Aliza, Thank-you for going to the trouble to present all this material. What a great resource and explanation of how the possess works. This will be a great tool for me in that it will help me to understand the stages that different people are at in how they preceive Adventism ,and their place in it. This will help me to identify and customize my approach in dealing with my Adventist friends who talk to me about their concerns and doubts. Thank-you, thank-you, thank-you, Now let me run and turn on my printer!! Bless you, Randy | ||
| Mwh Registered user Username: Mwh Post Number: 247 Registered: 4-2006  |
"The state in which the old personality disintegrates and a new one is formed. The person will get rid of old clothes, old hairstyles, old possessions. Some people experience a lot of anxiety in adjusting to a new identity because their whole self concept was so closely tied to the group attitude towards themselves. New interests, charitable activities and hobbies are found. Bible study and Bible classes become the new excitement if one has been born again. The person rejoices at every new day and has a sense of peace. The world looks beautiful, people seem wonderful, nature seems to glow with the power and beauty of God. If a satisfactory church is found the person finds a great deal of happiness." Aliza Oh that so much describes the new birth, I can put my signature on that one. Its so real, I got saved about 2 years ago and its so true what is described above, though I was called out from the World and not SDA. In Christ | ||
| U2bsda Registered user Username: U2bsda Post Number: 306 Registered: 11-2004 |
Wow Aliza! Thanks for sharing that. I saw my past in many of those stages although I didn't go through everything there. It took me 8 years to go from stage 1 to stage 10! | ||
| Jeremiah Registered user Username: Jeremiah Post Number: 163 Registered: 1-2004  |
Cool! I figure I'm in stage 9 right now...  Jeremiah | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 4894 Registered: 12-2003  |
Aliza, thank you! These stages are amazing and SO true! I don't know why, after all these years, it should be at all noteworthy to me that they were published by the Cult Awareness Center of Australia. Of course I consider Adventism a cultóbut my conviction on this matter meets with more anger and disbeliefóeven from formersóthan agreement. Yet every stage described above describes a stage of leaving Adventism. Every one. Leaving Adventism is not just like leaving a Christian church with some aberrant doctrines. It is leaving a cultóand the process of becoming integrated into the body of Christ is identical to that of a former JW, LDS, or any other cult member. We didn't come merely from false beliefs. We came from a system of "mind control" and religious manipulation and deceit which has the stamp of darkness on it. It takes a person two to five years to process out of Adventismójust as it takes someone leaving any other cult. Fascinating, Aliza. Thank you. Colleen | ||
| Stevendi Registered user Username: Stevendi Post Number: 3 Registered: 10-2006 |
Thanks everyone. You are right, Colleen, it takes 2-5 years to "get over it" and on with one's walk with Christ however that takes form. We are just ending our second year out of sda - it seems like two decades, but what a trip! (Still working on our story). FAF has been very helpful since we found it 6 months ago. The stages described by Aliza are very familiar in our and others' experiences (even though some get stuck in an early stage without some sort of enlightenment. We can testify to this much: if you ask God for answers, you will get them and much more! All we can really do is praise Him. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 4899 Registered: 12-2003 |
Stevendióit's good to have you here! Praise God that He is healing you and establishing you in faith! Colleen | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 2238 Registered: 3-2005 |
Thanks Aliza for posting that website material. Just to quote number ten again: "The person is in constant amazement at the difference between the old life and the new life. The person is able to pity those who are still in the old group and will eventually be able to laugh about his old experiences. The person will often want to reach out to others whom he has known while in the group. He feels a strong need to talk about the experience in order to understand the strong emotions and confusion he felt while inside the group. Talking to other ex-members seems to be the best therapy for those going through this process. Writing down what one has heard, experienced and believes [is also very helpful]." I praise God that He allows me to laugh at my previous experience that at the time was not funny at all, but at the same time I am praising God for allowing me to grow up Adventist and most importantly, so graciously leading me out of Adventism. It is wonderful to be rejoicing daily in the gospel of God's sovereign grace! Stan | ||
| Cathy2 Registered user Username: Cathy2 Post Number: 211 Registered: 2-2006 |
Thank you, Aliza, for posting this material. I think it is very needed to know among Christians, whether they have expereinced it or not becasue we run across persons, who have exited out from cults, etc.. I had a friend, once, who had been in Scientology for 26 years, and, although she had been out of it for a number of years, there were still peculiaralities about her I just could not wrap my mind around.And some controlling traits, too, which were hard. Later, I studied cult things and ran across this list (or somehting very similar) and the light went on. It helped me understand my friend and to minister to her in a more gentle way, not expecting her to be like everyone else in society or even all put together, yet. (It, also, showed me where I had been on my own path, in the past) She had never received exit counseling, so had just floundered the best she could, after leaving. Spiritual Exit-counseling, leaving any type of group, is very needed, imho. This list would have helped me--about myself-- in the early 90's, but no Internet, then. Cathy | ||
| Dd Registered user Username: Dd Post Number: 763 Registered: 7-2004 |
Aliza, Thank you for all the time and effort you took in sharing this process and stages with us. What an experience, indeed, to move from the mind-controlled, robotic stage to complete freedom and understanding of the gift of Jesus Christ. What breaks my heart is the thought of all those people who are in these stages and suffering. I was already through a few of the stages when I discovered FAF. I can only describe finding FAF as being lost in the thick, dark jungle - tangled in vines and brush, without a guide or a light - and finally stumbling into a sunny, warm clearing with water and food waiting for me to nourish and rest. Praise God for leading me to that clearing! Thank you to Colleen and Richard for the love, reassurance and support you have provided for so many. Praying daily for FAF, Denise | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 2986 Registered: 3-2004  |
Aliza, Thanks for posting the process and stages of leaving a cult/adventism. I had gone through most of them when I found FAF. My 12 step program not only helped me with my food problem/what caused me to overeat, but with relationships and unknown to me my "church" relationship. I still needed FAF for support and friendship, assurance and love and sharing. God was so good to get me into the 12 step program and then to bring me through all the things He did to get me here. Colleen and Richard, a BIG thank you for FAF. And God, You are awesome as always. Diana |
