| Author | Message | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 53 Registered: 9-2006 |
Some may remember what I said about one of my sda friends who began reading Ellen White and his personality changed from loving and humble to hard and unrelenting. Since then he is slowly coming around to his old self, as I said, I was simply amazed at the change that developed over night. I think the way we became close friends anyway was because of his humble and loving spirit. All this has leads me to close self examination. We as Christians seem to occupy one of three chairs, the hireling, the servant, or the friend. Which chair do I sit in? The friend will not flee at the first sign of trouble but will endure, I think, on close examination of the matter, to have a friend one needs to make up his mind to be a friend, which takes deep personal commitment. For instance, when my wife and I disagree we donít talk divorce or when one of us hits a rough place the thought of abandonment never enters our mind, after 45 years she knows me and feels secure, she knows I have committed to endure to the end whatever hardship may come our way. How did such an unlikely friendship between an Adventist and a Pentecostal occur? I think the answer to that is simply this. God put him in my way. If I can trust the Lord for Salvation, then I can surely trust him with the ones he brings my way. We stretch out the empty hand of faith, and God in his mercy and grace puts in our empty hand, the gift of eternal life. When I stretch out my hand, is it empty or is there a dagger of mistrust, malcontent and division hidden there? Will that person feel the warmth of true friendship when he takes my hand or the bite of cold hard steel? Lord search my heart today. | ||
| Cathy2 Registered user Username: Cathy2 Post Number: 203 Registered: 2-2006 |
In the long run, love is a choice, empowered by Grace, through the Holy Spirit. A wise, ministering (to many) woman said, once, "Your need is my obedience." I have found that hardness in a person, hides much insecurity. God bless you, River~ Cathy | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 4893 Registered: 12-2003  |
River and Cathy, good insights. I really liked this statement, River: "If I can trust the Lord for Salvation, then I can surely trust him with the ones he brings my way." In fact, sometimes God allows people to be taken out of the wayófor whatever reason. While I agree with what you say above, I just want to acknowledge that it is also true that sometimes people walk out of our lives when we leave the church, and that leaving is not always precipitated by our withdrawing or being hostile or pushy. Sometimes it just happens because the reality of our faith shines the light on their own rationlizing, and the cognitive dissonance is too uncomfortable to continue relating to us. But God DOES bring people onto our path, and when He does, He also equips us to minister and to be vulnerable to them. Colleen | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 54 Registered: 9-2006 |
Cathy, Agreed, I think his insecurity stems from lack of confidence in his own Salvation for I have heard him say ìI just hope I am found good enough for him to save meî and of course I cringe at that. I think he turned in desperation to Whites writings and of course it was the wrong turn, all I can do is pray for him and continue to lift up the Lord Jesus Christ to him. My friend is 75 years old and I think deep down in his heart that he senses his own rightness will not be enough. Colleen: Thank you, sometimes I tend to forget that God does bring into as well as remove people from our lives. I think sometimes he takes out of our way to protect us donít you? River. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 4898 Registered: 12-2003 |
Yes, River, I do. Colleen | ||
| Cathy2 Registered user Username: Cathy2 Post Number: 204 Registered: 2-2006 |
River, Your heart is deep. God will bless the seeds you sow. Your friend sounds like my 85 y/o father, who leans and believes on Ellen White more than the Bible or Christ's salvation on the cross. And my dad is filled up with insecurity and fearfulness, including about his own salvation. I have no doubt that he, sometimes, fears he will go to hell because of his sins (even when others forgive him). In my childhood, I heard him weep over this. These mentalities only make him harder and more perfectionistic on himself and everyone around him...and possess a judgemental hardness and harshness. I see it, as well,in my sister, who became an Ellen fanatic...and, now, one of her grown daughters. It is tragic. I agree about prayer. it is THE most POWERFUL--and loving--action we can do for friends and family--for any situation, but especially, spiritual strongholds like these. I believe that only the power of the Holy Spirit can break them, while we do what we can, too (God uses us and enables us through Christ's power). The next thing we can do is just be there, never judging, trying not to argue nor 'convert' (it is useless and the Holy Spirit convicts and draws, anyway), be ourselves in Christ, answer why we believe what we do, and let go and let God. Some SDA's are blessed and changed with anti-SDA/Ellen material, but my family already knows all of it and still continues as Adventists. The above is what I have fallen back on and I trust that God will do his work in each indiviual, in their own timing and God's--what I cannot do. He said what I can do in scripture, so that's what I hold onto-- Pray; love them the best I can (sometimes, they haven't been real nice, so I withdraw until I get over it, through much prayer and Christ); encourage; tell and give them verses which apply in a given situation (they all claim to love scripture); be there for them in their troubles (and joys); answer for my own faith and, mostly, live it. If God desires you to stay or if he is going to remove this person from your life, you will know it, clearly, sooner or later. Bless your heart and desire for Christ's love to be known~ Cathy | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 56 Registered: 9-2006 |
Cathy2: Thank you so very much for that, you father sounds just like my friend, he is so very hard on himself, so very true. I have anguished many times about how I should act around these people, I know that if I confront, hostility and estrangement is sure to follow and I will never get another chance to lift up our savior to them. They know that I am an evangelical, they know who I am. I sometimes tease them a little, I tell them I will ìCome down and fix them a bait of possum and sweet tatersî, especially when one of them complains of stomach problems. Ha. Ha. I know though, in my heart of hearts, that what I can do is pray and be a friend. Thank you again. You really donít know how much I needed what you wrote. I really donít eat possum, sometimes I do end up eating crow. River | ||
| Cathy2 Registered user Username: Cathy2 Post Number: 207 Registered: 2-2006 |
You are welcome, River. All I did was share my own experience, and that can connect and encourage people more than anything, at times--knowing that we are not alone!!! What we feel and experience, others, too, feel and know. "Bearing each other's burdens". "A 3-stranded cord"...is strongest. As Formers, we know the feeling of isolation and being alone in the world--even the Christian world--very, very much! Whom can truly understand our strange background? Especially, those, who were born into Adventism, then left for an extremely different paradigm and new way of life, left ALL we knew...starting over from scratch. So, here on FAF, one of the blessings is not being alone along this path and the heartbreak, which does come. None of us chose the easy path... We all have an individual, Former-SDA cross to carry, but we do so for our Lord, and he is with us, always. I know what you mean, wondering how to act, be, speak around some. Then I gave up, not satisfied with myself, and just kept my mouth shut, unless they say something to me, ask a question or I have something truly important to say. So much of what I used to gabble on about (just ordinary things, too) was misinterpretted or thought to be so 'pagan', wicked or wild that I'd end up just mad, frustrated and alienated from them.(This applies, mostly, to families, I am sure, where relations could be difficult anyway.) One residue from Adventism within myself, is being too hard on myself, self-doubting, and not leaving and praying how I am to God and his continuing transformation--growing up in Jesus-- of me in Christ and Christ in me. I have found that the more I pray for Christ to transform me and my faults and pray for the difficult people in my life, the more love and grace I have for them, and the more I can love my neighbor. I think your joyful invitations to have good food and good company is one of the best Christian acts there can be! Opening up your warm home, heart and kitchen. Actions speak! Joy and enjoyment--and acceptence-- are contagious. Good soil! It is somethinig I desire to do more of soon, espcially, with the people we are meeting in our new church, some neighbors and family (Because of 2 of us with health problems, I had to stop hospitality for a few years. I missed it). Thank you for reminding me! Hmmm...Christmas parties and goodies. Have some fudge. Sweet tators! You are from the South, aren't you! Grits! They cannot cook grits to save their lives here in Colorado, poor things. And the bisciuts are rocks. I think my ancestors in Georgia, probably, shot squirrels.  Cathy | ||
| Loneviking Registered user Username: Loneviking Post Number: 488 Registered: 7-2000 |
Sweet tators! You are from the South, aren't you! Grits! They cannot cook grits to save their lives here in Colorado, poor things. And the bisciuts are rocks. ---------------------------------------- You can also forget real hush puppies and catfish fries. Also, bean soup with ham in it cooked in a big kettle over an open fire. Sigh!....but they are good at BBQ! Bill | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 57 Registered: 9-2006 |
Cath2 wrote: ìOne residue from Adventism within myself, is being too hard on myself, self-doubting, and not leaving and praying how I am to God and his continuing transformation--growing up in Jesus-- of me in Christ and Christ in me. I have found that the more I pray for Christ to transform me and my faults and pray for the difficult people in my life, the more love and grace I have for them, and the more I can love my neighbor.î I too was suffering from self doubt and being hard on myself, although not as a result of coming out of Adventism but from fear of not being able to ìMeasure upî to what people expected of me. That causes suffering and inner turmoil you would not believe. One morning the Holy Spirit spoke to my spirit and said ìyou are trying to please people and not meî ìOuchî now I began to pray about this problem and to meet it head on. Now as I began to wrestle with this problem some of these things have occurred in my daily walk with him. 1. My desire to serve him and lift him up has increased. 2. I do not have the inner turmoil that I had plaguing me before. 3. I have found peace you wouldnít believe. 4. My fear of people is leaving. If I make a mistake in my dealing with others I have a deep determination to leave it with Jesus and proceed on. Now this all being a recent thing, I am still dealing with it to an extent. I am not completely over the problems the Lord brought to my attention but I am going through them. One thing I have found, generally he will not lift you over the problems, he will take you through them and be with you all the way. There are times when he will carry you over something if necessary. The miracle of going through or being carried over is still a miracle. My Sister was murdered and when this took place he literally and supernaturally swooped me up and carried me for 14 days. So there are times when he will do that. He ìBufferedî my emotions through that time of trouble and I was able to function through that time when my Mom and Dad needed me to be strong. I have been saved 35 years. Now some are going to think ìHow can he be so messed up after 35 years?î all I can say is ìheís still working on meî. I have still got ìGritsî and I hate grits. I am still hard on myself but now in a different way, I desire to root out the things that are not pleasing to him. I am ìdeep miningî if you will, or is it the Lord that is doing the ìdeep mining? One thing 35 years has taught me is that when he says ìI will never leave you nor forsake youî he means it. He counts hairs as well as grits. He took our imperfection on the cross with him and brought us his peace and Salvation, yours and my ìGritsî have been paid for in full. He is enough. Is it any wonder he calls us sheep? We return to the fold with cuts, tangled fur, fevered eyes, sore mouths from eating briars, but there is the master Shepard inspecting every detail, pours his oil of gladness on the wounds, proffers his cup of water and we drink deeply and then he lays himself down across the door of the sheepfold and guards us, our Sabbath rest is in knowing we are his sheep and no intruder will ever again enter in, not Adventism, nor false prophets, nor anything else. He truly is our good Shepard. Yep, I be from the south and I just "et" | ||
| Cathy2 Registered user Username: Cathy2 Post Number: 210 Registered: 2-2006 |
'One morning the Holy Spirit spoke to my spirit and said ìyou are trying to please people and not meî ' Yes! You mentioned the Master Shepherd. I have a picture of Jesus as the Good Shepherd, carrying a sheep, and his eyes look right at you. A few months ago, I was praying over a very difficult grief and people in my life, and I looked at the picture. Then, it was like he directly asked me in my spirit "Are you TRULY going to follow ME?" I couldn't help but say "yes" in a very serious way. The picture is always by my computer and anytime I see it, I am reminded of the shepherd verses in the Gospels and Psalms 23; that he is the one I follow; and he is the one who matters, including his opinion; he is the one whom I can trust 100% and whom loves me, purely, without the messes humans make of it. Later, I read what someone wrote, "He carries the entire, whole sheep, not just the hide!" All of us, body, mind, emotions, soul, spirit. I am so sorry about your sister, River. My deceased husband's brother was murdered and I saw what that did to him and his family. They were not Christians, but God is with you and healing. It shows. You don't like grits? Oh no! Sorry I mentioned them. BTW, when I mentioned Colorado, I was speaking about resturants, not ordinary persons in their homes. MY bisciuts are like rocks; I must buy them. I gotta go 'arn' my clothes. But I don't have a spit cup on the 'arning' board like my BIL's aunt. LOL! As a conservative SDA, he tried to shield me from that, when I was 16. Be carried close to his heart (Isaiah) Cathy |
