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Cathy2
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Username: Cathy2

Post Number: 224
Registered: 2-2006
Posted on Sunday, November 12, 2006 - 2:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

~Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ~
Galations. 6:2

It has been too many decades, since I was an SDA, that I cannot recall how I mentally dealt with this verse (with mental gymnastics), when I read Galations, if at all dealing with it. Nor what anyone around me explained about it in Adventist-speak.

Does anyone know how Adventists would respond to this verse? What they might say?

I am curious because I wonder what traditional Adventist response (I think canned and programmed because that was what my responses were like to others about non-SDA stuff, when I was a child and teen) my SDA family might give. A situation might come up, someday, when I or one of my children might give this verse to one of them, when they preach a
hyper-legalistic Sabbath to us, again.

One family really, really pushes that to my kids, when they are at their cousin's home or at Grandma's house. My children respect their beliefs and bend over backwards for them (Like not watching TV or doing laundry, when they truly need to, not asking them for meat, even though my youngest is allergic to soy). But this family asks my kids not to read their own books (They are quietly reading to themselves and they are decent books) nor listen--with headphones--to their own music (It is decent music) or talk about secular (to the SDA's) subjects, etc.. My 10 y/o complies, but my older teens, usually, do not, going into another room to do their own, quiet thing. (So they are viewed as rebellious and I am a bad mother) Then the SDA family gets nervous and afraid that they are sinning because someone around them is breaking the Sabbath in their home or even just around themselves in Grandma's house. Not even their own house! It is a no-win situation. No matter what my kids do, someone is frustrated and someone's boundaries are crossed. (Many Adventists are good at that. I had to learn about boundaries--mine and others's-- as a young adult, after I left Adventism.)

It is sooo oppressive. And the controlling, angers (at not being able to control others with the Sabbath, food and other rules and regulations) and fear are horribly sad and really makes it mark on all that family's personalities in other areas of their lives and interrelations with people. It has made a distinct disconnection with my children. They do not like to visit anymore, which is tragic, for they all were so close when our kids were real little and that family were less rigid.

All this bothers my heart all the time, but I cannot see anything I can do about it (I cannot change them; only myself), except pray, teach my kids to try to compromise where they can and give agape love, respect, and have good manners and tone no matter what. They do try, but I sure do hear their frustrations and questions, when they come home. And, from the teens, the opposing verses they want to give back to the Sabbath rules, but do not, for fear of being thought disrespectful. They do, somewhat, argue verses with their cousins, though. I've told my kids that connecting with them in a personal way will do more and to try to not lose the connection with their cousins, throughout their lifetime. Who knows, perhaps, their cousins might become enlightened, someday, and know they could count on my kid's understanding and hearts. Hostility and resentments would kill that.

All that Sabbathing I described is a burden placed on others.

Thank you for any input and for 'listening'~
Cathy
Mwh
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Post Number: 284
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Posted on Sunday, November 12, 2006 - 8:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow poor children :-( I pray that they may be able to bond with those enslaved by SDA and somehow tell them the truth and that they may be set free in Christ Jesus. Amen.

Its so good that you pray, keep on grounding your children in the truth and point them to the love of Jesus Christ.

Jesus you are my great and wonderful Sabbath!
Raven
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Post Number: 624
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Posted on Sunday, November 12, 2006 - 10:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cathy, I feel for you. That oppressiveness can even be seen between conservative SDA's with slightly different standards from each other regarding Sabbath compliance. I've seen it plenty even while an SDA, and don't know of any immediate solution, other than to not visit on Sabbath.
Raven
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Posted on Sunday, November 12, 2006 - 10:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As far as how SDA's might respond to the Galatians 6:2 verse, I honestly never noticed it until our last year in the SDA church as we were processing out. Around that time, we had an SDA family over for dinner after church and were playing a Bible board game. It asked, "According to Galatian 6:2 how do we fulfill the law of Christ?" Our guest answered "By keeping the 10 Commandments" - that was not the correct answer!
Agapetos
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Posted on Monday, November 13, 2006 - 12:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm praying for everyone involved, Cathy.

Raven, you're right. Whenever the word "commandments" pops up, to Adventist it automatically equals "the Ten Commandments". We wouldn't have thought of Galatians 6:2 in response to Christ saying, "Keep My commands" in John. We would've thought more in a "vertical" commandment-keeping way -- in other words, commandments as they relate to our status with God. Paul's direction in Gal.6:2, is a reflection of Christ's commandment in John 13-15, and it is not about our status with God, but rather His heart's desire that we love one another. Bearing one another's burdens is something that---if done from a commandment-keeping perspective---is done primarily for the sake of "obeying the commandment", not primarily
for the sake of our suffering brother or sister who desperately needs relief from his/her burden. Having taken care of the "sin" problem, Christ now directs us to care about others and love them more than we worry about earning or measuring up to salvation.
Cathy2
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Post Number: 225
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Posted on Monday, November 13, 2006 - 3:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you so much for your prayers!

Through the years, I have pointed out to my kids how burdened this family is and that they are not truly happy people, although they always put on a front of happiness (Recall our 'Adventist Lifestyle Witness'; we had to show the world how great Adventism was 24/7, when anyone was looking? Our demeanor, our faces had to witness to the world happy, peaceful Adventist Lifestyle. So much pressure on kids and a family; at least, for ours, growing up. Then things exploded at home). My older kids would point out to me (I hadn't said a word about this) how their smiles and faces looked so plastic and they acted like happy robots, saying all these platitudes and the same verses, over and over. "It's like they are not real people", I heard from both older kids, to date.

Since this family lives out of town, it hasn't been possible to keep my kids from not visiting on Sabbath in their home or when they come for a visit at Grandma's house here. Often, they have wanted to see their cousins and the aunt oppressed them...then one cousin grew up and began to, also.

I think, keeping in my upper mind--and reminding my kids--to pray for my family and to remember that they are the ones, who are truly oppressed and burdened, is the main thing to do. My children and I are free, even as we still need to grow in Christ, we are free from that bondage.

Thank you~

Sister in Christ,
Cathy
Mwh
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Post Number: 289
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Posted on Monday, November 13, 2006 - 4:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"It's like they are not real people", Cathy

I think that so many SDA's are longing to share their problems and worries, but can't do that in the SDA Church because of fear, because they have to keep up appearance. Something which I think can draw SDA's to Christ is when they see that in a Christian group we can be honest about our problems, we can talk about intimate things without being guilt loaded.

"Whenever the word "commandments" pops up, to Adventist it automatically equals "the Ten Commandments"" Agapetos

Your right, yesterday when we were reading Romans, talking about the law, and that Adam and Eve was commanded to not eat the fruit, she was going on about that it was not a command but a test, took some time to point to her that the scripture plainly tells us that God commanded Adam:

"Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who was a pattern of the one to come." Romans 5:14

In Christ
Agapetos
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Posted on Monday, November 13, 2006 - 5:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Interestingly, whenever the word "Law" pops up in an eternal or continuing sense, they take it to mean "Ten Commandments". But whenever "Law" pops up in a negative or finished sense, they take it to mean "the 'ceremonial' law". Even more fascinating, some time ago I posted a question on the forum if anyone knew of any time that the word "Law" specifically referred to "the Ten Commandments". We could find only one time that "Law" referred only to the 10C. All other times it meant the "whole Law" (Exodus thru Deuteronomy), the Law as a whole -- 603 + 10 = all 613 commandments. "Law" = all 613.

(Message edited by agapetos on November 13, 2006)
River
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Post Number: 108
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Posted on Monday, November 13, 2006 - 6:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cathy,
I could not even pretend to answer that as to how Adventist see it.
~Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ~
Galations. 6:2
but I think I can tell you how I see it, you made the statement - All this bothers my heart all the time, but I cannot see anything I can do about it.
That troubles my spirit Cathy, it troubles me because you are troubled and because you bear this constant burden, this thing that never seems to get much better for you and your family and I donít have a way to offer advice or cure for the situation.
What I can do is lift you up in prayer before my Father and your Father. I have done that very thing this morning; I have been troubled in my spirit and have borne your burden up to the Father until my spirit is again at rest in the Father.
In Christ
River
Aliza
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Post Number: 72
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Posted on Monday, November 13, 2006 - 6:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This comment by Mwh is so true,

quote:

I think that so many SDA's are longing to share their problems and worries, but can't do that in the SDA Church because of fear, because they have to keep up appearance. Something which I think can draw SDA's to Christ is when they see that in a Christian group we can be honest about our problems, we can talk about intimate things without being guilt loaded.




Cathy, I can feel the hurt in your relatives as well as in you and your kids. The difference is that they don't even sense their own emotional dishonesty or need to be more transparent about their needs just as fellow humans living in a sinful world.

It sounds as if you are doing everything right: praying, being authentic and respectful. At this time probably about the only thing you can do is keep on keeping on. You can model what you've learned about how Jesus impacts your life in a so much different way now. As Mwh says, talk about issues without that heavy load of guilt.
Flyinglady
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Posted on Monday, November 13, 2006 - 9:21 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am reminded of the SDA church I attended, occasionally, in VA. I would ask for prayer for me and others. One of the ladies told my friends, R & D, to "tell Diana to quit complaining." It was then I noticed that the SDA could not admit to having problems. They always had to have an appearance of everything is okay and have those "plastic faces" on when they came to church.
Cathy, I will put you on my prayer list and all your relatives. That is so hard.
In a way, I am glad my family no longer attends the SDA church, though the beliefs still cling to them in some way. They need prayer to know God.
God is in charge and is so awesome.
Diana
Cathy2
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Post Number: 226
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Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 3:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Again, thank you for all your hearts and prayers. I know they will be effective and upholding.

I think the holiday season must have made this come up to my mind more so, right now. Visits are a comin'! The teens have already expressed their desire not to be around the aunt on THG. at grandma's house. I don't want to be without my son on THG. (he is on his own) and no one wants to be without grandma, who might get more failing anytime. My sister and her one daughter do not like my son, who is everything they think is not SDA and externally 'religious'. So, it is all up in the air and I am stuck between everyone's unrest. We will, probably, take my mom out on another day, and spare everyone from their feelings getting offended. It is so unnecessary or should be.

I can look back and see myself as an emotionally delayed, plastic, non-authentic SDA. Then in my late 20's and early 30's, I was blessed to be in a church, where they encouraged one to be themselves, appropriately, and heal. Since I have been on both sides, now, I hurt for the others, who are stuffed in. Emotions will out, eventually, and they come out in not so pretty ways, when denied. Sometimes, physically, like heart disease, etc..

Diana, I hear that about the "quit complaining" thing! I heard that from some family, when I was younger. And the issues I was talking about were pretty heavy and hurtful. Support was not very forthcoming. It was lonely in my younger years. I turned to others in Christianity.

Letting go and letting God,
Cathy
Flyinglady
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Post Number: 3028
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Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 4:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cathy,
A prayer for you: Father in Heaven, You are the I AM, the Creator and have such other wonderful names and I am so thankful. Thank you for Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Be with Cathy now as she prepares for Thanksgiving and Christmas. Give her a way to have an enjoyable day and not hurt her children and her Mom. YOu know best how to do this God, so show Cathy what to do. Fill her heart with your love and what ever happens may you came shining through her and her children. You are so awesome God and I thank you for answering this prayer.
Cathy, I have a sister, who at this time is not talking to me. She lives in CA, our younger sister and I live in NV. This sister is 3 years older than me. When she comes to NV she stays with the younger sister. I used to think that our differences were just of opinion and way of life, but I see now, that it is spiritual warfare. Satan will use anything to cause strife. So I just pray for her and leave her to God. Our youngest sister talks to me and to the other sister and I do not try to tell her not to. So, I can identify, just a little, with what you are saying.
Diana
Colleentinker
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Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 10:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cathy, I'm so sorry for the tension and heartache you face and for the clarity it takes on as the holidays approach.

God is faithful to hold our hearts in trust and peace as we surrender our off-the-wall, oppositional loved ones to Him. Being identified in Him guards our hearts against shattering.

With prayers for you and yours,
Colleen
Susans
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Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 6:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cathy,

I've returned to this thread many times and my heart hurts for you. I really have no words to say other than what has already been expressed here. It's so difficult when these things divide families, and there is no easy answer. I pray for you and your children that God will make His presence real to you and hold you close.

Warmly,
Susan
Cathy2
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Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 7:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Susan,

Thank you for your words. And Colleen, too. I always feel stronger, when you post, Colleen.

Susan--The dividing of families...

Through the years, I have often told persons--who have never been SDA's--that leaving, after being a 4th generationer (new word there), is like an orthodox Jew or Muslim leaving their old faith to take up Christ, his cross and resurrection. Very often for some, anyway. The family can be very rejecting or some other things, even as they try to pretend that they are not. The pretense is too transparent. (Especially, when rude words come out like "That jewelry is really ugly!", to even children) The self-righteousness and pride I have seen is legion.

(But I have had my own types of pride, too, especially, since I grew up the way I did...residues, which God sifts as he heals, also)

I cannot say that all SDA's are like this to Formers, but, in my exprience, I have seen and felt the brunt of too many, who are.

BTW, it was not why I left. I left for what I learned of Christ, in scripture. I remain out of it because of what I continue to learn of and grow in Christ. It is never-ending. I continue to know nothing, once I think I know something.

One of the thundering concepts, commands and convictions I learned from Christ was to love my neighbor, share burdens, besides loving my God.

Thank you all for sharing in mine. River, your intersessory prayer is precious to me. I relate to what you wrote on another thread of how you pray. Thank you for your older wisdom and experience.

Even if I do not post a lot about it, I do pray for all of you and feel for all your situations, too.

Love in Christ,
Cathy
Cathy2
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Post Number: 231
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Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 8:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Raven and Ramone,

Thank you for your Galations and commandments input. I agree with you and your experiences, when I look back. I truly believe that I would have answered the 10C, if I played a Bible game like that, too. I knew absolutely nothing else; it was all I had.

My dad always says that to follow Jesus is to keep his commandments (which he thinks I do not do, since I do not keep the Sabbath). But, apparently, he never reads the rest of 1 John, where it says that the commandments of Christ are to believe in him and to love one another. I am pretty sure that my dad only quotes scripture where Ellen quotes it and understands it only as Ellen taught it. When one tells him of something else, he kind of goes into some fugue state, like his mind wandered off. It is truly strange to sit there and watch it. Later, the Ellen tape plays, again, like there was no conversing whatsoever. There was no conversing between two people; there is only Ellen.

I no longer speak of spiritual things with my father. When I try to tell him of the Gospel, he tells me that even the demons believe. So I just pray, now, and act my faith. He will not live much longer and I truly believe that he has never known the true, forgiving Christ and that he lives in anguish of spirit, right now.

This is just one example of why I say that Adventism is tragic. Because of what I see in the personal, individaul, wounded lifetime stories.

In Christ and prayer,
Cathy
Flyinglady
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Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 9:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I will add your Father to my prayer list. It is so sad to see people who are supposed to be Christians, not know who Jesus is and what the gospel really is.
I have seen that sadness in the faces of my sisters who were once baptized Adventist and now do not practice anything, but do not give it up. It is tragic. So I continue to pray for them.
Diana

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