| Author | Message | ||
| Walkonwater Registered user Username: Walkonwater Post Number: 138 Registered: 9-2006 |
Praise the Lord! Yep! The land deal finally closed in spite of the fact that the seller's agent tried every way possible to kill the deal. (She had two other offers in which she could double her commission.) Our whole prayer group was praying this one through to conclusion since we want to use the property for a school of evangelism. The school will not be the typical self supporting Adventist type school. Those are usually based on one of two models. 1. "The end times are here and we gotta get ready so let's study Daniel and Revelation and get ourselves perfect so we will be ready when Jesus comes" type of school. 2. "We gotta study everything Ellen White says about health, make sure we wear our woolen underwear, and learn to do hot and cold treatments to solve all our medical woes" type school. Mercifully, our school will not adopt either of those models. Instead, it will be a true school of Evangelism which starts with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and our place and standing in Him and Him alone. And out of that dynamic, vital relationship we go in His power as ambassadors for the King into the world next door as witnesses for who He is and what He can do in a life surrendered to Him. The Lord has graciously given us 8.7 very private, gorgeous acres with 1000+ feet of frontage on a year round navigable river (We can actually walk out the front door and hop in a boat and go the 125 miles to Portland, if we wish). It is totally private yet it is only 2 minutes to Interstate 5 and 18 minutes to Oregon's second largest commercial center, Eugene/Springfield. We are excited! WalkOnWater tenblo0@hotmail.com | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 4967 Registered: 12-2003  |
Are you shaping your school somewhat on the pattern or premise of the ARISE school of evangelism in Michigan? And by-the-by, the 1888 Message is not the Biblical gospel of God. It has a better-articulated premise, but underneath it denies the truth of the forensic atonement of Jesus and the completely FINISHED work of Jesus in his death, burial, and resurrection. The 1888 message as expounded by Short and Wieland makes Jesus' death an example and a demonstration rather than a singular, vital, necessary work without which God could not forgive usóa circumstance set in place by His own sovereign power . Colleen | ||
| Walkonwater Registered user Username: Walkonwater Post Number: 139 Registered: 9-2006 |
Dear Colleen: I have never heard of the ARISE school of evangelism. Can you fill me in? Thanks. WalkOnWater tenblo0@hotmail.com | ||
| Timmy Registered user Username: Timmy Post Number: 143 Registered: 8-2006  |
wow http://www.ariseinstitute.com/ | ||
| Loneviking Registered user Username: Loneviking Post Number: 505 Registered: 7-2000 |
Yikes! $4,000 to take the course! Is it just me, or is the SDA church increasingly focusing on including a study of Romans along with Daniel and Revelation? I shudder to think of the hatchet job they must do on Romans to support their theology. What I find interesting is that SDA's focus on a 'book knowledge' approach to evangelism. It doesn't seem to work all that well as most of the North American churches have declining membership. On the other hand, I've been in several evangelical churches who didn't have all of the fancy bookwork. Instead, they focused on a solid grounding for the believers, teaching right out of the Bible and let the Holy Spirit do the rest. These are the churches that were growing very quickly. I just find the contrast between the two startling. Congrats, WOW, on getting a tough deal closed. I know that feeling of 'holding my breath' wondering if a deal was going to close. | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 315 Registered: 6-2006  |
(I wonder why they don't identify themselves as SDA in the "about us" section?) Walk, you said "Leigh Anne says I am only here to argue." What I really said was "With all due respect, it really seems is if you're in here just to argue." Saying that you're only here do to it, (accusing) and saying that it "seems" to me (wondering) like you're here to do it are two different things. Walk, I'm really not mud slinging, or accusing. I wasn't even going to address this, but I noticed that you misrepresented what I said, and I don't want you to get the wrong idea. I still get the feeling that your initial reason for being here has changed, (which is your business) but I do wish you well. Honestly, all the people here are kind, and love the Lord as much as you do. No one here is trying to catfight or have a Jerry Springer mudball contest. Leigh Anne | ||
| Seekr777 Registered user Username: Seekr777 Post Number: 611 Registered: 1-2003  |
Leigh Anne, they do identify some of the staff as SDA ministers and some of the courses are presented from an SDA perspective. IE: class on EG White and Revelation/Daniel as the basis for the beginning of our SDA church are mentioned. Your right it is not stated in the "about us" portion. Richard rtruitt@mac.com | ||
| Walkonwater Registered user Username: Walkonwater Post Number: 140 Registered: 9-2006 |
To answer your question Colleen, Our School of evangelism will be quite different than ARISE. We will be Adventist but will start in a different place than other Adventist ministries start. In short, it will be God based/Christ based, rather than prophecy/end-times based. It will be a fresh new look at Christianity. In God's power we will strive to go straight down the center of the road between God's love and justice without watering down the gospel to make people like us. We will offend some Adventists because we will not use the same tired words, ideas and terminology (and in some cases, theology) that have been used for the last 150 years. We will offend Former Adventists because we will not totally brand Adventism as a work of Satan. We will discover again, for the first time... 1. Who is God? 2. Who is Jesus? 3. Who am I? 4. Why should I care? 5. What is the Gospel? 5. What difference does that make? 6. The First and Second Covenant and why I should care about a couple musty old wills. 7. Is there more to God than words in a book? 8. How can I experience Him personally? 9. What is the fight of faith? 10. What is the switch that turns on God's power in my life? 11. What's so amazing about grace? 12. Is the SDA Church a ìfor prophetî or a ìnon-prophetî organization? 13. Living what we've learned. 14. Preaching the gospel even if we have to use words. Obviously this is a very abbreviated list but it should give an idea of the direction we hope to go. WalkOnWater tenblo0@hotmail.com | ||
| Timmy Registered user Username: Timmy Post Number: 144 Registered: 8-2006 |
Seriously now, did she really say something about "wearing woolen underware?" ?????????????????????? | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 563 Registered: 10-2002  |
Interesting beginnings, Walk.  I wonder, would you tell people that the Ten Commandments are the words of the Old Covenant? Anyhow, glad things are going well. Let me know when you're ready to tackle question #4b and question #5. I'd suggest trying to answer as briefly as possible, based on scriptures, and then we can expand later. Blessings in Jesus, Ramone P.S. Not all Formers "totally brand Adventism as the work of Satan"... for one, I believe it's a lot more complicated than that. But remember the caution I gave awhile ago to my fellow formers to listen and to not pigeonhole you or stereotype you? Please try not to do the same to us. Thanks. | ||
| Walkonwater Registered user Username: Walkonwater Post Number: 141 Registered: 9-2006 |
Timmy, As far as I know, she never spoke of woolen underwear but I do know a group who does recommends it. I think it has to do with natural fiber vs synthetic. WalkOnWater tenblo0@hotmail.com PS, If I want natural, I'll take cotton, thank you. | ||
| Walkonwater Registered user Username: Walkonwater Post Number: 142 Registered: 9-2006 |
Yes Ramone: I am working on it. It is becoming a fascinating study. I am learning a lot! Just a hint as to the direction I am going - As we have seen, both the First and Second Covenants were WILLS. To understand the big picture when it comes to the those covenants, we must understand how a will works. Without that knowledge, it is very easy to get entirely mixed up on this subject. As for stereotyping, you are right. I guess it seems the vast majority on this site seem to view Adventism as deceptive/demonic and the "official" "Proclamation" position appears to be that Adventism is so shot through with deception and error that it is "unsalvagable". But your advice is well taken and I will do my best to bear that in mind as I respond. God bless, WalkOnWater tenblo0@hotmail.com | ||
| Loneviking Registered user Username: Loneviking Post Number: 506 Registered: 7-2000 |
Just a hint as to the direction I am going - As we have seen, both the First and Second Covenants were WILLS. ----------------------------------------- Before you go too far in that direction, let me point out to you that a will does not have a complementary exchange of promises. An exchange of promises between two (or more) parties is a contract. The Old Covenant had an exchange of promises; God said 'Do this and I will be your God', the Jews said 'All that you have said we will do'. The New Covenant was an agreement among the Trinity. God the FAther saying 'Your (God the Sons') sacrifice I will accept as payment'; God the Son saying 'thy will be done'. The problem is, as you may be starting to see, is that the legal system of the Jews wasn't quite like ours. The dividing line between 'wills' and 'contracts' was much fuzzier and contained elements of both in it. So, be careful about trying to compare that ancient system with our modern one. They are different systems with similar concepts, but different ways of carrying out those concepts. Bill | ||
| Loneviking Registered user Username: Loneviking Post Number: 507 Registered: 7-2000 |
As for stereotyping, you are right. I guess it seems the vast majority on this site seem to view Adventism as deceptive/demonic and the "official" "Proclamation" position appears to be that Adventism is so shot through with deception and error that it is "unsalvagable". --------------------------------------------- Tell me something, WOW. In this new evangelism school of yours, when are you going to tell potential converts that you are SDA? When you are getting ready to baptize them, are you then going to tell them that Baptismal vow #13 includes an affirmation that the Spirit of Prophecy was given to the SDA church and is still a continuing and authoritative source? And if, somehow for some reason, you manage to tiptoe around these key pillars of Adventism and get these folks baptized---what happens when they move away from your area to another, traditional congregation? How are you going to explain to them your selective approach to doctrine that disagrees with the teaching of most SDA churches? How are you going to shield them from what the SDA church officially teaches when they start getting 'The Adventist World'? I can't see any way that your approach will be anything but deceptive. Either you use deception as to what Adventism is to induce them to join the church. Or, you deceptively try to convince them that Adventism and EGW have been misused and that they can be good SDA's while ignoring the Baptismal vows that they must take to join the church. I've been down this road before WOW. I was there at the very first service of Celebration Center in Colton with Dan Simpson. It didn't work. Many in the congregation became Universalists, and Dan eventually ran off with the lady pastor of Riverside Community church---which was a similar SDA experiment. Anything that isn't grounded on 'sola scriptura, sola fide, sola graci' is bound to fail. Bill | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 566 Registered: 10-2002 |
Hi Walk, Piggybacking a little on Bill's first comment, I would also agree that we need to be careful about imposing a modern framework (modern last wills & testaments in Western society) on ancient documents, particularly ancient covenants such as those between a vassal and a suzerain. Additionally, the "will" metaphor is used primarily only in chapter 9 of the book of Hebrews. The Greek word in Chapter 9 for "will" (as in a last will) is a modification of the word for "covenant", and can mean both. But the normal unmodified word for "covenant" is used throughout Hebrews, and throughout the Bible. Indeed, the notion of "covenants" is so extensive throughout the Bible that it is difficult to understand the purpose of "Israel" and also of salvation itself without exploring what "covenant" is. In short, the "will" analogy is a smaller one within the larger framework of the notion of "covenant". The main thing is "covenant", and in chapter 9, the author of Hebrews uses a "will" to support the larger idea of "covenant" -- not the other way around. ***** One direction for study, research & prayer I might suggest is identifying the parties & participants of the covenants, both old & new. I'm going to get excited if I say any more, so I'll stop now. Besides, it's between you and Him, and me shouting it is no good. It's much more joyful for each of us to find it individually. God is awesome and faithful. Woohoo! Deep, great and gracious blessings to you in Jesus Christ! Ramone | ||
| Walkonwater Registered user Username: Walkonwater Post Number: 143 Registered: 9-2006 |
Dear Lone: You say: "Anything that isn't grounded on 'sola scriptura, sola fide, sola graci' is bound to fail." My response: Wal*Mart is not grounded in any of those "solas" and it is far from failing. Are you sure you meant "anything"? (grin) WalkOnWater tenblo0@hotmail.com | ||
| Susans Registered user Username: Susans Post Number: 158 Registered: 8-2006 |
Walmart is not grounded on those "solas" but interestingly, they are failing to follow Sam Walton's values and his desire to keep Walmart's "family friendly" image. Walmart has joined the Gay and Lesbian Chamber of Commerce, agreeing to give generous financial help to that organization, donating 5% of online sales linked from a gay site to them, and also was selling online a book for young pre-teen girls promoting lesbianism. Walmart has also donated 60,000 dollars to the homosexual activist group called "Out and Equal". So, I suppose I would say that maybe Walmart is not "failing" financially, but failing in other, more eternal ways. Christians are taking notice of this and Walmart did remove the book from their online catalog after their protests. Susan (Message edited by SusanS on November 19, 2006) | ||
| Susans Registered user Username: Susans Post Number: 159 Registered: 8-2006 |
Ramone said: One direction for study, research & prayer I might suggest is identifying the parties & participants of the covenants, both old & new. That's a great suggestion, and how I started in my own study of the covenants. I would recommend it too. Susan | ||
| Bigal Registered user Username: Bigal Post Number: 43 Registered: 9-2006  |
Walk, You responded to Bill with "My response: Wal*Mart is not grounded in any of those "solas" and it is far from failing." In fact many things not of God may appear to be thriving. All will fail in the end without God and our acceptance of His grace through Jesus Christ. Alan | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 697 Registered: 8-2004  |
And, for what its worth, Walmart does not claim to be a (or the) Christian Church. Mary |
