| Author | Message | ||
| Cforrester Registered user Username: Cforrester Post Number: 36 Registered: 7-2004 |
I was browsing RevivalSermons.org and a poster suggested that Walter Rae returned to Adventism. Any truth or is this just more of the Adventist tradition of disinformation? Here is the quote: It is bad enough to see people from other denominations who cannot/will not see the truth concerning the Law, the Sabbath etc. It is very sad to see Saventh-day Adventists come to the place where they reject the Sabbath, the Law, the Sanctuary doctrine, the SOP, etc. This seems to be accelerating. At the same time there is evidence that there are the beginnings of the latter rain in places around the world. A friend just did a series as a lay evangelist in Cuba. He got word yesterday that 50 have been baptized and about 100 more are asking to prepare for baptism, including a Pentecostal pastor and about 50 of his congregation. | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 706 Registered: 8-2004  |
Here is what Walter Rae has to say for himself: http://truthorfables.com/Rea_Who_Lied.htm | ||
| Cforrester Registered user Username: Cforrester Post Number: 37 Registered: 7-2004 |
Thank you. | ||
| Seekr777 Registered user Username: Seekr777 Post Number: 614 Registered: 1-2003  |
I think everyone on both sides need to be careful of our facts. I've been aware that Walter Rae has attended an SDA church in central California for a number of years close to where my parents live. It is not my parents home church but I'm visiting my parents for Thanksgiving and was able to talk to someone else who has known Walter for years. He in fact attends and is a member of an SDA church near my parents. I have no first hand information on his feelings about the book he wrote (The White Lie) so will not make any comment on that quote. The person I questioned is not one of my parents but someone who has known Walter for years and who I've also known for years so I trust him. It took a number of years before Walter's memebership request was accepted but I personally know the church where he attends. My guess is that his opinion of Mrs. White has not changed but I don't know that for a personal fact. We need to keep each other in prayer that He will lead us and direct us. God is working in each of our lives in wonderful and mysterious ways, Walter's heart, my heart, and each person here. In Christ, Richard | ||
| Cforrester Registered user Username: Cforrester Post Number: 38 Registered: 7-2004 |
Yes, facts are important. I used to joke that the name of EGW's largest book was "Ellen White Says" - most of which she either never said, or the quote was out of context. She has suffered much at the hands of her zealous proponents. Often I'd heard Adventists say that Steve Green keeps the Sabbath. So I asked him last time he was in town. He laughed and said that he'd heard that too, but it was not true. In today's world it is just too easy to verify facts if one cares to know the truth. I love the intro that Luke wrote: it seemed fitting for me as well, having investigated everything carefully from the beginning, to write it out for you in consecutive order, most excellent Theophilus; so that you may know the exact truth about the things you have been taught. Lk 1:3,4 Richard, your last sentence is very nicely worded. | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 707 Registered: 8-2004 |
Richard, That's an interesting bit of information. I'm curious why it's not more widely known. I hope that which ever side of the fence he's on he's not ashamed to give witness to what he believes. The letter that I posted a link to, so far as I know, was written by him, and was re-endorsed in 2004. Sounds like a rather mixed message between the letter and the membership report! On the other hand when I was baptized as a teenager, I asked the pastor baptizing me about the statement in the vows about the "Spirit of Prophecy" and he told me that that was the one vow that I did could either accept or not accept out of the whole list. So I have first hand knowledge that people do not have to accept EGW to join the church (at the time I did accept her, btw). Whichever way the truth lies, it is better to know it than to stick to false impressions gained from who knows where. As Jesus promised, "Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free!" Blessings, Mary | ||
| Seekr777 Registered user Username: Seekr777 Post Number: 615 Registered: 1-2003 |
I was trying to be careful what I said. I heard more information but it is not confirmed (some was personal and just about him as a person as my friend had grown to know him) and trying to keep to the basic facts of what I know I can verify and is appropriate to the discussion.  I don't believe anyone here was inappropriate in what they said about Walter. We all seek truth, either truth about others we hear about, but most importantly truth about HIM ! ! ! In Him, richard rtruitt@mac.com | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 4994 Registered: 12-2003  |
Here is also a letter Rae wrote which he sent to us to publish in Proclamatiom. You can read it here: http://rtinker.powweb.com/Proclamation2004_NovDec.pdf I've spoken to Walter Rae several times. He is still Adventist, but he has not discontinued his documentation of Ellen's plagiarism. He recently sent us over 500 pages of page-by-page analysis of The Great Cotroversy. I haven't had time to read it, but Rae told Richard on the phone that nearly every page has borrowed material on it. My own conclusion is that Rae's confidence in Ellen's prophetic reliability is goneóbut he's emotionally connected to Adventism. I don't personally know where he stands in relationship to the Sabbath, etc. In short, he has not recanted; he stands by his work. At the same time he is still Adventistóeven though, you will see in the letter to which I linked, he still sees the church as having been unfair in its unfulfilled promises to him. Colleen | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 878 Registered: 4-2000  |
Interestingly, as Providence would have it, Richard Pfeifer was a ministerial intern under Walter Rea during his findings about the extensive plagiarism of Ellen White. Richard is now the Project Manager for People to People International Ministries in Texas. He has an excellent piano CD available as well. More than a year ago, Richard Pfeifer was interviewed by Bob George on their daily People to People radio program. Richard explained what "life under the veil" was like in Adventism. Dennis Fischer | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 2328 Registered: 3-2005 |
Like Richard, I knew of Rea's attending the Turlock SDA church. But as far as I know he never gave up his membership voluntarily. However, I was able to talk to Walter Rea personally as well 2 years ago at a San Diego Forum. I think he does regret the tone of the White Lie which was self-defeating as people wouldn't give him an audience. However, because of his EGW research he now has a very low view of scriptural inspiration as well, and my heart is saddened by this. I don't know where Rea stands with the Lord, but I continue to pray for him based on what I know. We know that Robert Brinsmead shipwrecked the faith entirely and now doesn't even believe that Jesus existed, and he definitely denies the deity of Christ. Stan | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 1514 Registered: 7-2003 |
Interesting about Steve Green, Cforrester. B had made that statement to me too to 'prove' Godly people DO obey the 4th commandment. I tried to find out on his website if he was SDA, but never could verify anything. | ||
| Mwh Registered user Username: Mwh Post Number: 339 Registered: 4-2006  |
"More than a year ago, Richard Pfeifer was interviewed by Bob George on their daily People to People radio program. Richard explained what "life under the veil" was like in Adventism." Dennis Do you know if its possible to download that broadcast? In Christ | ||
| Seekr777 Registered user Username: Seekr777 Post Number: 616 Registered: 1-2003 |
Stan I agree that Rea did not give up his membership voluntarily. What I was told was he asked to be accepted back into memebership at two different SDA churches a least three times total over a period of time. Richard | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 328 Registered: 6-2006  |
I really don't understand how Mr. Rae could continue a membership when the church and Ellen are so interchangable. I would think that each week that he hears a new "Sister White Says" during the sermon that he would think "oh yeah, she stole that from Milton, or she stole that from William Hanna." That would be very confusing... Leigh Anne | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5008 Registered: 12-2003 |
Leigh Anne, yes. I agree. Colleen | ||
| Alnadean Registered user Username: Alnadean Post Number: 26 Registered: 8-2005 |
Hi all, This question is for Stan- where is that information on Brinsmead? It is sad to know that one can get so totally off track. It is true- we wrestle not against 'flesh and blood' Al-Nadean | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 2347 Registered: 3-2005 |
Alnadean, Here is a link with info on Robert Brinsmead: http://www.biblebb.com/files/tonyqa/tc02-116.htm Here is an excerpt: In the early 1970s Brinsmead edited a fine Puritan/Calvinistic journal named Present Truth. But by the late '70s Brinsmead's own tastes were running to neo-orthodoxy, and the journal was retitled Verdict. Brinsmead finally abandoned "organized Christianity" altogether, labeling Christianity itself a "cult." More recently he has published articles claiming that the supernatural Jesus of the New Testament never even existed. His current views amount to a kind of gnosticismóa tragic journey's end for a man who has enjoyed every spiritual advantage but evidently never really believed (cf. Heb. 6:4-6). According to this Web page, "He currently lives in Australia, where he lives as a simple farmer, shunning the trappings of success." That's hardly the full story, though. Brinsmead's "farm" holdings include Tropical Fruit Worldó"one of the largest tropical fruit plantations and research parks in the world" and a popular tourist attraction on Australia's Gold Coast. Spiritually, however, he has made it clear that he is bankrupt." ----------------------------------------------- This is indeed very sad, as I was influenced heavily by Brinsmead when he was spot on with the gospel. Stan | ||
| Alnadean Registered user Username: Alnadean Post Number: 27 Registered: 8-2005 |
Hi Stan, Thanks for taking the time to send the link. I asked about Brinsmead because I have read extensively about his work/life and have largely admired him. The last info I had on him was him owning an amusement park of some kind and that article further stated that he was somewhat 'demented' someone had seen him- ofcourse this was an adventist article- so I considered the whole analysis- well skewed. I have read the excerpt from the link and sadly they have not given any direct links to those 'published' articles about his religious stance- so unfortunately for me I am going to consider it heresy until I read from an authorative source. Incidentally, the link from the page about his life as a farmer connects you to 'direct tv'. I'm sure you will agree with me that anyone can say anything, but it doesn't make it a fact. A part of me is hoping it is indeed a tale and not actual facts. Don't be too quick to write him off. I know I won't Thanks again! Al-Nadean | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 2356 Registered: 3-2005 |
Al-Nadean, I pray for Brinsmead. But, if you do a search on google you will find articles from about 2003 or so, where he actually wrote an article calling the idea of the deity of Christ a total fantasy and a myth--How sad! Stan | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5066 Registered: 12-2003 |
I spoke to Brinsmead in the mid 90's when working for Adventist Today. He is definitely no longer Christian and has embraced new-age-y philosophies. You're right, though, Al-Nadean, that God is the only One who knows the details about his heart. Stan's example of praying for him is apt for us. Colleen | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 2363 Registered: 3-2005 |
Speaking of Adventist Today, here is another article on Robert Brinsmead: http://www.atoday.com/magazine/archive/1999/mayjun1999/articles/WhereIsBrinsmead.shtml And here is another article showing where Brinsmead's faith lies: http://www.freechristians.com/Robert_D_Brinsmead/the_scandal_of_joshua_ben_adam.htm Stan | ||
| Alnadean Registered user Username: Alnadean Post Number: 28 Registered: 8-2005 |
Thank you Stan for that. Haven't really digested that first link fully- the second I haven't looked at yet. I can't really comment at this point on it- will have to reread. Hi there Colleen- you know this a perfect example of why we shouldn't 'follow' anyone- except Jesus. It is sad- thsnks again Stan fpr providing me with such a quick follow up Al-Nadean |
