Holiday fallout leaving SDA Log Out | Topics | Search
Moderators | Edit Profile

Former Adventist Fellowship Forum » ARCHIVED DISCUSSIONS 5 » Holiday fallout leaving SDA « Previous Next »

  Thread Last Poster Posts Pages Last Post
Archive through November 27, 2006Susans20 11-27-06  8:13 am
Archive through November 28, 2006Susans20 11-28-06  11:20 am
  Start New Thread        

Author Message
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 5016
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 12:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

River, your thoughts above are so insightful. I found it really interesting that some of the things you said, Susan, were also said in the article in the Nov/Dec issue of Proclamation by David Dykes, the pastor of Green Acres Baptist Church in Texas. I'll put the link to it below. He ends his article with five points in which grace-based and legalism-based congregations are different. Some of the points you made, Susan, are in his article.

It's the cover story at this link:http://rtinker.powweb.com/Proclamation2006_NovDec.pdf

Very good points, Susan and River.

Colleen
Susans
Registered user
Username: Susans

Post Number: 199
Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 12:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for the link, Colleen. I'll make sure to read the article. I usually wait for the print copy to arrive (reminds me I need to go to the post office!), and haven't gotten it yet.

Susan
Susans
Registered user
Username: Susans

Post Number: 200
Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 1:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I just read the article online. It made me cry to remember the despair and legalism I experienced, and indeed partook of, in the SDA church.

I believe God put me there to cast out by the root my perfectionistic tendencies among other spirit-killing things I had both inherited and learned as a child. I had been around mostly unsafe, toxic people my entire life and it had disastrous results in my relationships and my view of God.

As God healed me of these things, he also led me out of Adventism. I still marvel at the two things happening at the same time. As I've learned to live differently, I have sometimes protected myself from "others" too strongly. I believe God is showing me once again that His compassion towards me in my weakness and legalism compels me to share His love outwardly to others who are trapped as I was. Not that I will be decimated by them, but that I can stand firm in the grace I have received, and show the same grace to others.

I feel badly for posting this here, as it was not the original point of the thread, but then again, it may as it helps us to understand and deal a little better with the problems in our leaving Adventism while being tied to those who remain.
Susan
Susans
Registered user
Username: Susans

Post Number: 201
Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 1:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I guess it's good to remember what we experienced as Adventists. I think Ramone has alluded to this. It may make it easier in dealing with those who remain without compromising our beliefs. That in NO way minimizes the hurts we have experienced from them, however, but may make it easier to understand.

Susan

(Message edited by SusanS on November 28, 2006)
River
Registered user
Username: River

Post Number: 167
Registered: 9-2006


Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 6:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Susans wrote: I guess it's good to remember what we experienced as Adventists. I think Ramone has alluded to this. It may make it easier in dealing with those who remain without compromising our beliefs. That in NO way minimizes the hurts we have experienced from them, however, but may make it easier to understand.
To all:
I have been unable to come to no other conclusion that Adventism, in general, has its root in a spirit of deceit.
And
1. That we must never associate the person with that spirit of deceit unless maybe, and I say maybe, that you can truly discern that that person has completely given himself over to that evil spirit of deceit in order to grab power or financial gain or some such.
2. That we must never consider the person to be our enemy, we must look beyond the person to the spirit behind the problem, and that our enemy is not flesh and blood.
3. What hurt you was the spirit behind the deceit the same as its hurting them.
4. You will fight a spirit of deceit with prayer, truth and the word of God or you will lose.
5. That we must learn to pray before encountering the persons if at all possible if not at least during the encounter, again, looking beyond the person.
6. I am convinced that if we are not able to recognize this spirit of deceit as the same as any of this worlds systems we will always be at a disadvantage and always on the defense or in retreat. That goes for dealing with Adventist or any other unconverted person, deceit is deceit.
Please consider the man Jesus came upon who continually cut himself and broke his chains, I believe these folk around there had him chained in order to protect him from himself and to protect themselves from attack, they probably had him bolted inside a cave or tomb and carried him food and water, I am sure they didnít enjoy doing this but it was in all probability the best answer they could come up with, the olden day rubber room if you will.
Jesus looked beyond at the spirit that held him captive. He recognized the spirit behind the problem. All the other folk saw was a crazy old coot that had lost his marbles.
What I am talking about is no different. The Adventist may not be in a rubber room but he is imprisoned in a system of deceit.
Is any of this making sense to any of you?
River
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady

Post Number: 3076
Registered: 3-2004


Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 6:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

River,
It is making perfect sense to me. I decided within a year of leaving adventism that what we are fighting is a spiritual battle. The same goes with my sister that I mentioned above.
But, just because it is a spiritual battle does not mean that I can put myself in her path so she can hit on me, verbally. I pray when I have the opportunity to write to her and pray for her in between letters.
Yes, what you wrote above makes good sense.
We do have an awesome God who will tell us what to say.
Diana
River
Registered user
Username: River

Post Number: 168
Registered: 9-2006


Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 6:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And you are absolutely right to take yourself out of the way of verbal abuse or any other form of abuse Diana, what I am talking about is the Ministry.I have to take the same action with my own younger brother. But when we take them to prayer we are going on the offense instead of the defense.whereas if we subject ourselves to abuse that puts us on the defense. A smart general will always pick the battlefield and try to obtain the high ground. You and I both hold the high ground when we pray.
Susans
Registered user
Username: Susans

Post Number: 213
Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 7:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

River,

I understand completely, as remembering how I was in Adventism was remembering the spiritual bondage I was under. It makes it easier to deal with those still in this bondage if we understand that we were there once ourselves and were helpless until freed by Jesus.

Diana, you are so correct in that we are not to put ourselves in the path of abuse, but as we are in contact with those sorts of people, as River said, we pray and understand that many times they are helpless to control themselves because of this bondage and spiritual deception.

I do try to pray before each encounter of a person who I believe is spiritually dangerous to me. For instance, my supervisor, who has NPD, when I have to interact with her I pray before EVERY encounter to remember what I am dealing with, and put up an imaginary shield in which her toxic insults, demeaning comments, and manipulation will not affect me personally. I limit my contact with her as much as possible, as I believe we should in all instances when we have to interact with others who act similarly.

For those of us who must continue to have contact with those in the spiritual bondage of Adventism, or for those involved in ministry to them, we must gird ourselves with the spiritual armor God provides, because it truly is a spiritual battle and we battle not with them, but with the spirit behind.

Susan
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady

Post Number: 3078
Registered: 3-2004


Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 8:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have to tell you what happened to me last year when the sister I have mentioned was still sending me emails that were mean. I subscribed to M. Martin's daily devotional. I received an email from this sister that was its usual nasty stuff. Later that day I received the M. Martin devotional. It was from Proverbs 26:4,"Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you will be like him yourself." It just reinforced what God had taught me on how I should answer my sister or not answer her nasty emails. It came at the right time.
God is always awesome in how He cares for us.
Diana
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 5029
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 8:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

River, what an awesome summary of understanding Adventism you have posted above. I was moved to read it. You totally get itóboth the problem with Adventism and the understanding of dealing with it. I thank God for your spiritual maturity and insight. You are a blessing to us here.

Colleen
Aliza
Registered user
Username: Aliza

Post Number: 114
Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - 5:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you, River. It's so reassurring to see those who have never been SDA come here and start to grasp the reality because it shows God is using you in special ways we can't be.

When I was being pulled out of Adventism and saw that spirit of deceit for what it was, my eyes became open to the number of pastors and higher officials who were aware of exactly what was going on. They weren't deceived. Now, I can't judge the person who says "I'm staying to work within the church" once they know the reality. But I can say I've observed the fruit of pastors who started out their ministry with passion and fire turning into mere maintenance men, careful to keep the status quo. We need to especially pray for these.

Aliza
River
Registered user
Username: River

Post Number: 169
Registered: 9-2006


Posted on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - 7:55 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you Colleen, you folk are a greater blessing to me.

Diana,
I just want to encourage you in the Lord and his strength today, it was well said "overcome evil with good" and in order to do that we must be at peace within ourselves; if we have inner turmoil because of these things it just makes way for more turmoil. Jesus said (John 14:26 KJV) But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
(John 14:27 KJV) Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.
Just sit back and let that peace soak into your soul, it will surround you and protect you.
What happens to an awful lot of us is that the accuser comes in and says ìjust look at you, you are a mess, you are a bigger mess than she/he is and you know itî and we begin to agree with him. ìyes, I have this problem or that problem and I canít seem to overcome itî and it robs us of the peace that Christ is willing to give us just as his word says. Learn to recognize the accuser and donít agree with him, Jesus has accepted you, imperfections and all, put on his perfection, his robe of righteousness; he suffered and died in order to furnish us it. Sure, I got problems that I need to overcome but they are for Jesus and me to discuss not between me and the accuser and so I just point to my robe that the Lord has furnished me with and say ìThank you Jesusî and that leaves the accuser with nothing but to go skittering and scurrying back to whatever dark hole he resides at the time and I just look at him and say ìJust look at you Satan you are a total messî.
I will give you a true story, I had a good friend who was Catholic, when the Lord saved me and I started attending church he said ìI will go to church alsoî so he went to his church, after a couple months, one evening he dropped by, we were out in the yard standing talking, all of a sudden he started denying Christ, just out of the blue, I stood and listened to him for about two minutes upbraiding Christ and I said, ìI rebuke you Satan in the name of Jesusî and his eyes got big and he said loudly ìOh!! Oh!!, if you are going to use that name I am leaving!!î and he literally ran as fast as he could to his truck, got in it and slammed the door and screeched out of there and never came back again. What I said to him just came out of me, I didnít plan to say it and the whole thing just left me standing there scratching my head. My old drinking buddy, gone in 60 seconds flat. I still donít know to this day what actually happened there. we both were amateur archeologist and I did miss him and it grieved my heart, yet I know he was taken away by the evil one, no more going on ìdigsî together, that all ended in 60 seconds. I am sure that neither one of us meant this to happen, we had never had a cross word in those years. I suspect what happened is that the Holy Ghost in me had a head on with Satan in him and we both got caught in the cross fire. Friends there is a battle going on out there that we canít see and itís all out war I do suspect. I am still amazed by the whole incident. I suspect that to offend the Holy Ghost is rather like getting an 18 wheeler dropped on you.
I give you this story to glean whatever you can from it. There is power in that name. I can only stand in wonder and awe.
River

River
Registered user
Username: River

Post Number: 170
Registered: 9-2006


Posted on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - 8:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ah, when it comes right down to it, the folk practicing Adventism is just folk muttering and digging in old grave yards, muttering and digging, digging and muttering, ìOh, here is an old bone and he grunches over to pick it up and tries to eat itî and ìPhaaaaaaa.î And he goes to muttering and digging, digging and muttering again, throwing the dirt up into the air and it falls right back down on him but heís not aware of that, he is too busy digging and muttering, muttering and digging. The grave yard he is digging in is the old covenant that passed away peacefully when Jesus showed up.
Just put up a sign at the entrance ìYe old covenant graveyardî ìNo digging, No mutteringî.
But donít let it get too you if you see someone out there digging and muttering, muttering and digging. Just go on and continue eating from the Lords table.
River
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 5031
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - 12:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Great analogy, River!

Colleen
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady

Post Number: 3081
Registered: 3-2004


Posted on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - 5:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

River,
Thanks so much. God has been telling me how to deal with this sister for a long time now and I am so thankful. His advice is always right and He is so awesome.
Diana
Cathy2
Registered user
Username: Cathy2

Post Number: 254
Registered: 2-2006
Posted on Thursday, November 30, 2006 - 3:50 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Diana,

Sorry to take so long to get back to you about your question to me. Right as I posted about my daughter, she got a sudden tummy virus and, later, I had to take her to the ER for some IV rehydration because she couldn't stop throwing up; also, I worried about possible appendecitis, when her abdomen hurt so badly. She is ok, now. But my other daughter and I got the bug, later.

In answer, my youngest, who is eating too much is 10 y/o. She began this last summer, while at her dad's, with all the stress there and watching their eating habits (It's appalling). Through mine and my older daughter's efforts, she is getting better, but I still must watch her; she is at risk. We do not routinely have sweets and snacks in our home, so that helps.

Thank you so much for your prayers and concerns.

Love in Christ,
Cathy
choosier1@msn.com
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady

Post Number: 3085
Registered: 3-2004


Posted on Thursday, November 30, 2006 - 6:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cathy,
Take time to talk to your 10 year old when she is not eating. When she wants to eat inappropriately you can say something like, it looks like you are upset over something. She can confirm or deny it or she can say I do not know. Try to get her to talk about whatever is going on inside her. I am sure you have done this. It is because I have had this eating disorder since I was a kid and I used food to anesthetize myself. My family was in denial about a lot of things and we did not mention them. I will pray for you and your daughter, that she will learn not to use food to stuff her feelings down.
We have an awesome God and He will help the both of you.
Diana

Add Your Message Here
Posting is currently disabled in this topic. Contact your discussion moderator for more information.

Topics | Last Day | Last Week | Tree View | Search | Help/Instructions | Program Credits Administration