| Author | Message | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 175 Registered: 9-2006  |
In (John 16:13 NIV) But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. And in (John 10:27 NIV) My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. The Adventist people use the name of the Holy Spirit, say they are guided by the Holy Spirit, end prayer in the name of Jesus and so forth. When one of them closes in prayer you could not tell the difference between them and any other Christian. Now here is the crux of the thing. Would the same Holy Spirit I know guide them in such a blatant disregard of scripture? If they are Jesus sheep and listen to his voice and are following him, then who am I following? If the Spirit of truth is guiding them into all truth, obviously I am being led astray and Iím hanging out with the wrong crowd here too by the way. I have too come to this conclusion. Either I do not have the Holy Spirit and donít know the Lord or they donít. Recently there was a spate of counterfeited 20.00 bills floating around and every time I went into the store, clerks were holding my twentyís up to the light trying to determine whether if was counterfeit. It is said in (2 Cor 11:12 NIV) And I will keep on doing what I am doing in order to cut the ground from under those who want an opportunity to be considered equal with us in the things they boast about. (2 Cor 11:13 NIV) For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. (2 Cor 11:14 NIV) And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. (2 Cor 11:15 NIV) It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve. Is what Paul spoken of there what is happening in the Adventist church? Now what I am going to say is going to hit hard. If in fact it is counterfeit, then it needs to be declared counterfeit. Just as in the case of the counterfeit twenties, the store clerks had been warned that many folk may be holding counterfeit bills and not know it. So it seems to be with a counterfeit religion but that does not make it less counterfeit. Unknowing holders will extend before them their counterfeit bills expecting it to be accepted but will it be accepted just because they were unknowing holders? The store clerk will turn to you and say ìSir, I cannot accept this bill. The holder may say ìBut sir, I got it from the bank!î Think about that. It is so important to know and recognize Christ real voice. To know his voice and follow him for if you do not know his voice you cannot follow him. Now you may say ìI have the Bible, so do they. Too put it bluntly, you say they are duped and they say you are duped. You are proffering your bill and saying ìThis is the real thingî and they are proffering their bill and saying ìNo, this is the real thingî. Now am I saying your soul depends on it? Yes I believe it does, I can find no indication that God will accept a counterfeit. Paul seems to say the opposite. Now lets see what Jesus said. (Mat 7:22 NIV) Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' (Mat 7:23 NIV) Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!' Sounds to me like Jesus ainít going to accept counterfeits either, now listen to this guy who wants to be accepted into the kingdom, he is totally shocked. The Adventist wants to be accepted by the evangelical church as equals. We all fully intend to stand before the Lord and be accepted. Any body want to gnaw on that bone? | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3095 Registered: 3-2004  |
River, SDA is so deceptive because it has some truth mixed in with it. They are also taught that the keeping of the sabbath is needed for salvation. They are also taught that the Catholics, will unite with the "apostate protestant" and will go after them to kill them for keeping the sabbath. No one wants to lose their salvation. Then there is EGW, who the SDA church teaches up there with the Bible and hold her to be an authoritative ...blah, blah, blah... I forget the words used. So because they believe where it says in Rev about having the testimony of Jesus and keep the commandments, they believe they have the truth. There are some SDAs who have found the truth of Jesus Christ in the SDA church. So all I can do is pray that God open their eyes. Before I learned the gospel of Jesus Christ, I hung onto the sabbath, even though I did not practice adventism as I had learned it as a kid in SDA churches and schools. Also, I did not raise my son in a typical SDA manner and I did take him out of SDA schools. I thank God for the SDA teacher who mistreated my son, which led me to take him out of SDA schools. In other words, I have to let God and the Holy Spirit do the convicting and convincing. I can present Christ and His salvation and leave the rest to God. Go to CARM-Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry-and read what us formers say to the current SDAs. They tell us we twist the Bible, as they twist it and do not recognize it. Like I said we can present the truth and leave the rest to God. God does not accept a counterfeit, but He will do the convicting and convincing. I will let Him do His job. Just my 2 cents worth. Diana | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 727 Registered: 8-2004  |
Yes River, if it is not true it is counterfeit. Thank God that he can use even those who preach him for the wrong reasons, and with a mixed up message to get thru to some people. I learned about Jesus in Adventism and accepted him as a young girl. I'm sure there are many other Adventists who have done the same. . . . At the same time, I'm an abundantly grateful that Jesus didn't leave me there (in Adventism). I believe that Adventists need to be woken up and that people need to be warned against falling into the Adventist trap. | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 728 Registered: 8-2004 |
Adventists are NOT just another evangelical church!! | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 177 Registered: 9-2006 |
I am not trying to do Gods job of convicting hearts, I deal with these people on a daily personal basis, I do too much rambling and I am sorry, I will try not to do that in future, I keep forgetting that most of you do not associate with Adventist on a daily personal basis. I am simply trying to sort out the mission field I find myself in (or) if in fact there is any ìmission fieldî. I think to a large part the Lord leaves me to flop around on my own because he knows itís not in me to drop it and so by studying as well as sprinkled with prayer I will come up with answers that I will not forget tomorrow or next week. You folk on here are the only ones I can really talk too, believe me, there is no one else, not my Pastor, church group, no body, they just do not understand. Diana, I did look up CARM but the page wouldn't load, probably too much Traffic,I will try again later, thanks for the tip. river | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 729 Registered: 8-2004 |
 I didn't find your post offensive at all. I agree with it wholeheartedly. I agree that SDAism is a counterfeit. I agree that it needs to be called by its right name. Sorry if you somehow thought I was disagreeing! | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 178 Registered: 9-2006 |
Helovesme2, I didn't think anything, was just trying to clear up the idea behind my post.I reread my own work and it didn't seem to lead to where I wanted to go,the folk I deal with look like, act like, talk like any other Christian but I still believe they are counterfeit Christians.Sure not 100% but most.I am trying to define why I think that.I don't even know for sure myself. Did you think I thought, you thought, I thought, you thought, Ha. I am not miffed, suspended, maybe upended but not untended. Yer friend in Christ. River | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 730 Registered: 8-2004 |
River wrote: " Yer friend in Christ. River " LOL! Thats a relief! Yes there are things that walk like a duck and quack like a duck that are not in fact ducks. Counterfeits often are VERY close. | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 179 Registered: 9-2006 |
Right ya are, the counterfeit is so close itís uncanny. I am going to try to pin down for you what started me off on this jag in the first place. It just takes me a little time for my poor mental abilities too jell so do forgive me if I seem to talk in circles, believe me my mind is going in circles right now. My analogy too a fake twenty dollar bill holds a very real importance here. I have come to the conclusion that the Adventist is deceived here as many of you have said. I can see clearly the root of deceit, in an earlier thread you helped me to trace it back to how it got here in the first place. Now it all boils down too this. Either it is counterfeit or it is not. Now I have heard it said on here time and time again that ìI know some are savedî and that is exactly what brought me to the predicament I am in. Before, I examined Adventist on a general level; now to get any further I have to bring it down to a personal level. I am not concerned about the saved I am concerned for the lost for therein lies the mission field. Now the deceiver is a counterfeiter, he hasnít changed since Adam, he uses slight of hand, mere card tricks. Now look at this trick in the garden, if you follow the story closely, he tries to make God out the deceiver and all he is really offering her is what she already has and he tries to make as if God is withholding good things from her when in fact God has not withheld anything good from them, they have exactly what God intended and they are his in his own image. The minute Eve began to question God and agree with Satan she is in trouble and thereís a world of hurt coming down. The minute the original Adventist began to question God when God had spoken (Mat 25:13 KJV) Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh. I can just hear the conversation now as the deceiver sidles up and says îHath God said? You are one smart puppy, you can figure this thing outî and a world of hurt was headed his way. Now I deal with these people on a day to day basis on a personal level, not a theological level, the minute I start disputing with these people is the minute I have taken myself out of that particular mission field. I am not free to go into details of my situation as this is a public forum. Now Iím telling you, these people sound like, look like, act like any other Christian, I fact better than some I know, maybe me. If in fact they are Christian believers then there is no mission field and all my work and labor has mostly been for nothing as far as the people are concerned, I have certainly grown in the study of Gods word so I donít say there has been no gain. We shall know them by their fruits, so if they look so good then where is the bad fruit? Well, Iíll tell you where the bad fruit is, you people come out of there cut, bruised, bleeding and betrayed and have husbands/wives/relatives looking at you with accusing eyes and manor and some under outright attack, some burdened still under heavy loads. Now I am speaking in analogies some but I just do not know any other way to describe what I see. I can see the hurt and the pain coming any time someone disagrees with them. Bad fruit, not the fruit of love in Christ Jesus. Now I am not inviting a pity party at all, all one has to do is read back through these treads to see that I am right. People still in it under tremendous strain to ìmeasure upî to what they canít measure up to. Unhappy people who paste a smile on their face and soldier on. Bad fruit. The apple donít fall far from the tree. River | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5040 Registered: 12-2003  |
River, again I agree with your assessment. As Mary said, some Adventists do find Jesus while in Adventismóbut I don't think that phenomenon is any different from Mormon's meeting Jesus or Muslims meeting Jesus through His being included in the Koran. Jesus does reveal Himself to all who earnestly desire to know God. A great many Adventists, though, are so lostóand they believe they are RIGHT. I suppose this is especially on my mind right now because we have been getting a stream of phone calls from people asking to be removed from the Proclamation! mailing list. The big mailing we did to the new names we were given is hitting homes as we speak, and I am reminded again how different Adventism is outside Loma Linda! The anger is overwhelming. One man this morning calmly informed me that I and those with me will shoot him and his SDA brothers when the Sunday law is passed. Further, the signs are being fulfilled; the end is near, the pope is calling for a Sunday law, and what will I do when it happens? Further, I don't want to hear him speak because I have such a deep disrespect for the law of God. Further, claiming to be in Christ proves nothing; the Crusaders loved Jesus, too. He knows he's right, and I know he's right, and we'll see very soon that he's right. And on and onóas I reiterated I had no desire to argue Adventism with him. (We did receive a very funny email yesterdayóit was request to have a name deleted with this addendum: We were told that some of the brightest lights would go out [Ellen remember?]. Obviously your light has gone out, and you were not the brightest.) So yes, Adventism is a counterfeit church in the same way (only more deceptive) Mormonism is a counterfeit. They look really good on the surface and do many helpful things in the community. But inside they are desolate. Their hearts are empty and anxiousóalthough often very content and smug at the same time, if that makes any sense. Their businesses are full of compromise and even illegalities. One of the often-repeated lines we hear is this (quoted from an email we got this week): "I do believe that you prayed and were 'led'. I don't believe you were led by God." This person also made the following statements: "The spirit that motivates [Proclamation!] is not a spirit I want in my house." And this: "Sorry, your 'gospel' is of your father the devil, the father of lies." These kinds of things confirm the true nature of Adventism. A true born-again Christian would not disparage the gospel of Jesus. I pray that God will expose and break the spirit of Adventism and set free those caught in deception and dishonesty. Colleen | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3099 Registered: 3-2004 |
All I can say is ditto to everything River, Colleen and Helovesmetoo said. Adventism is dangerous because it is so close to the Bible truth. Diana | ||
| Mwh Registered user Username: Mwh Post Number: 362 Registered: 4-2006  |
Colleen, wow It would be nice to get some numbers on how many turns down proclamation and how many let it in. | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 181 Registered: 9-2006 |
Colleen Quote: (We did receive a very funny email yesterdayóit was request to have a name deleted with this addendum: We were told that some of the brightest lights would go out [Ellen remember?]. Obviously your light has gone out, and you were not the brightest.) At last an Adventist with a sense of humor!! I just woke up from hibernating and that cheered me up. And the thought of the pope wearing a 357 Magnum is kind of funny too. I can just see him giving blessings all strapped and a bandolier of ammo crossing his shoulder. Oh well, by the way I got straightened out so I can download Proclamation. Be encouraged today and Richard also. Eyes wide open now. I think I just cracked the second eyelid. Gods most richest, richest, richest Blessings. River | ||
| Dennisrainwater Registered user Username: Dennisrainwater Post Number: 129 Registered: 8-2000  |
Another Colleen quote: {One of the often-repeated lines we hear is this (quoted from an email we got this week): "I do believe that you prayed and were 'led'. I don't believe you were led by God." This person also made the following statements: "The spirit that motivates [Proclamation!] is not a spirit I want in my house." And this: "Sorry, your 'gospel' is of your father the devil, the father of lies."} Ouch! That is dangerous ground for those folks to be treading on so carelessly. It was under similar circumstances when Jesus declared "the unpardonable sin". The Pharisees had just accused Him of being led and empowered by a 'wrong spirit', and Jesus very pointedly and chillingly called it blasphemy! Pointedly enough to finger it as a stronger sin than speaking against Jesus Himself, or even the Father.... Lest I worry you too much, I'm not attributing messianic qualities to you at FAF and LAM, ;-) But Jesus was rebuking the Jews for slandering the Holy Spirit. And that is precisely what has happened in these messages you've received. It is obvious that the Holy Spirit has responded to the prayers that you, and most of the rest of us prayed, when we were each wrestling with the great struggle of what to do with the problems of Adventism, and the cognitive dissonance they saddled us with. While Adventists have every right to QUESTION that reality, to take exception with our conclusions, and to say so, they should be very cautious before taking such a blind leap as to accuse us of being led by the devil.... The Bible makes it clear that **words matter**. As such, may the Lord keep my tongue from wagging when it shouldn't! My 2¢ worth, Den <>< | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 182 Registered: 9-2006 |
Quote: Ouch! That is dangerous ground for those folks to be treading on so carelessly. It was under similar circumstances when Jesus declared "the unpardonable sin". The Pharisees had just accused Him of being led and empowered by a 'wrong spirit', and Jesus very pointedly and chillingly called it blasphemy! Pointedly enough to finger it as a stronger sin than speaking against Jesus Himself, or even the Father.... ìwhen we were each wrestling with the great struggle of what to do with the problems of Adventismî Thanks for that post. You are exactly right and you have brought to the fore with your post such and important point I just have to jump in here and address this and in so doing may find answers to what I seek. What to do with the problems of Adventism is exactly the question that weighs heavily on my mind today. The honest belief that someone is lead by the wrong spirit and too go upbraiding someone on a personal basis is entirely two different things altogether. This reminds of a situation where during some of the conversations I had with my brother in which he used the phrase ìThem old tonguesî and after I heard him use it about the third time I remarked too him ìyou scare me, I advise you to let that aloneî ìI would be afraid to do thatî and much too my relief he never used that phrase any more. The answer just comes to my mind this morning ìlet love have its wayî now as I deal with my Adventist friends on a personal daily basis that is what I must do ìLet love have its wayî is that in the Bible? At any rate if we do not let the love that I speak of have its way, then surly unforgiveness, resentment, turmoil, upbraiding and things of that nature will take its place. Well I did a little search and here it is ladies and gentlemen (Rom 12:9 KJV) Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good. (Rom 12:10 KJV) Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honour preferring one another; Here is another passage (Prov 3:3 NIV) Let love and faithfulness never leave you; bind them around your neck, write them on the tablet of your heart. If we allow the true love of God too reside in us and go before us at all times we will surly find success and end up doing the right thing, donít you think? It just seems to me this morning that if we do not have the love of God residing in us and going before us then the bad fruits will surely be made manifest in some way, no matter good we look, no matter how good we sound, no matter how we try to hide behind the justification of Sabbath keeping, church going and so forth it will produce the fruit of its kind. I doubt if the love of God can be counterfeited for long. Now folks, I am not talking about the imperfections in us, what I am saying is that the only love of God we are going to have to go before us is the true Holy Spirit within us. If we have the Holy Spirit within us then it is he that will go before us if we allow him and thus let him have his way. If we do not have the Holy Spirit we claim, then that will be made manifest in some way by the fruit it produces in the long run and thus we are able to recognize the counterfeit. Well, somebody jump in here, Iím gettin long winded again. River | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3104 Registered: 3-2004 |
Every so often my pastor makes a statement that I do not forget. River, what you said about love is summed up in a statement the pastor made 2 years ago in a sermon. The statement is "If you want to share good news, you have to be good news." The sermon was about God's love. So I ask God to let His love shine through me to others on a daily basis. He is always so awesome. Diana | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5042 Registered: 12-2003 |
River, you're right. The fruit of the Spirit reveals itself in believers. It's not us just deciding to be "loving"óHe actually lives through us when we are Hisóoften in spite of ourselves. Colleen | ||
| Timmy Registered user Username: Timmy Post Number: 153 Registered: 8-2006  |
My net has been acting up so I have missed a lot good stuff here. Here is one... "One man this morning calmly informed me that I and those with me will shoot him and his SDA brothers when the Sunday law is passed." I don't know about you guys but I am packing a .45 Glock and stocking 180 grain hollow point hydroshock ammo and getting ready along with my new Christian friends to shoot the Adventist. My whole church is monitoring the media waiting for our sign to let the SDA's have it (I hear they go really good with grits )............. AAwwwwwe, I apologize for the sarcasm. I feel that nervous twitch coming back when I see/hear some of those most ludicrous, absurd and insane teachings... that I used to believe and repeat! That is the most scary part. Being on this side of the fence knowing the bazaar things we used to accuse our Christian brothers of literally makes me sick. Colleen, I hope when they make these ridiculous jabs at you, that you and Richard just chuckle and feel sorry for THEM. You guys are great! ts P.S. If any of my Christian brothers are lurking on this site, I apologize for my past, and for saying such nasty mean things about you. I really do. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5057 Registered: 12-2003 |
Yes, I echo Timmy's apology. It's unbelievable what we believedóand yes, God is guarding our hearts and keeping us fairly objective. I thank Him for that! Colleen | ||
| Randyg Registered user Username: Randyg Post Number: 317 Registered: 12-2004 |
Colleen, I am sorry for the hate mail you have been receiving regarding the Proclamation mailing. I am not surprised at this response. While many thinking Adventists might be more charitable, I have found that in general, most feel perfectly justified in being verbally abusive to those that confront them with Scriptural rebuttals to their unsupportable doctrines. It is no wonder that the Church as a whole reflects these viewpoints, as your responses came from the educated and theological elite among Adventism, as that is the group that the mailing was focused on. How little tolerance and Christian love these people must have. And these are the thought leaders of God's "Remnant Church". Lord have mercy on their souls! |
