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Grace_alone
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Username: Grace_alone

Post Number: 337
Registered: 6-2006


Posted on Sunday, December 03, 2006 - 3:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Friends,

I was remembering something this morning that got me wondering - Where did the "laws" forbidding dancing and going to movie theaters come from? I realize the dancing part isn't exclusively Adventist, but I was curious if those were in EGW's writings. When my husband and I were dating, those two rules came up during the SDA worship all too often (including eating meat) and I just remember wondering where exactly they started.

If there weren't enough laws to obey in the first place!

:-) Leigh Anne

p.s. Happy Advent season!

Jeremy
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Username: Jeremy

Post Number: 1635
Registered: 10-2004


Posted on Sunday, December 03, 2006 - 4:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yep, they come from the Law of Ellen (which also contains many other commands and forbiddings). She speaks against theaters and dancing many times in her writings. Here are just a few examples:


quote:

"The only safe course is to shun the theater, the circus, and every other questionable place of amusement." (The Adventist Home, page 516, paragraph 2.)

"There are amusements, such as dancing, card playing, chess, checkers, etc., which we cannot approve because Heaven condemns them. These amusements open the door for great evil. They are not beneficial in their tendency, but have an exciting influence, producing in some minds a passion for those plays which lead to gambling and dissipation. All such plays should be condemned by Christians, and something perfectly harmless should be substituted in their place." (The Adventist Home, page 498, paragraph 2.)

"They are not to educate their children to attend parties and concerts and dances, to have and attend feasts, because after this manner the Gentiles walk." (Child Guidance, page 181, paragraph 3.)

"The things you have described as taking place in Indiana, the Lord has shown me would take place just before the close of probation. Every uncouth thing will be demonstrated. There will be shouting, with drums, and dancing. The senses of rational beings will become so confused that they cannot be trusted to make right decisions. And this is called the moving of the Holy Spirit." (Manuscript Releases, Volume Five, page 107, paragraph 3.)




Jeremy
Flyinglady
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Username: Flyinglady

Post Number: 3113
Registered: 3-2004


Posted on Sunday, December 03, 2006 - 4:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Leigh Anne,
I remember those coming from EGW. AS for non SDA, I have no idea where they got it.
At family parties, such as weddings and birthdays, we danced. So I learned to dance at family get togethers with my Mom's Catholic family. My Dad's sister was SDA, but we did not associate with her and her family very much.
Diana
Helovesme2
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Username: Helovesme2

Post Number: 737
Registered: 8-2004


Posted on Sunday, December 03, 2006 - 4:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dancing and Theater prohibitions were also part of Methodist, Baptist, and Puritan teachings. Probably others as well. Part of the 'if God didn't expressly say we could then we probably can't' school.
Grace_alone
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Username: Grace_alone

Post Number: 338
Registered: 6-2006


Posted on Sunday, December 03, 2006 - 4:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks all!

Jeremy, "There are amusements, such as dancing, card playing, chess, checkers, etc., which we cannot approve because Heaven condemns them." I wonder if she was "shown" that from her angel-guide boyfriend...

So I guess Rook is out - YAY I hate that game!

:-)

Loneviking
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Username: Loneviking

Post Number: 525
Registered: 7-2000
Posted on Sunday, December 03, 2006 - 5:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey! Rook is Adventist poker and a near sacrosanct tradition!! Sure made long bus rides easier....
Flyinglady
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Username: Flyinglady

Post Number: 3114
Registered: 3-2004


Posted on Sunday, December 03, 2006 - 6:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I never learned to play Rook. My parents let us play dominoes and as an adult I learned to play chess and even taught it to my son. Of course the last, teaching chess to my son, was done after my name had been taken off the church books, unknown to me.
Diana
Raven
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Username: Raven

Post Number: 659
Registered: 7-2004


Posted on Sunday, December 03, 2006 - 8:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In my family, we never learned to play cards, Rook, or Chess and to this day I have no clue and think I'm too old to learn, although I did play Rook a couple times as a very young adult. Occasionally we were allowed to play Checkers, but were usually admonished what a waste of time it was. Instead, we got to play Bird, Flower, and Tree cards - did anyone else do this? It was a way of learning the names of the various types and somehow they were put together in sets that you collected as you asked people if they had something that belonged to your set. It sure made boring Sabbath afternoons pass by a little quicker.

I thought it was amusing our last couple years in the SDA church when we would go to the home of some good friends on Sabbath afternoon with the intent to play pool after sundown. We (except me because I couldn't get the hang of it) would play real cards during Sabbath until we could play pool. These friends, who were stuanch, conservative church-office holding members, felt playing cards was an acceptable Sabbath activity, but pool was not. We would have done either, but it was yet another odd thing that helped us analyze what's wrong with the SDA picture.
Flyinglady
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Username: Flyinglady

Post Number: 3116
Registered: 3-2004


Posted on Sunday, December 03, 2006 - 8:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We played authors, non SDA famous authors like Dicken and right now I cannot remember other authors. I bought the bird card game for my son when he was little and he only played with it on sabbath.
What a time!!!! Thank God I am free of that.
Diana
River
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Username: River

Post Number: 188
Registered: 9-2006


Posted on Sunday, December 03, 2006 - 8:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It ain't no wonder them folks got no sense of humor.
Now when we kicked the chairs back and brought out the fiddles, guitars and banjos and played music till two in the morning Ellen would have surely condemned us fer such foot stompin.
now the girls wouldn't let me dance fer fear of gettin stepped on.Course we didn't have to worry about Ellen cause we were so far back in them hills even a revanuer couldn't have found his way back in there.
Our churches had every stringed instrument we could lay our hands on.If a person could have played a pine tree someone would have learned to play it.
I guess we were a consternation to the lesser lights.
Helovesme2
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Username: Helovesme2

Post Number: 738
Registered: 8-2004


Posted on Sunday, December 03, 2006 - 9:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

One of Ellen's boys, not sure if it was Willie, Henry, or Edson, got in big trouble after sneaking off to hear a military band play nearby. After all, that was devil's music!

Mary
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 5045
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Sunday, December 03, 2006 - 9:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ha! The Devil's music!

Yes, we had the Flower Game. I remember that Mariposa Tulip belonged to the category "F". We played that game on many Sabbath afternoons when we had company.

Colleen
Riverfonz
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Username: Riverfonz

Post Number: 2348
Registered: 3-2005
Posted on Sunday, December 03, 2006 - 9:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ellen White was just a product of her times as you could find the writings of other fundamentalists that she copied.

In many ways SoCal SDAs are much more liberal in theater, dancing, mixed swimming than other fundamentalist churches.

Forbidding alcohol is an American evangelical phenonomena, with temperance pledges also part of the Calvary Chapel movement and other fundamentalist groups.

Adventists don't hold the game of "monopoly" for legalsism with extra-biblical rules.

Stan
Helovesme2
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Username: Helovesme2

Post Number: 739
Registered: 8-2004


Posted on Sunday, December 03, 2006 - 9:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

:-) yes, and even before the American Evangelicals got involved it came from the 'Women's Temperance Movement' which was not a particularly religious movement at all, IIRC.

It does NOT extend back to the Early American Puritans. The Puritans did not allow dancing or frivolity, but drinking was a regular part of their everyday life.

Mary
Bigal
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Username: Bigal

Post Number: 51
Registered: 9-2006


Posted on Monday, December 04, 2006 - 5:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I still have the "Trees, Birds, and Animals" games. The boxes the cards come in are all taped up with yellow non-sticking tape by now. They probably sit near the "Egypt to Caanan" game in a closet or box above the garage.

We danced as Adventist. Raven don't you remember the "Grand Marches" in the RJA school gym?

Alan

(Message edited by bigal on December 04, 2006)
Grace_alone
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Username: Grace_alone

Post Number: 339
Registered: 6-2006


Posted on Monday, December 04, 2006 - 6:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Stan, I think you're right about the So-Cal set. One of my bil's is an SDA pastor, and he goes to the movies all the time. (His wife wears a wedding ring as well.) My parents in law are more the old fashioned SDA type, especially with the Sabbath regulations and movies, although they don't follow nearly the amount of food laws as some I've read here. I think if they couldn't eat eggs or cheese they'd fall over dead!

:-) Leigh Anne
Susans
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Username: Susans

Post Number: 232
Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Monday, December 04, 2006 - 6:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Maybe they still feel that eggs are safe to eat, since Ellen said there would COME a time where you could not do this (and milk too, btw). As far as cheese, well, that rotten fermented stuff is made with hog rennet, you know. Unless they get the Amish stuff that has vegetable rennet (or they eat soy cheese) they are definitely disregarding the prophet.

(I have no idea if cheese is still made with this, but that was one of the reasons, besides it being fermented and not fit to eat, that EGW railed against it. Although it wouldn't surprise me if one day it was discovered she ate bleu cheese :-) )

Susan
Raven
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Username: Raven

Post Number: 660
Registered: 7-2004


Posted on Monday, December 04, 2006 - 6:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bigal, weren't those "Grand Marches" Pathfinders related? I vaguely remember some such thing, but we weren't even allowed to be in Pathfinders except part of one year. It was considered unnecessary because my dad could teach us any of that stuff at home (except the marches!). In case anyone is wondering, yes my parents admired Weimar-type Adventism and I was so thankful we didn't live anywhere near one of those communities.
Bigal
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Username: Bigal

Post Number: 52
Registered: 9-2006


Posted on Monday, December 04, 2006 - 6:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The "Marches" (Adventist dancing) usually took place on a Saturday night at a church social. We would figure eight, weave, cross paths all over the gym in a line while following the person in front of you. Even side by side with mixed gender! I believe this was probably more an east coast type activity. I did march in pathfinders, but that was different than the Grand March.

I wonder if Ellen took part in any Marches?

Alan
Grace_alone
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Username: Grace_alone

Post Number: 340
Registered: 6-2006


Posted on Monday, December 04, 2006 - 8:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Raven, bless your heart, I sure hope you're living it up now!

In fact, I hope all of you are fully enjoying your freedom in Christ!

:-)

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