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Bigal
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Username: Bigal

Post Number: 58
Registered: 9-2006


Posted on Sunday, December 10, 2006 - 9:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have not been able to locate my baptisimal certificate from the SDA church. It has been 31 years since being baptized into that church. I have friends who's children are presently going through "Baptisimal classes" right now before they can be baptized. Here is a pdf file link to the official church manual: Seventh-day Adventist Church Manual 2005.

Here is the Baptisimal Covenant:


quote:

Baptismal CovenantóA summary of doctrinal beliefs, prepared especially for the instruction of candidates for baptism, together with Baptismal Vow and Certificate of Baptism and Commitment, have been adopted by the denomination as a baptismal covenant. A printed copy of this covenant, with the Certificate of Baptism and Commitment properly completed, should be furnished to all those who are accepted for church membership by baptism. In the case of those received on profession of faith, an appropriate certificate will also be given.
This summary of doctrinal beliefs is especially prepared for the instruction of candidates for baptism. Each candidate should be thoroughly familiar with the teachings contained in this summary and with the duties enjoined upon believers and by practice demonstrate a willing acceptance of all the doctrines taught by Seventh-day Adventists and the principles of conduct which are the outward expression of these teachings, for it is ìby their fruits ye shall know them.î
Prospective members of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, before baptism or acceptance on profession of faith, should be carefully instructed from the Scriptures in the fundamental beliefs of the church as presented in chapter 3 (see p. 9) of this Church Manual. In order to assist evangelists, pastors, and others in giving such instruction and making it Scripture-based and practical, a specially prepared summary appears as an appendix on pages 219-223 of this Church Manual and in the Ministerís Handbook.




Here is the actual Vow"


quote:

Baptismal Vow and Baptism
Baptismal VowóCandidates for baptism or those being received into fellowship by profession of faith shall affirm their acceptance of the doctrinal beliefs of the Seventh-day Adventist Church in the presence of the church or other properly appointed body. (See p. 31.) The minister or elder should address the following questions to the candidate(s), whose reply may be by verbal assent or by raising the hand.
Vow
1. Do you believe there is one God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, a unity of three coeternal Persons?
2. Do you accept the death of Jesus Christ on Calvary as the atoning sacrifice for your sins and believe that by Godís grace through faith in His shed blood you are saved from sin and its penalty?
3. Do you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and personal Saviour, believing that God, in Christ, has forgiven your sins and given you a new heart, and do you renounce the sinful ways of the world?
4. Do you accept by faith the righteousness of Christ, your Intercessor in the heavenly sanctuary, and accept His promise of transforming grace and power to live a loving, Christ-centered life in your home and before the world?
5. Do you believe that the Bible is Godís inspired Word, the only rule of faith and practice for the Christian? Do you covenant to spend time regularly in prayer and Bible study?
6. Do you accept the Ten Commandments as a transcript of the character of God and a revelation of His will? Is it your purpose by the power of the indwelling Christ to keep this law, including the fourth
CHURCH MEMBERSHIP 33
commandment, which requires the observance of the seventh day of the week as the Sabbath of the Lord and the memorial of Creation?
7. Do you look forward to the soon coming of Jesus and the blessed hope, when ìthis mortal shall . . . put on immortalityî? As you prepare to meet the Lord, will you witness to His loving salvation by using your talents in personal soul-winning endeavor to help others to be ready for His glorious appearing?
8. Do you accept the biblical teaching of spiritual gifts and believe that the gift of prophecy is one of the identifying marks of the remnant church?
9. Do you believe in church organization? Is it your purpose to worship God and to support the church through your tithes and offerings and by your personal effort and influence?
10. Do you believe that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit; and will you honor God by caring for it, avoiding the use of that which is harmful, abstaining from all unclean foods; from the use, manufacture, or sale of alcoholic beverages; the use, manufacture, or sale of tobacco in any of its forms for human consumption; and from the misuse of or trafficking in narcotics or other drugs?
11. Do you know and understand the fundamental Bible principles as taught by the Seventh-day Adventist Church? Do you purpose, by the grace of God, to fulfill His will by ordering your life in harmony with these principles?
12. Do you accept the New Testament teaching of baptism by immersion and desire to be so baptized as a public expression of faith in Christ and His forgiveness of your sins?
13. Do you accept and believe that the Seventh-day Adventist Church is the remnant church of Bible prophecy and that people of every nation, race, and language are invited and accepted into its fellowship? Do you desire to be a member of this local congregation of the world church?




And finally the Commitment:


quote:

Certificate of Baptism and CommitmentóA space will be provided for the new member to sign the certificate as an affirmation of this commitment. Following the baptism, a Certificate of Baptism and Commitment will be presented to the candidate as a covenant document. The commitment will read as follows:
Commitment
1. I believe there is one God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, a unity of three coeternal Persons.
2. I accept the death of Jesus Christ on Calvary as the atoning sacrifice for my sins and believe that by Godís grace through faith in His shed blood I am saved from sin and its penalty.
3. I accept Jesus Christ as my Lord and personal Saviour and believe that God, in Christ, has forgiven my sins and given me a new heart, and I renounce the sinful ways of the world.
4. I accept by faith the righteousness of Christ, my Intercessor in the heavenly sanctuary, and accept His promise of transforming grace and power to live a loving, Christ-centered life in my home and before the world.
5. I believe that the Bible is Godís inspired Word, the only rule of faith and practice for the Christian. I covenant to spend time regularly in prayer and Bible study.
6. I accept the Ten Commandments as a transcript of the character of God and a revelation of His will. It is my purpose by the power of the indwelling Christ to keep this law, including the fourth commandment, which requires the observance of the seventh day of the week as the Sabbath of the Lord and the memorial of Creation.
7. I look forward to the soon coming of Jesus and the blessed hope, when ìthis mortal shall . . . put on immortality.î As I prepare to meet the Lord, I will witness to His loving salvation by using my talents in personal soul-winning endeavor to help others to be ready for His glorious appearing.
8. I accept the biblical teaching of spiritual gifts and believe that the gift of prophecy is one of the identifying marks of the remnant church.
9. I believe in church organization. It is my purpose to worship God and to support the church through my tithes and offerings and by my personal effort and influence.
CHURCH MEMBERSHIP 35
10. I believe that my body is the temple of the Holy Spirit; and I will honor God by caring for it, avoiding the use of that which is harmful, abstaining from all unclean foods; from the use, manufacture, or sale of alcoholic beverages; the use, manufacture, or sale of tobacco in any of its forms for human consumption; and from the misuse of or trafficking in narcotics or other drugs.
11. I know and understand the fundamental Bible principles as taught by the Seventh-day Adventist Church. I purpose, by the grace of God, to fulfill His will by ordering my life in harmony with these principles.
12. I accept the New Testament teaching of baptism by immersion and desire to be so baptized as a public expression of faith in Christ and His forgiveness of my sins.
13. I accept and believe that the Seventh-day Adventist Church is the remnant church of Bible prophecy and that people of every nation, race, and language are invited and accepted into its fellowship. I desire to be a member of this local congregation of the world church.




Sorry for the long post and quotes.

Alan

River
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Username: River

Post Number: 223
Registered: 9-2006


Posted on Sunday, December 10, 2006 - 12:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Alan,
Thank you so much, that is the info I needed, that explains what the guy was talking about when he was on mission.
River
Mrsbrian3
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Post Number: 68
Registered: 8-2005
Posted on Monday, December 11, 2006 - 8:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A Sabbath School discussion on baptismal vows was the final straw that took us completely out of the SDA church. We were in class on Saturday, July 2, 2005, and the discussion was on baptism. The head pastor, though not a member of this class, was there at the time. The question asked was "would you be baptised again if you had to agree with the 27 (at the time) fundamentals of the church". One guy said he had been tricked into being baptised. Another said he only believed 6 or 7 of them. I don't remember anyone saying they believed or agreed with all 27 or even most of the 27. The pastor said nothing. Maybe he went back on another Sabbath to follow-up, but I doubt it. That was it for us. We realized that for us we were being hypocrites attending a church that we no longer supported.
River
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Post Number: 228
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Posted on Monday, December 11, 2006 - 9:58 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The 28 fundamentals are such a mixture of Christian doctrine and heresy with EGW stuck right in the middle.
Whether one believes in 6 or 7 or all 28 he agrees and affirms them, by the very act of their Baptism.
They give classes to this effect even before the baptismal act. Therefore the person is publicly affirming and agreeing to it.
It is no wonder that most if not all former Adventist have had to come to the point that they rejected all Adventism in order to be free of it once and for all. He has in effect repented of what he before affirmed.
My Baptism however held only one requirement, I confessed Christ as my savior. Down I went and up I came.
Just as in (Acts 8:36 KJV) And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
(Acts 8:37 KJV) And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
He mayest and I mayest and you mayest.
If that were me coming out of that I would think that I would insist on rebaptism without all the garbage tacked to it. I tell you I get a blessing just thinking about it.
River.
Susans
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Post Number: 257
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Posted on Monday, December 11, 2006 - 12:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am considering being rebaptized for just that reason, River. I have attended church most of my life, but was never baptized until I joined the SDA church at 29. The "garbage" had really nothing to do with identifying with Jesus in his death, burial, and resurrection.

Susan
Flyinglady
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Username: Flyinglady

Post Number: 3150
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Posted on Monday, December 11, 2006 - 12:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

River,
When I became a born again Christian, after leaving adventism(I was born, raised, went to all their schools 1st grade through university) I wanted to be rebaptized into the body of Christ. That is the way my church does it and I was baptized June 30, 2004.
Praise God. He is so awesome.
Diana
Bigal
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Post Number: 60
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Posted on Monday, December 11, 2006 - 2:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

River,Susan and Diana,
My wife and I have given serious thought to being rebaptized. I do believe I was baptized into a church denomination and not the body of Christ. At the age I was baptized I don't feel I really understood all that it entailed.

I guess now that I have actually read and understand (or don't) the vows or commitment I took at age 12, I know for sure I am not an SDA. I know for sure I want baptism at my present age to affirm my new understanding of dwelling in the body of Christ. I want to symbolically wash clean of sin and my former life of legalism and apathy.

Okay, note to self: contact my pastor and see what my present church's "commitment" is in regards to baptism.

Alan
Ric_b
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Post Number: 665
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Posted on Monday, December 11, 2006 - 2:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think that rebaptism is a question each person has to answer for themselves. I think we should consider whether we believe the benefit of baptism is based on the person performing the action or on the God we are baptized into. I think the response will also differ based on what we consider our "role" in baptism to be, are we the recipient or a participant. This raises questions like, do I need to be rebaptized each time I come to understand more about God? Is the benefit of baptism based on my understanding of doctrine at the time of baptism? How accurate of doctrinal understanding is required of the person performing the baptism for it to be effective? Some of the church historians might want to chime in on that one, as there is some historical signifance to that question.

I'm not certain that there is ONE answer to the question of whether an SDA should be rebaptized.
River
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Post Number: 232
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Posted on Monday, December 11, 2006 - 5:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My quote:
He mayest and I mayest and you mayest.
If that were me coming out of that I would think that I would insist on rebaptism without all the garbage tacked to it. I tell you I get a blessing just thinking about it.

Re-baptism is a matter of conscience, what I said was my own conscience speaking to me, I was in no way saying that any of you should be re-baptized, I said ìIf it were meî I said what I meant and I meant what I said and I still mean it. All it would take is another Christian and a cow pond and have him say these words ìI baptize you in the name of the Father, The Son, and the Holy Ghostî it is too Jesus I was Baptized, I was Baptized as a child and I was re-baptized as an adult, whether it was necessary or not my conscience said to me ìIt is wellî and I praised God and still do for the day in that swimming pool, the swimming pool had nothing to do with it, the Pastor that happened to dunk me had nothing to do with it, the churches views or doctrines had nothing to do with it, if my Pastor hadnít of done it I think I would have eventually gotten someone else. It was between me and my Lord and savior only on that day. But then thatís just me. My requirements for baptism are sparse ìsee here is water, what is hindering?î and another Christian ìIf thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayestî. I am a simple soul arenít I? My conscience is tender toward the Lord Jesus today as well as then and if I felt the need I would probably walk out into a swamp full a gators if I could get another Christian to take the risk.
I donít think I will ever feel the need again since that day even though my knowledge and understanding of the word has grown exponentially. But if I do, I have no doubt that I will find me a hole of water somewhere.
Praise the Lamb of God, if I keep this up I might have to get up from here and run around the house a time or two!!
River
Alnadean
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Posted on Monday, December 11, 2006 - 9:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Believe you me River, I'm still laughing from your 2 posts.
Yes we all mayest! I absolutely agree with you---all you need is belief and water, and one other person.
But boy that was funny.
Thanks
Al-Nadean
Colleentinker
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Posted on Monday, December 11, 2006 - 10:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There's a difference between believer's baptism and baptism as a means of benefitting the recipient.

The way believer's baptism is usually understood, it is not a means of benefitting a recipient. It is a statement of one's decision to follow Christ. When people are baptized into a church and not into Christ as a result of a personal submission to Him, they often decide to be rebaptized later as a sign of their belief in Chirst. This rite, however, is not a means of grace. It is a statement of loyalty and submission and commitment.

Colleen
Agapetos
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Posted on Tuesday, December 12, 2006 - 4:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was also baptized when I was 12 at Sligo SDA church in Takoma Park, Maryland, with my brother. I didn't really understand -- or more accurately, I can't remember now how much I understood back then. Maybe I did know some, maybe I didn't. I simply can't remember. I do remember that I wanted to give myself, my life, to Christ.

I met God for the first time in 1998 when He interrupted my life of philosophical doubts. I first knew I had faith about nine or ten months later when I was in missionary training in Japan. I learned of the Holy Spirit and God's true Sabbath-rest in Jesus a little more than a year after that. Then about a year and a half later still, I officially "left" Adventism, though in the truest way I had already left when I learned of the Spirit & His Sabbath-rest.

Maybe a year or two ago I wondered about whether I should be baptized again or not... I wondered about whether my first baptism (at 12 years old) was "real" or not. Eventually I felt rest in the Lord that He had accepted my baptism when I was 12 -- He saw my heart even truer than I did, and in His eyes it was more than sufficient. And more and more since then, He's led me and I've grown to know Him & serve Him in deeper ways.

Actually, when I officially left Adventism, I wrote a letter to all my family & friends. That felt like "baptism"! Imagine if you were the first Christian in your family... I had the same kind of "butterflies" in my stomach when I did that.
River
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Post Number: 233
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Posted on Tuesday, December 12, 2006 - 7:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Colleens Quote:
There's a difference between believer's baptism and baptism as a means of benefitting the recipient.
When people are baptized into a church and not into Christ as a result of a personal submission to Him, they often decide to be rebaptized later as a sign of their belief in Christ. This rite, however, is not a means of grace. It is a statement of loyalty and submission and commitment.

Right Colleen,
No use getting it mixed up with a means of grace, when I was re-baptized grace had come and my heart was tender toward the Lord, very tender, this was 33 some odd years ago to the best of my recollection, as far as I can remember at this time there is only one case of re-baptism in the new testament.
(Acts 19:3 KJV) And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
(Acts 19:4 KJV) Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
(Acts 19:5 KJV) When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
The Bible doesnít go into great detail of the ins and outs of this situation but I have to think that grace had come and these early Christians hearts were tender toward God. Paul did not state that this re-baptism was a necessity. Paul speaks an awful lot about conscience in his writings.
Now when I read those 28 fundamentals I was trying to understand what the fellow was talking about when his reports would be such as ìwe had 5 baptisms and 15 taking classes for baptism, nothing about anyone receiving Christ as their personal savior, not ever a word, only baptized into the Adventist church, and I have heard it mentioned many times by my Adventist friends also.
I had wondered many times about this, thinking, ìwhy do they need classes on baptism?î ìLook, here is waterî and ìThou mayestî for this you donít need classes!! All these thoughts were all coming from my direction of the outside looking in.
Now when I read these 28 fundamentals I thought ìwhat a conglomeration!!î and my thoughts were that the one being baptized, whether or not he believed every line he is condoning every line by his own action. You see, in my mind he has opened the door to deceit and so the deceit is propagated by being agreed to, it opens the door to further spiritual blindness that could very well carry down to his/her own children.
Thus blinded to the glory of the Lord Jesus Christ and may very well be sentencing themselves to a life of uncertainty and the resulting torment that can bring. Patria Rector stated that she was a happy Adventist as a child and young adult, that was the result of deceit being propagated donít you think?
So thus my exclamation upon reading this ìif that were me I would want to be re-baptizedî and apparently that thought has struck a cord with others, grace has come and hearts have become tender toward the Lord Jesus. I commit you to the Lord.
Now I have put years of hard work into this Adventist dilemma and these spirits of deceit have done their best to hide from me.
At times I have been tempted to lay it aside, turn it off, and have even made that decision because of discouragement and each time something happens and the Holy Spirit seems to say ìStick with it just a little longerî I have been learning to lean heavily on the Holy Spirit of late and not on my own understanding.
River
Ric_b
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Post Number: 666
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Posted on Tuesday, December 12, 2006 - 7:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Colleen, I fully understand your point about the view of believer's baptism. Certainly our view of what Baptism means and does will have an impact on our conclusions about the need for repeating it. Nonetheless, I think the questions that I posed apply to believer's baptism as well:

How accurate of doctrinal understanding is required of the person performing the baptism?

How accurate of doctrinal understanding is required of the person receiving baptism?

And, do I need to be rebaptized each time I come to understand more about God?

If you didn't believe in God when you were baptized initially, but were simply going through the motions, I can fully understand the desire to be baptized now that you do believe in God. My comments would apply more to the person who believed in God but didn't fully understand God.

I don't believe there is ONE answer, because of the different nature of each person's experience. If the Spirit is convicting you that you should be baptized after you have left, celebrate and follow His leading. But I don't think any person should feel guilty or "less than" or less saved because they have not been rebaptized outside of SDAism.
Ric_b
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Post Number: 667
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Posted on Tuesday, December 12, 2006 - 9:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

River, I must say respectfully that you are misunderstanding what is meant by those who understand baptism as a "means of grace." It does not mean that one can not experience grace unless they have been baptized. Rather it is a teaching that God actually acts in the baptism, not just the person.

It is not my desire with this post to debate whether baptism is a means of grace (I almost didn't post because I don't care to be drawn into debate on the subject), but only to point out the misunderstanding about what is generally meant by the term in Lutheran and Reformed theology.

Personally, I think that any understanding of baptism and the Lord's Supper involves a number of inferences and assumptions. We are told in Scripture to practice these. We are given some basic instruction in how to practice these. But we are not given a lot of detail and explanation, particularly about the underlying aspects or theology of these practices. Some of these details are filled in by our inferences, our assumptions, and (dare I say) our traditions. Given that background, I think we should be careful (hesitant) about judging one another in this regard. It may be useful to understand what one another actually believes on the subject, and even how they came to that belief. But it is important to recognize the limits of what Scripture has clear stated on the subjects and practice acceptance within those limits.
River
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Post Number: 234
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Posted on Tuesday, December 12, 2006 - 11:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My thinking was an approach from a spiritual stand point and too casting off any remaining vestiges of Adventism. It is my own opinion that once having been deceived by Adventism this may take many forms.
I want to give you part of Kathyís testimony from her post above titled ìIncrease in Adventist publicationsî hopefully without bringing any offense to her.
Quote:
I've been a Lutheran for 10 years. I don't read these publications at all. One day I glanced at one of them and felt the old guilt start in and the thought of "what if they are right about everything". I quickly threw the magazine in the trash. Now when the mail comes I throw it out right away. If I ask them to remove my name from the membership lists will the mail cease or will it take years? Just curious. I'm really getting annoyed with it.

Now if that had of been me I just might have taken my broom and beat the tar out of my mail box and anointed the thing with oil in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Now my neighbor would probably have yelled over ìHey River, why are you whacking your mail box?î or she might have said ìThereís that crazy old River over there whacking his mail boxî My answer would have been ìJust gettin rid a ratsî.

You see these spirits of deceit tried to use the smallest opening to try to trouble Kathyís mind, a piece of mail.
You see, Iím no stranger to this stuff, even after 35 or so years the devil will try to tempt me with alcohol in the most unexpected ways and I had complete deliverance over night with no cravings for the stuff later.
One time, I donít remember how long after the Lord delivered me from alcoholism, my brother saysî lets take the boat to the Colorado river below lake mead damî and I said ìSureî so off we went, we got way across the desert and a tire went flat, no spare, the truck moved about 20 feet before it started spinning inside the rim, nothing to do but walk, we walked a few miles and came upon a group of campers, they had nothing but beer in a big cooler with nothing left in it but filthy grassy water where they had been pawing in it since the day before, I was so thirsty, they said all they had was that. So I found me a dirty coke cup and tried to skim a little water out of that dirty, filthy dingy water and I looked down into that cup and looked over at my brother as he chuggaluged a beer, I turned the cup up and drank the water.
Today my brother is an alcoholic dope addict and to this day I have never taken a drink since my deliverance from the stuff. The devil set me up that day just as sure as I am sitting here, but the spirit of life said ìdrink the waterî. I rejected Satanís antics and I am alive too pray for my brother who is dead to the Spirit.
So when I said what I did I wasnít necessarily talking about baptism or re-baptism.
I am just out whacking mail boxís, thereís just bound to be a mail box somewhere that needs whacked.
River
Now I am going to quit whacking mail boxes and go make sheep herder soup, I suppose that is a great relief to Ric_B.
Ric_b
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Posted on Tuesday, December 12, 2006 - 12:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I just wanted to make sure that what you were hitting actually were rats and not moles.

Is that soup for sheep herders or made from sheep herders?
4truth
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Posted on Tuesday, December 12, 2006 - 3:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just cause we like to share here, I will chime in. I guess I believe more or less what Rick_b is saying. Baptism isn't a "work" we do, but an important gift from God. When I was baptized in an SDA church 34 years or so ago, it was by the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. I feel I probably became saved at that time, and my time of living as an agnostic and eventual spiritual awakening to a much more satisfying walk with Jesus was somehow in His plan for me all along. I feel no need for rebaptism, but sure wouldn't judge a person for wanting to do it. By the way, is there any precedence for the practice of rebaptism in the bible?
River
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Post Number: 235
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Posted on Tuesday, December 12, 2006 - 3:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ric_b,
See the post Dilemma of a Triscuit, about 4-5 post down for sheep herder soup, soup is for good people like yourself, no sheep herder parts, pieces, or parsals, not even his old boot.
I understood your post, they were good.
No one size fits all answers on Baptism, hope I didn't dent your mail box may friend.
River
River
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Post Number: 236
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Posted on Tuesday, December 12, 2006 - 3:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

4truth,
The only instance I know of in the Bible is Acts 19:3,4,5.
These early Christians had been Baptized by John, the thing is Jesus was also Baptized by John as were many others.
Snowboardingmom
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Posted on Tuesday, December 12, 2006 - 4:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was rebaptized last Good Friday. At the Church I was baptized at (Trinity), there is a tradition for each candidate to give their personal testimony at the service. I posted it before (last Good Friday), and thought it might be appropriate to post it again since it so adequately describes my feelings of what baptism meant for me.

Here it is:

My life has completely changed since I have come to truly know Jesus. I grew up in a Christian home so I knew of Him, but didnít really know Him. My religious upbringing put a lot of emphasis on works, so I had an unclear understanding of salvation and Jesusí role in my life. I understood that Jesus saved me, but to stay saved, I had a whole list of things I needed to do to earn and keep that salvation.

God has patiently taught me though that His grace fully covers me, and I am saved by His grace alone, and nothing else. There is absolutely nothing I can do to earn it, nor am deserving of it. With my previous checklist of works, I was ultimately still in control and in charge of my destiny. Changing this part of me, this inner need for control over my life, is where God began His miraculous conversion experience. God showed me that I had to completely surrender myself over to Him -- all of me. It meant I had to give up my pride so that I could be taught, and completely submit myself to Him so that He could work in me and guide me through His Spirit. I had to learn to put my trust completely in Him.

With praise, I can say that God is now in control of my life. I am a Christ follower, and an adopted daughter of God. It makes me so excited to say Iím a part of His family. Following Christ and having an intimate relationship with Jesus, just didnít change my life, but it gave me a whole new life. I am in awe and celebration of how truly freeing His grace is, and am so thankful for the assurance of salvation that He gives me.
***************************
I definitely feel that baptism is an individual, personal decision and there is no "set formula" that can be applied to "formers". For me, baptism was an expression of 2 Cor. 5:17 "Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come." As I said on a previous post, I am so thankful for those old things passing away, and am so excited about the new things in my life. I am a NEW creature IN Christ! For me, baptism symbolized my new birth. It wasn't a necessary part or step of the new birth (that already happened), nor was it a result of coming into "more understanding" and needing to "update" my status because of that. For me, baptism was a purely outward expression of my born again life -- dying to my old self, becoming alive in Christ.

Grace
River
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Username: River

Post Number: 237
Registered: 9-2006


Posted on Tuesday, December 12, 2006 - 5:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Grace,
Thank you for your testimony of Gods work in your life, what a journey ahead with Christ.
My baptism was the same, a purely outward expression of my born again life. Even though it was years ago it makes me happy to sit here and remember it.
God Bless you and yours.
River
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 5093
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Tuesday, December 12, 2006 - 6:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you for re-sharing your testimony, Grace. I understand your being a completely new creation!

Colleen
4truth
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Username: 4truth

Post Number: 13
Registered: 2-2006
Posted on Wednesday, December 13, 2006 - 5:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Grace,I thank you also for your testimony. Praise be to our unbelievably gracious God who has made us new creations in Him. I'm happy you could affirm your newfound depth of faith in a public way. May you never lose your excitement with and love of our savior Jesus!
Agapetos
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Username: Agapetos

Post Number: 644
Registered: 10-2002


Posted on Wednesday, December 13, 2006 - 6:55 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ric, thank you for this comment. I thought it was incredibly deep and true.

quote:

Personally, I think that any understanding of baptism and the Lord's Supper involves a number of inferences and assumptions. We are told in Scripture to practice these. We are given some basic instruction in how to practice these. But we are not given a lot of detail and explanation, particularly about the underlying aspects or theology of these practices. Some of these details are filled in by our inferences, our assumptions, and (dare I say) our traditions. Given that background, I think we should be careful (hesitant) about judging one another in this regard. It may be useful to understand what one another actually believes on the subject, and even how they came to that belief. But it is important to recognize the limits of what Scripture has clear stated on the subjects and practice acceptance within those limits.


I think what you wrote has opened my eyes to how we (Christians) can tend to wound one another with interpretations "beyond what is written", and how God has left many things open to personal understanding. Instead of giving us an air-tight explanation of each fine detail, I think one big reason He's done this is to actually teach us to have grace towards one another.
Ric_b
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Username: Ric_b

Post Number: 669
Registered: 7-2004


Posted on Wednesday, December 13, 2006 - 2:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Ramone,
I can sound as dogmatic as anyone at times. And on an impersonal medium like a discussion board that can be misunderstood as a judgment of the person. I think it is healthy to discuss both where we all agree and even where we have differences. But I think we need to have, and to show, the "grace towards one another" that you have mentioned.

I am thinking about getting one of those unbreakable plastic mailboxes though.
River
Registered user
Username: River

Post Number: 238
Registered: 9-2006


Posted on Wednesday, December 13, 2006 - 4:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Quote: And on an impersonal medium like a discussion board that can be misunderstood as a judgment of the person.
You hit the problem right on the nail head ric_b, sometimes we are misunderstood, thing is, I have encountered no one on the forum that does not act out of love and with the best feeling toward one another and certainly not judgmental or insensitive toward one another. I fact, personally I have seen more love shown here that is seldom shown anywhere, so if what one reads seems to look a little wrong it might be a good idea too just assume that the person speaks out of love and respect in the first place.
Every writer I have ever known has a certain writing style which in no way reveals he heart until one has read him for awhile, then in knowing the person through his writing style, you soon learn to recognize what seems out of character and to ignore it. If one looks for offense hard enough he will surely find it.
Now I am speaking to general audience and no one in particular.
River

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