| Author | Message | ||
| Tkmommy Registered user Username: Tkmommy Post Number: 3 Registered: 1-2007 |
Colleen, I read last night an archived post from 2003 where you stated you knew someone who was researching this connection at the time of the early church? Did anything come of that? I also read a mention of it on ellenwhite.org. It brought me back a few years when my sda BIL was dating a mormon (although NOT devout) and he was really disturbed by the similarities between sda and lds. I brought up the EGW/ mason sign story to hubby last night and he was disturbed by that, thankfully. | ||
| Mwh Registered user Username: Mwh Post Number: 453 Registered: 4-2006  |
This comparison between SDA and LDS from this blog post might be interesting: http://baronofdeseret.typepad.com/baronblog/2005/07/conversion_and_.html "From the Seventh Day Adventist perspective, the SDAs do have directly comparable doctrines to the Word of Wisdom, Tithing, and the Law of Chastity, and they usually follow them. If a distinction can be made between the LDS and SDA sides, it is in the area of enforcement rather than doctrine. Through the withholding of temple recommends (and other minor things such as not speaking in Church, performing priesthood ordinances, or holding a calling), the LDS Church has leverage (if you will) to enforce obedience of its key doctrines. I know of no comparable equivalent on the SDA or JW side, meaning the disobedience rate for all three churches may be the same (I have no idea), but disobedience plays a more significant role on the LDS side, because the Church has a means of 'separating' those who follow key doctrines and those who do not." In Him | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5200 Registered: 12-2003  |
Tkmommy, I don't have any further direct information about that person who has been doing the research of the possible LDS/SDA connection. Mwhówhat a fascinating quote! That is so interesting. Thanks for sharing. Colleen | ||
| Susans Registered user Username: Susans Post Number: 294 Registered: 8-2006 |
Perhaps Dennis can shed some light on this. I remember a few years ago he was editing a book a woman was writing on the similarities between EGW and Joseph Smith. Thanks, Mwh! I'll check out that blog. Susan | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 202 Registered: 7-2005  |
MWH quoted: "Through the withholding of temple recommends (and other minor things such as not speaking in Church, performing priesthood ordinances, or holding a calling), the LDS Church has leverage (if you will) to enforce obedience of its key doctrines. I know of no comparable equivalent on the SDA or JW side..." My response: Maybe there is no "official" policy in the SDA church on enforcing obedience to key doctrines, but I have witnessed with my own eyes and ears just how it's done within the SDA church. And I've read testimonies from others about how it's been done to them. I don't know what the Mormons mean by the "withholding of temple recommends," but it sounds like something that would affect a person's ability to hold a job or a position in a church. In the SDA church it's really the same. Just look at what happened to Dale Ratzlaff, Richard Tinker, Mark Martin and a host of others, when they didn't hold to key SDA doctrines. Brian4 was "defrocked" of his position as elder and Sabbath School teacher, when he made manifest his objections to key SDA doctrines. Now, in all fairness...any organization has the right to "cleanse" itself from influences it feels are causing division. If I were in a leadership position in a church and someone came in and started teaching that homosexuality was blessed by God, I'd be wanting that person to be corrected, disciplined, and taken out of a position of influence. From the view of SDA leadership, those who deny the "inspiration" of Ellen White are just as dangerous as what Evangelicals would consider someone who denies the diety of Christ. The question I have is this. If I find myself in an organization with whose basic tenets I disagree, should I stay and try to affect change from within? Or should I leave and find a group that believes as I believe? With Adventism, it seems that many of us have grown very weary of the seemingly impossible task of changing it from within. So we have had to leave. But that doesn't mean we can forget those who are still within the organization, especially when we have close friends or family members inside. * sigh * Then we resort to prayer, knowing the task is not impossible to God. Honestwitness | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5213 Registered: 12-2003 |
Exactly, Honestwitness. I see it exactly as you do. It is a matter of prayer. I pray for God to release people from their bondage to deception or dishonesty. The denomination itself is founded on deception, but God wants to release the people caught in the deception that keeps the veil over their hearts. God never promised blessings on denominations. He promised blessing on His peopleóthose whom He chooses and brings to Himself. Colleen | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 947 Registered: 4-2000  |
STRIKING SIMILARITIES BETWEEEN ELLEN WHITE AND JOSEPH SMITH JS: "It seemed to me as if I were doomed to sudden destruction..." PGP 48:15 EGW: "Total darkness gathered upon me and there seemed no way out of the shadows..." 1T25;LS 153 JS: "I saw a pillar of light exactly over my head..." PGP 48:16 EGW: "I dreamed of seeing one immense pillar...the light of heaven seemed to shine..." 1T 27; LS 15 [Ellen White's description of pillars, elevated seats, lights shining and a lamb tied to a pillar are all elements of the secret temple ceremonies] JS: Others tell him his "visions" are "of the devil" PGP 48:20 EGW: Others tell her that the "visions" are "of the devil" JS: "I did not profess to be a prophet" V5:231, 232 EGW:"I did not claim to be a prophetess" Review, July 26, 1906, p. 12 JS: THOSE WHO REJECT HIS "TESTIMONY" ARE UNDER CONDEMNATION DC 5:15; 16; 18 EGW:THOSE WHO REJECT HER "TESTIMONY" ARE UNDER CONDEMNATION 3T 361 JS: HIS "TESTIMONY" IS "RECORDED IN HEAVEN" FOR "ANGELS TO LOOK UPON" DC 62:3 EGW: HER "TESTIMONIES ANGELS WRITE IN A BOOK" 4T 107 JS: FIRST VISION: "A VOICE SPEAKING--SURROUNDED BY LIGHT" PGP 53:49 EGW: FIRST VISION: "SURROUNDED BY LIGHT--A VOICE SAID" 1T 58 JS: "I SAW LIGHT ABOVE BRIGHTNESS OF SUN" PGP 48:16 EGW:"I SAW AN EXCEEDING BRIGHT LIGHT" EV 38 JS: WARNS AGAINST EVILS IN THE CHURCH PGP 48:17-20 EGW: WARNS AGAINST EVILS IN THE CHURCH SG 273, 274; 227-228 JS: HIS WRITINGS ARE "SACRED" DC 3:1-2 EGW: HER WRITINGS ARE "SACRED" Letter to Fanny Bolton, February 6, 1894 JS: HIS BOOK "DOCTRINES AND COVENANTS" IS A BENEFIT TO THE WORLD DC 70 Preface EGW: HER BOOKS ARE A BENEFIT TO THE WORLD EGW letter 339; 1904 JS: GOD "SCOURGED THE JEWS" WHO "REJECTED" THE TRUE MESSIAH" - HE "SCATTERED THEM"-BUT BEFORE CHRIST RETURNS "THEY SHALL BE PERSUADED TO BELIEVE IN CHRIST" 2 Nephi 1:3;4;25:14-18 EGW: GOD "CURSED THE JEWS" FOR "REJECTING THE SAVIOUR"-HE "SCATTERED THEM"-BUT BEFORE CHRIST RETURNS "THEY WILL RECEIVE JESUS AS SAVIOUR" EV 75; SG 213 JS: CHAPTER TITLE ON "SCATTERING OF THE JEWS" WAS "THE GATHERING OF ISRAEL" 2 Nephi 25:4-18 EGW: CHAPTER TITLE ON "SCATTERING OF THE JEWS" WAS "THE GATHERING" Experience and Views, p. 75 JS: CARRIED AWAY ON "WINGS OF SPIRIT" TO HIGH MOUNTAIN 2 Nephi 4:25 EGW: CARRIED AWAY ON "WINGS" TO OTHER WORLDS ON HIGH Ev 39, 40 JS: "THE SAME SPIRIT THAT CRUCIFIED JESUS" IS THE SPIRIT OF THOSE WHO OPPOSE HIM AS A PROPHET JSH 5:510 EGW: "THE SAME COURSE THE JEWS PURSUED TOWARD CHRIST" IS THE SPIRIT OF THOSE WHO OPPOSE HER AS A PROPHET Manuscript Release #592 JS: "READY TO SINK INTO DESPAIR" PGP 48:16 EGW: "SETTLED DOWN IN DEEP DESPAIR" EV 11 JW: "IMMEDIATELY SEIZED UPON BY SOME POWER OVER ME AS TO BIND MY TONGUE SO I COULD NOT SPEAK PGP 48:14-16 EGW: "THE POWER OF GOD BEGAN TO REST UPON ME. IMMEDIATELY I WAS STRUCK DUMB. MY TONGUE WOULD BE LOOSED IN TWENTY-FOUR HOURS" EV 20-23 JS: "SATAN WILL STIR UP" UNBELIEF IN HIS "TESTIMONY" DC 10:32,33 EGW: "SATAN WILL STIR UP UNBELIEF" IN HER "TESTIMONY" 3T 343 JS: "WHILE CALLING UPON GOD I DISCOVERED LIGHT IN ROOM" PGP 50:30 EGW: "WHILE IN PRAYER A GREAT LIGHT FILLED THE ROOM" 5T 68 JS: "...The same heavenly messenger was again by my bedside..." PGP 52 EGW: "...The heavenly messenger said..." 7T 35; 3SM 71 JS: HAD "THE SPIRIT OF PROPHECY" PGP 56:73 EGW: HAD "THE SPIRIT OF PROPHECY" 5T 64 NOTE: Both Ellen White and Joseph Smith were short-term members of the Methodist Church (both were disfellowshipped for aberrant theology). The missionaries for both Ellen White and Joseph Smith required that converts first believe in their respective prophet/prophetess before being baptized. Dennis Fischer | ||
| Tkmommy Registered user Username: Tkmommy Post Number: 5 Registered: 1-2007 |
Dennis! Thanks so much for taking the time to post that list. Fascinating to say the least! Regarding the article linked by Mwh, and "temple recommends"...the lds church has 3 levels of heaven...the lowest being for "good" christians OUTSIDE the mormon church, the 2nd level being for baptized members of the lds church, the top level reserved for "temple mormons"...mormons that live up to the standards of the church....regular attendance to all meetings, partcipating in ministries, lifestyle habits (like no caffeine!)....they receive a "temple recommend" from their bishop..a temple pass if you will. you can't participate in temple services unless you receive this pass. And only those who participate in temple services are granted the top level in heaven. Just a FYI. SO, yeah I suppose the lds does have more "leverage" for obedience. Talk about a church based on works. | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 274 Registered: 11-2005 |
I found it quite fascinating that the early Mormon church's rejection of black people from the LDS priesthood was heavily influenced by Joseph Felding Smith's admiration of George McCready Price's evangelizing Ellen White's "divine enlightenment" about the amalgamation of man and beast, and the supposed inferiority of negroes. It is amazing that Ellen White had such an impact on offical LDS church doctrine! http://www.angelfire.com/mo2/blackmormon/q45.htm | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 948 Registered: 4-2000 |
MORMONISM TEACHES THAT HELL IS NOT A PLACE OF EVERLASTING PUNISHMENT. In their Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual, page 165, it says: "Hell will have an end." Interestingly, Adventists, Jehovah's Witnesses, and Mormons believe largely the same on this topic. These nineteenth-century cults certainly lack credibility in Christian apologetics. False religious systems repeatedly share a common thread. Indeed, Satan doesn't want anyone to believe that hell is forever. Dennis Fischer | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5245 Registered: 12-2003 |
That is interesting, Dennis. Colleen |
