| Author |
Message |
Grace_alone
Registered user
Username: Grace_alone
Post Number: 391
Registered: 6-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 12:06 pm: |     |
Blessed, thank you for sharing the "two things". They both really hit home with me. It's so true that the enemy wants to return us to places that God called us to leave. That can be said for so many situations.
Welcome to the fold! I look forward to reading more from you.
 Leigh Anne |
Spokenfor
Registered user
Username: Spokenfor
Post Number: 63
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 4:19 pm: | |
On the topic of Beth Moore's studies, I would like to mention that I have spent the past 10 week's doing her study called "Breaking Free; Making Freedom in Christ a Reality in Life". It is the first Beth Moore study I've done and it has been tremendously helpful in healing the pain and trauma of leaving adventism. It's been 3 years since I formally left and the 'recovery' process is still going on. Breaking Free has helped me to identify issues and baggage related to adventism, allowing the Lord to heal those places, and then letting them go and moving forward. I highly recommend it to anyone struggling with post adventism feelings of depression, anger, loss and sadness. |
Dd
Registered user
Username: Dd
Post Number: 783
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 6:52 pm: | |
Spokenfor,
I took the Beth Moore "Breaking Free" study a couple summers ago. I found it to be one of the most freeing experiences of my life. I think every former Adventist should take this course. It is a great "recovery" study in moving forward to an authentic life of true and lasting freedom in Jesus.
Blessings,
Denise |
Blessed
Registered user
Username: Blessed
Post Number: 4
Registered: 1-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 7:53 pm: | |
I agree with both Spokenfor and Dd. I also took Breaking Free a couple of years ago and even though I left Adventism 37 ago I still had some areas that I struggled with and this study helped tremendously.
We just finished our second Daniel lesson and one of the things that Beth is doing and has encouraged us to consider is living like Daniel did and not eating rich meats for 6 weeks. I am struggling with this because it reminds me of Adventism. Can anyone relate?
Blessed |
Bmorgan
Registered user
Username: Bmorgan
Post Number: 114
Registered: 7-2000
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 8:05 pm: | |
Susan, like you, I prefer doing the study with a group but you can successfully do it on your own.
You can purchase the materials online, from Precept International, study on your own, then go through/read the transcripts of the video lectures which they watch at the classes.
Precept Austin has made the transcripts of the video available as a free service online.
http://preceptaustin.org/revelation_-_part_2_-_lecture_1.htm
Spokenfor, I agree with you about the "Breaking Free" study. It was very helpful during the early stages of my processing out of the spiritual bondage of Adventism.
Blessed, welcome to the forum. Waiting to hear your story. Thanks for sharing about your Daniel study.
ErmaB |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 5271
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 8:18 pm: | |
Blessed, my take on Beth Moore's suggestion is that I would treat it much like I treat all types of "fasting" suggestions. If God is nudging you to give up rich meats for a time of prayer, go for it as an "offering " to Him. Undoubtedly because of my Adventist background, however, I would consider such a suggestion as simply one person's suggestionónot as a mandate or even as a "good idea" for spiritual growth.
Our obedience now is to Jesus.
Colleen |
Javagirl
Registered user
Username: Javagirl
Post Number: 350
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 8:59 pm: | |
Blessed, welcome!
I just finished that study. I liked the way Beth handled the suggestion re the partial fast. She nudged, but did not make it an issue, and cautioned others about making it an issue. It would have been helpful to relate to Daniel and his friends, but I struggled like you said, and ultimately declined!
I had a strong, negative reaction partway thru the study. I felt like I was under spiritual attack. I will copy something I posted on the forum from that day:
"Today at bible study, (Daniel) I was shocked by my reaction when Daniel 7 was read aloud. (I have been really enjoying the study of Daniel.)
Anyway, when Daniel 7 was read, I unexpectantly broke into sobs, and had such a deep feeling of unrest, even confusion, almost what I would describe as a post-traumatic stress reaction.
I had to leave to get myself together, then pretty much numbed out the rest of the study. My group prayed for me after the study, and I did get some relief and clarity, but have still had much unrest throughout the day...."
OH, just reading that makes my stomache go into knots. The good news is, many people prayed, God held me, and I finished the study. I was greatly blessed by it all. Dont forget to put on the armor of God when studying those adventist strongholds.
When adventists say they are studying Daniel and revelation, they mean of course only the investigative judgement and the three angels messages, and one or two other verses.
Who knew Daniel had so many subplots and rich story lines! All my life I thought it revolved around 2300 days....
There is so much more meat in Daniel and Revelation. I studied Revelation for a whole year, and feel like I am just getting started!
Enjoy the study. The friendly captivity part I related to adventism as well.
Lori |
Raven
Registered user
Username: Raven
Post Number: 705
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 - 4:33 am: | |
Why would Beth Moore encourage people to try giving up rich meats to live like Daniel did for a time period? I know we were all taught Daniel was trying to stay true to the lifestyle he was raised with, being a vegetarian. But that's not reality. Daniel, being a Jew, was not raised a vegetarian but he did have kosher concerns with the meat. Since that was the issue, it was probably easier to go vegetarian while under the king than to constantly be concerned with kosherness.
So if Daniel wasn't doing it because it was God's way for humans to eat, and he wasn't doing it for spiritual reasons, i.e. to be more in tune with God, then why should we - especially as free Christians - try to mimic him for any time period? His purpose for doing it wasn't even for fasting!
Guess I never have been the type to follow "steps" or programs for creating an experience. Instead I try to just live each day in the reality of being "in Jesus." But then, maybe it's a kinetic thing, for those who learn better through doing. Just don't try that with the lion's den! |
Blessed
Registered user
Username: Blessed
Post Number: 5
Registered: 1-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 - 7:32 am: | |
In the video Beth said that she wanted to experience some of the things that Daniel did and so chose to stay away from rich meats for a six week period while she was teaching the integrity part of the Daniel study. She was very clear that it was her choice to do that and it was not compulsory for every one. She also went to great lengths to explain that this was not a legalistic thing and did not want it to become one but she wanted to have a feeling of what it was like for Daniel to make that choice. Beth pointed out that some of the meat at the King's table would not have been kosher so it may have been easier for Daniel just to abstain.
Javagirl thanks for sharing your experience. I am wondering how I will react when I get to that point but as I have said in earlier posts it has been 37 years since I left Adventism so it may not be significant for me. I will let you know when I get to that point in the study.
Blessed |
Helovesme2
Registered user
Username: Helovesme2
Post Number: 788
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 - 7:51 am: | |
I did not fast during that period that Beth Moore suggested it either. I've found fasting particular things (not necessarily food) to be helpful from time to time, but when it was suggested as part of this study my reaction was that I'd been 'fasting' most of my life as an Adventist and was not ready to give up the beautiful freedom God has brought me to for this suggestion (and it was only a suggestion).
Javagirl, thank you for re-sharing your experience with the Daniel study. Seems I somehow missed you posting about it before. Reading your experience helps me not feel quite so alone in my own reaction! |
Raven
Registered user
Username: Raven
Post Number: 706
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 - 8:38 am: | |
Thanks for the explanation, Blessed. Good to hear that Beth understands why Daniel abstained. That really would have been a harder choice for him under the circumstances. If he was a vegetarian as SDA's teach, then it was no big deal to choose to eat as he was used to eating and in fact it would have been difficult for him to make himself eat the meat! But if he was used to eating meat regularly as Jews were, then it may have been a tougher choice to go to vegetarianism. He could have just not ate the obvious (like pig) and decided what he didn't know couldn't hurt him on the rest. Then God blessed him for it, as promised in the Old Covenant for keeping the Jewish laws. |
Helovesme2
Registered user
Username: Helovesme2
Post Number: 790
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 - 8:54 am: | |
BTW, while Daniel was vegetarian for the testing period he was NOT vegetarian all his life. If he had been then the experience mentioned in chapter 10 (vs 2 and three) when, as he wrote, "I, Daniel, mourned for three weeks. I ate no choice food; no meat or wine touched my lips; and I used no lotions at all until the three weeks were over" would have made much less sense. If he was vegetarian (and drank only water) all his life then why would he say "no meat or wine touched my lips" for three weeks? |
Jeremy
Registered user
Username: Jeremy
Post Number: 1681
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 - 9:56 am: | |
In Daniel 1, it actually does not even mention meat, but says, "The king assigned them a daily amount of food and wine from the king's table." (Daniel 1:5 NASB.)
Perhaps the food and wine had been offered to idols. Also, none of the meat would have been kosher, not even the beef. In order to be kosher, it had to be killed and prepared in a certain way, including draining the blood from it.
Whatever the reason(s), it says that "Daniel resolved not to defile himself with the royal food and wine." (Daniel 1:8 NASB.)
As Mary pointed out, however, once Daniel became a high-ranking government official, he was obviously able to have the food he wanted, prepared the way he wanted it--including "tasty food," meat, and wine.
Jeremy |
Aliza
Registered user
Username: Aliza
Post Number: 150
Registered: 8-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 - 6:48 pm: | |
One point that came out on the video was that in the culture, if you shared their food, then it was of covenant significance. This was another reason outside of the unclean meats reason for making a choice of asking for something different.
I just did the first lesson today. Fantastic! Beth is high energy and passionate--two great qualities in my book.
And Blessed, the two points you mentioned from Chapter 1--I too kept relating them to Adventism.
Aliza |
Blessed
Registered user
Username: Blessed
Post Number: 6
Registered: 1-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 - 7:32 pm: | |
A number of you have asked for my faith story. It is quite long so I will post it in sections. Here is the first part.
My first recollection of the SDA church was being taken there by my mom when I was a preschooler. I remember being taught that we were right and everyone else was wrong. I was taught that the reason we had the ìtruthî was because we had a prophetess who had visions and her writings were inspired by God and helped us interpret scripture. As a child growing up in the SDA church there were many times when I felt embarrassed because we were so different. My friends could never understand why I had so many rules and they felt sorry for me.
My mother tried very hard to make Sabbath worship fun but for me as a child, I constantly felt guilt because I would want to do something that wasnít allowed on the Sabbath. Because my father was not an SDA he would put on the radio on Saturday mornings to listen to the news, sports and weather. I remember hearing an advertising jingle and often it would stay in my mind while I was at church. I was convinced that I was doomed for hell because I had this song in my head. I knew that I was always doing or thinking something wrong and was very scared that I would die and go to Hell. The list of doníts were extremely long and at times I felt like a prisoner. My personality was such that I asked a lot of questions and I know that my poor mom got pretty frustrated with me. The answer always came back to we are the remnant church and should be wiling to give all these things up for Christ. I lived my life in fear of God rather than loving Him.
I was baptized at the age of 10 and the major motivator in that decision was peer pressure. I almost didnít get baptized because I had many questions about Ellen G. White. It is interesting that even at the young age of 10 I felt that something was wrong and that the Bible should be our only authority. The minister at that time said that I would probably change my mind as I got older and allowed me to be baptized. I had attended public school from Kindergarten to Grade 4 but in grade 5 my mom enrolled me in the church school. I remember hearing many sermons about the fact that children who were not in church school often left the church when they were older. I am sure that weighed heavily on my mom and was a major motivator in her decision. My father was not in agreement with this and my mom took in a child at lunchtime as well as giving up a lot of things for herself to pay for my schooling.
I remember a minister coming in for week of prayer meetings and one of the questions asked was ìWhat would happen if we died suddenly and hadnít had time to confess a sinî. The minister replied that God would look at our whole life and if we were basically good people and had asked for forgiveness for most of our sins then He probably would let us into heaven. I knew that I did a lot of wrong things so his answer just made me more anxious. I remember constantly hearing about how wrong every other church was, especially the Catholics, and how Sabbath observance would be the big test during the time of trouble and that we must be prepared to go to prison for our observance of the Sabbath. I was sure that I would be put in prison for my faith at some time in my life. I memorized the Third Angels Message. I was taught the doctrine of the Investigative Judgment: that in 1844 Jesus went from the holies to the holy of holies to start judging the books of everyone that had ever lived. At some point my life would be judged and He would look over my whole life and determine whether I should be allowed into heaven. If He closed the book of my life while I was still alive then I would not sin again until I died but I would not be aware that I wasnít sinning. My salvation was based on being a baptized member of the Seventh-day Adventist church and living a good life. At school we spent a lot of time talking about make-up, jewelry, music, eating meat, Ellen G. White and whether it was right for us to go bowling, to the movie theatre and dancing. Those topics came up far more frequently than the Gospel message. I attended the SDA School from grade 5 to my first year in grade 9. I remember initially being quite shocked at the rebellion in some of the students at the school and especially their attitudes towards their parents. I found myself being drawn in by it and doing things that I knew were wrong because I wanted to be accepted. There was a lot of tension at home because I was starting to change and become rebellious. There were many times during my early teen years when I questioned what I was being taught but was always told that I was in the ìtrue churchî and that I would be rewarded some day for doing what I was taught. I remember being constantly challenged on what was not acceptable with regards to conduct and food but remember very little emphasis on Christ and his love and why He died on the cross. I failed Grade 9 and my dad insisted that I change to public school.
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Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 3332
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 - 7:48 pm: | |
Thank you for your first chapter. I look forward to the rest of you journey.
When I read the journeys of the ones who post on here, I am so thankful that each of you are here and that God now has you in His hands and will not drop you or let you go. He is always awesome.
Diana |
Blessed
Registered user
Username: Blessed
Post Number: 7
Registered: 1-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 - 8:06 pm: | |
Here's the last part.
It was in my second year in Grade 9 that I met a girl who was a Christian who eventually became a close friend. Her faith was very important to her but she never preached or was judgmental. She had a joy that unfortunately I did not see in most of the people at my church. I spent time in her home and felt accepted there. Her family often invited me for dinner and I sensed that they were praying for me.
In High School I started dating a guy from school and was ecstatic that I had found someone who would want to love me. He was not an SDA so my mom was not happy about this. There was a lot of tension in my home over this relationship but my need to be loved was so great I was willing to put up with anything. I brought him to a few church activities and told him that we were the ìtrue churchî but he had no interest in becoming an SDA. We dated for a year and then he broke up with me. I was devastated. In my devastation I decided to get more involved in the church hoping that would take the pain away. All my involvement did was leave me more frustrated, upset and with a deep emptiness inside. It was at that time that I reached for my Bible and starting searching the Scriptures without any other influence to determine what was really the truth.
At this point I chose to reconnect with my girlfriend from junior high. We were both attending the same high school now and sang in the choir. The choir had a trip planned to another province so I approached her and asked if she would be willing to do a Bible study with me at some point during our trip. I told her that I would prepare all my verses on the importance of keeping the Sabbath and she should prepare her reasons for worshipping on Sunday. I was convinced that I had it ìacedî and that she would see the importance of Sabbath observance. I spent many hours preparing for the study and had all my verses ready to convince her that Sabbath worship was right and that Sunday worship was wrong. We did our study and I walked her through all the verses on Sabbath keeping. She then shared with me verses about salvation through grace and talked to me about Christís love and the gift of salvation that Christ made available to us at the cross. She explained the difference between the old and new covenants and why Sabbath observance was no longer required. I came back from that trip and continued to study the Scriptures in earnest. I read the books of Galatians, Ephesians and Romans and saw for the first time the beautiful gift of grace that Christ had given me at the cross. Passages such as Ephesians 2:8,9 became alive to me and I started to be convicted that what I was being taught was not consistent with the Scriptures. Romans 14 taught me that what I eat and which day I worship on is between God and I and should not be legislated. Galatians 3 taught me that I was not justified by keeping the law but by faith in Jesus Christ. The relationship between the law and grace became clear to me for the first time. It also became clear to me that the church that I had been raised in was not Biblically correct in many of its doctrines and I needed to be obedient to Christ and make a change. I was 18 years of age at that time.
The change that I needed to make happened in a way that I would not have expected, but one that had a profound effect on me. One day I found myself in the kitchen of my home telling my mom that I was not going to attend the Adventist church any longer. I do not remember planning the conversation ahead of time or of walking into the kitchen. As I heard the words come out of my mouth I remember thinking ìI canít believe I am doing thisî and yet I knew that the Lord was giving me the gentle push that I needed to make this decision. My mom cried and said that she felt that she had failed as a mother. I felt her anguish, but I knew that this was the right decision for me. In all of this I had peace.
The following Sunday I attended a Baptist church close to my home. My friend from school was German so attending her church was not an option for me. I remember noting how many women were wearing jewelry and questioning how they could be Christians and do this. The minister was very supportive and answered my many questions. Eventually I began playing the piano for the church services and got involved on the College and Career planning committee. I continued to search the scriptures and on December 21, 1969 I went forward at an altar call after a Sunday School Christmas program and committed my life to Jesus Christ. That day everything became clear to me. Jesus had completed the law at the cross and I was now free. I now knew that my salvation was not based on what I did or did not do. The relief was phenomenal. I was now free to love and obey Him because of His love and sacrifice for me, not because I was under the law.
My life has been changed forever since the night I asked Christ into my life. Words always seem so inadequate to describe what Jesus means to me. I now have a freedom in Christ that allows me to obey Him because of my love for Him not because I am bound by rules and regulations. My knowledge of Him comes from the scriptures alone, not someone elseís interpretation of the scriptures through visions.
Since that time I met a wonderful Christian man and we were married in 1973. We have been blessed with three children who are now grown adults and are serving Him.
I continue to be amazed at how the Lord works in my life. A couple of years ago I took a womanís Bible study entitled Breaking Free by Beth Moore. I had worked through many issues with regards to my SDA upbringing but this study helped me to deal with a couple of issues that were still hanging on. One day I was looking for a book entitled Who Changed the Sabbath by Richard DeHaan from Back to the Bible to share with someone I work with who is an SDA. In trying to locate the book I stumbled across a website entitled FormerAdventist.com. I will never forget sitting at my computer and reading testimony after testimony of people who have journeyed very similarly to me and have found Christ. I was overwhelmed. It had been 35 years since I had committed my life to Christ and I always felt very alone in my spiritual journey because I did not know of anyone who had left the Seventh-day Adventist church and become a born-again Christian. Now I knew that I was not alone. There have been a number of occasions in the past where I shared with my mom some of the things that I had experienced growing up in the church. Her reply to me was that I couldnít have been taught was I was telling her and that I was confused. Reading othersí stories that have had similar experiences has really released me. The Lordís timing was just what I needed and I am indeed free.
To conclude I recently took another study by Beth Moore entitled Believing God. In that study we looked at the Children of Israelís journey as they crossed the Jordan. God asked them to take twelve stones from the middle of the Jordan according to the twelve tribes and set them up as a remembrance to what God had done for them for generations to come. Beth encouraged each of us to write down our testimonies so that our future generations would have a record of what the Lord has done in our lives. This testimony is a rock that I will pass down to my children, their children and their childrenís children. May Jesus Christ be praised.
Blessed |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 3333
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 - 8:24 pm: | |
Oh, Blessed, God is so good. I thought I was alone in leaving adventism 3 years ago and then God brought me here. I am so glad you found FAF and have found that you are not the only one who has passed through various experiences.
Thanks for the second chapter and what has happened since you left adventism and have become a member of God's large family.
Welcome again.
Diana
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Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 5273
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 - 8:42 pm: | |
Blessed, thank you so much for sharing your story here. I'm thrilled that you are with us!
Colleen |
Jeremy
Registered user
Username: Jeremy
Post Number: 1682
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 - 9:39 pm: | |
Thanks so much for sharing your marvelous testimony, Blessed! I was very blessed by it. It's great, it needs to be put on the Stories section of this website!
Jeremy |
Blessed
Registered user
Username: Blessed
Post Number: 8
Registered: 1-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, January 18, 2007 - 7:36 am: | |
As we have been discussing the book of Daniel and the topic of Babylon, I found it interesting that on the website www.worldslastchance.com there is an article entitled: SDA Church of Today Part of Babylon or God's Remnant Church. You might find it an interesting read.
Blessed |
Blessed
Registered user
Username: Blessed
Post Number: 9
Registered: 1-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, January 18, 2007 - 7:23 pm: | |
I made a mistake in the title of the article on the www.worldslastchance.com website. It should have read: Is The SDA Church Fallen or God's True Church. This appears on the left hand side of the home page. If you click on that title then you will see: SDA Church of Today Part of Babylon or God's Remnant Church as the title of the article. Sorry for the confusion.
Blessed |
Susans
Registered user
Username: Susans
Post Number: 382
Registered: 8-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2007 - 8:47 am: | |
Blessed,
Thank you so much for sharing your story of leaving Adventism and embracing Jesus as our only hope and Saviour! He is indeed the "desire of the ages".
One part of your story brought tears to my eyes: "At this point I chose to reconnect with my girlfriend from junior high. We were both attending the same high school now and sang in the choir. The choir had a trip planned to another province so I approached her and asked if she would be willing to do a Bible study with me at some point during our trip. I told her that I would prepare all my verses on the importance of keeping the Sabbath and she should prepare her reasons for worshipping on Sunday. I was convinced that I had it ìacedî and that she would see the importance of Sabbath observance. I spent many hours preparing for the study and had all my verses ready to convince her that Sabbath worship was right and that Sunday worship was wrong. We did our study and I walked her through all the verses on Sabbath keeping. She then shared with me verses about salvation through grace and talked to me about Christís love and the gift of salvation that Christ made available to us at the cross. She explained the difference between the old and new covenants and why Sabbath observance was no longer required. I came back from that trip and continued to study the Scriptures in earnest. I read the books of Galatians, Ephesians and Romans and saw for the first time the beautiful gift of grace that Christ had given me at the cross. Passages such as Ephesians 2:8,9 became alive to me and I started to be convicted that what I was being taught was not consistent with the Scriptures. Romans 14 taught me that what I eat and which day I worship on is between God and I and should not be legislated. Galatians 3 taught me that I was not justified by keeping the law but by faith in Jesus Christ. The relationship between the law and grace became clear to me for the first time. It also became clear to me that the church that I had been raised in was not Biblically correct in many of its doctrines and I needed to be obedient to Christ and make a change. I was 18 years of age at that time."
The gospel of Jesus Christ and His act of saving us really does put everything else in it's place. I pray for my Adventist friends and loved ones that they will come to the knowledge of the truth in Jesus and not place their faith in Sabbath or any of the other shadows that point to Christ!
I'm glad you are here. You have greatly encouraged me with your posts and I look forward to reading many more!
In Christ,
Susan
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