| Author | Message | ||
| Rejoyce719 Registered user Username: Rejoyce719 Post Number: 9 Registered: 1-2007 |
When I was Adventist a friend once said to me that "you can not even keep the Sabbath in Alaska". Now I see your comments, HonestWitness. As I was flying across country recently, I was still SDA, it was Friday and the sunset began. I watched the sky change into many beautiful colors and my friends's commment came to my mind. Is it Sabbath now, should I go by the state's time that I left, should I go by the state's time that I landed in? There were, of course, hours difference in the times. This is a subject I am still studying. | ||
| Godssonjp Registered user Username: Godssonjp Post Number: 12 Registered: 1-2007 |
Correct me if I'm wrong but, right now, it's 3:25pm, Saturday, EST, and half-way accross the world, Sabbath is over. And Sabbath will continue to go on 3 more hours after the sunsets, on the west coast, USA, when it ends here on the east coast. I guess, to be safe, all SDAs should keep Sabbath for at least 2 days so they don't have to worry about breaking it. | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 783 Registered: 8-2004  |
When I was in Alaska (I was there for about six months), just a bit north of the Arctic Circle, Sabbath keeping was a challenge to say the least! The consensus we came to as a group of lay Adventist missionaries was that each person was to decide for themselves. We had church on Sabbath morning (or where Sabbath morning should fall according to the calender) but each individual Adventist or family then chose what time to consider as the beginning or end of the Sabbath. Some people did the midnight to midnight thing, others the six to six, others, so long as there was a sun in the sky at some time of the day or night used sundown to sundown, even when sundown was at two o'clock in the morning. Some of us argued that if it was sundown to sundown shouldn't the 'long dark' or 'long light' be whatever day it became at sundown of the day before? We had fun theorizing what to do with a whole summer or winter of Sabbath . . . or without one. It made for some fun mental acrobatics - if you're inclined to enjoy such - but was not particularly profitable any way around.  It does make for interesting memories however! | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 784 Registered: 8-2004 |
Oh, and there were also some who talked about 'Jerusalem time' - when in doubt, figure out what time it is in Jerusalem and act accordingly. Not quite sure how that works with the date line and such! Mary | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3300 Registered: 3-2004  |
I have learned more being out of the SDA church than I ever learned while a member. I never heard any problems with time in the US or over seas, much less in Alaska and the extreme northern countries. And now Jerusalem time!!! Thank God, I no longer have to be concerned about that. All we need is Jesus. He is awesome. Diana | ||
| U2bsda Registered user Username: U2bsda Post Number: 427 Registered: 11-2004 |
If I remember right EGW said something like go by 6pm-6pm if you live in those areas of the world where the sun doesn't set or rise. What would happen if you fly around the world and totally miss a day and what if that day was the Sabbath, how would one fix that? I guess you are supposed to be traveling on Sabbath | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 696 Registered: 7-2004  |
As an SDA, I had no trouble with the concept that the Sabbath hours were according to where you lived. Of course I never thought about places like Alaska. What I found so puzzling for the last several years as an SDA were the many different opinions of what's acceptable or not acceptable for the Sabbath. I've probably posted some of this before, but we had some very conservative SDA friends who were perfectly comfortable playing real cards (poker) during Sabbath, but not playing pool until after Sabbath. Some other friends were over at our house and they allowed their child to play darts. When we suggested foosball, the mom said in total shock "Not on the Sabbath!" It just seemed to me that during OT times, there were very few gray areas. God was incredibly specific about His requirements. So what changed? There just isn't this same kind of differences of what's acceptable or not when it comes to the other 9 of the commandments. I was puzzled about how could the Sabbath be an end-time test when it's so difficult to know if a person is truly keeping it, and when there are as many different interpretations as there are people on how to keep it. Makes much more sense when one realizes the Sabbath was given to Israel, in a specific time and place. God never gave the Sabbath to Alaskans! | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3302 Registered: 3-2004 |
Raven, LOL!! God never gave the Sabbath to Alaskans. Diana | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 697 Registered: 7-2004 |
I love how simple the true Gospel is. If you have Jesus, you are saved (not if you have the Sabbath you are saved). If you have Jesus, you will be known by your love for one another (not you will be known by your commitment to Sabbath-keeping)! Therefore, setting aside personal time for God (and/or worship time for God), whenever that may be, is a personal choice due to our freedom in Jesus. It is not a requirement for or indicator of salvation. (Message edited by Raven on January 13, 2007) | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3303 Registered: 3-2004 |
That is what struck me first when I read the NT 3 years ago. When we love and accept Jesus that is all we need. Raven, it is simple. I was surprised I did not see it earlier in my life. So, I thank God for where I am at this time in my life. Diana | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 386 Registered: 6-2006  |
Amen, Raven! Jesus is our Sabbath rest. Also, I appreciate your question - " how could the Sabbath be an end-time test when it's so difficult to know if a person is truly keeping it, and when there are as many different interpretations as there are people on how to keep it." I might have to ask my husband that some time if it comes up... Leigh Anne | ||
| Bmorgan Registered user Username: Bmorgan Post Number: 107 Registered: 7-2000 |
Below are quotes from the General Conference of SDA guidelines for Sabbath observance, in THEIR own words. I did not consider myself an Historic Adventist but these were the guideslines I followed, or at least tried and died (spiritually)trying. The importance of "Sabbath" is staunch idolatry in my opinion. The mention of Jesus, being the ALL in ALL is noticably absent. Is the General Conference of SDA considered a branch of the Historic Adventists? I still find it hard to understand why certain people accuse former SDA of being harsh, unfair, misrepresenting or misunderstanding Adventism. As a former Adventist, myself, a "has-been" and sometimes wishing I am "a-never-was-one", I have experienced death in my soul idolizing Sabbath but not KNOWING Jesus. Praise God, for His resurrection power and Jesus Christ my Lord and Savior in whom I rest. http://www.adventist.org/beliefs/other_documents/other_doc6.html 3) Two Sacred Institutions--The Home and the Sabbath. "In the beginning" God placed a man and a woman in the Garden of Eden as their home. Also, "in the beginning" God gave to human beings the Sabbath. These two institutions, the home and the Sabbath, belong together. Both are gifts from God. Therefore both are sacred, the latter strengthening and enriching in its unique manner the bond of the former. Close fellowship is an important element of the home. Close fellowship with other human beings also is an important element of the Sabbath. It binds families closer to God and binds the individual members closer to one another. Viewed from this perspective, the importance of the Sabbath to the home cannot be overestimated. 4) Responsibilities of Adults as Teachers. In choosing Abraham as the father of the chosen people, God said, "I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him" (Gen 18:19). It seems clear, then, that an enormous responsibility has been given to adults in the home for the spiritual- welfare of their children. By both precept and example, they must provide the kind of structure and atmosphere that will make the Sabbath a delight and such a vital part of Christian living that, long after leaving the home, the children will continue the customs they were taught in childhood. In harmony with the injunction, "Thou shalt teach them (God's commandments) diligently unto thy children" (cf Dent 6:4-9), the adult members of the family should teach their children to love God and keep His commandments. They should teach them to be loyal to God and to follow His directives. From earliest infancy, children should be taught to participate in family worship so that worship in the house of God will become an extension of a family custom. Also from infancy, children should be taught the importance of church attendance, that true Sabbath observance involves going to God's house for worship and Bible study. Adults in the family should set the example by attending services on Sabbath, providing a pattern that will be seen as important when their children make decisions on what is of value in life. Through discussions, as the children grow older and more mature, and through Bible study, the children should be taught the meaning of the Sabbath, its relationship to Christian living, and the enduring quality of the Sabbath. 5) Preparation for the Sabbath. If the Sabbath is to be observed properly, the entire week should be programmed in such a way that every member will be ready to welcome God's holy day when it arrives. This means that the adult family members will plan so that all household tasks--the buying and preparing of food, the readying of clothes, and all the other necessities of everyday life--will be completed before sundown Friday. The day of rest should become the pivot around which the wheel of the entire week turns. When Friday night approaches and sundown is near, adults and children will be able to greet the Sabbath with tranquility of mind, with all preparation finished, and with the home in readiness to spend the next 24 hours with God and with one another. Children can help achieve this by carrying Sabbath preparation responsibilities commensurate with their maturity. The way the family approaches the beginning of the Sabbath at sundown on Friday night and the way Friday night is spent will set the stage for receiving the blessings that the Lord has in store for the entire day which follows." | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3304 Registered: 3-2004 |
Bmorgan, I understand what you are saying above about trying to follow the above rules. I tried also and failed miserably. I am just so thankful God has brought me into the larger body of His family. Diana | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 206 Registered: 7-2005  |
Staunch idolatry, indeed! These instructions would have been very appropriate for Israel BEFORE Christ died and the veil in the Temple was torn in two from top to bottom. Just substitute "Jesus Christ" or "relationship with Jesus Christ" for "Sabbath" in many of these sentences, and you get the proper meaning. I remember listening to my SDA husband pray many times and he would ask God to reveal the truth of the Sabbath to our unsaved relatives. I would keep waiting for him to ask God to reveal the truth of Jesus Christ to their hearts, but he would just say, "Amen." He's gotten better about this in recent years, though. Honestwitness | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 1679 Registered: 10-2004  |
U2, actually the 6pm-6pm thing was how the early Adventists, including EGW, kept the Sabbath for about the first decade. (In other words, they were not keeping "the true Sabbath" themselves, while condemning others for not keeping "the true Sabbath"!!) Regarding places like Alaska, EGW took her frustration out on the lands themselves and said they were horrible places to live!  Then she concluded by saying that the exact time the Sabbath is kept is unimportant!
There you have it. According to EGW, the precise hours of the Sabbath don't matter. Well, I suppose that keeping Sunday should not be a problem then? Also notice how she wrote that the world was round in that quote from 1900 (this fact had been proven and known for many centuries already). But 4 years later, in the following quotes from 1904, she wrote that it was impossible to know whether the earth was round or flat!
And in 1887, she wrote:
Jeremy (Message edited by jeremy on January 13, 2007) | ||
| U2bsda Registered user Username: U2bsda Post Number: 430 Registered: 11-2004 |
Thanks Jeremy. You sure know alot about EGW. So what is sundown actually? Is it when the sun his totally down, part-way down, or starting to go down? I know there are sunset calendars, but what do they use to determine the time of sundown. I know that when the time on ths sunset calendar came around it was not totally dark outside. I talked with an Adventist today and when the person called I looked outside and there was still a a small amount of daylight in the sky. The person was calling from a store so I figured the time on the sunset calendar had come and gone. | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 367 Registered: 9-2006  |
I think sunset is when the rim of the sun is no longer visible on the horizon, guess if it's cloudy or your clocks off, your done for. | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 698 Registered: 7-2004 |
SDA's do have sunset calendars - the exact time certainly does matter to some. And it's usually printed in the bulletins. I remember the year before we officially left the SDA church we had my mom stay at our house with our kids while we went out of town. The kids complained when we came home that Grandma made them turn the TV off Friday because it was "sundown" but it sure looked light out to them! I had never bothered explaining those sort of details to our kids and it made me laugh. I then had to explain that to many SDA's, there is an exact minute of sundown that certainly doesn't match what the sky looks like. | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 369 Registered: 9-2006 |
Raven, It sure do look funny to me to turn that evil eye off at the sundown when its ok to watch it during the rest of the week. course i'm a seven dayer a week myself,I wonder if they watch hell's box office er, I mean HBO during the week? course it comes right down to it I probably wonder too much. | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 699 Registered: 7-2004 |
My mom is a very consistent SDA--I have to give her credit for that. If she had her way, the kids wouldn't have been watching any TV - I grew up without it. But being in our house with our rules, she compromised the best she could and allowed the kids to do as they're used to, except when it would interfere with her Sabbath. |
