| Author | Message | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 444 Registered: 9-2006  |
The problem with Adventism. Due to the refusal of E.G.W and other of the earliest Adventist to repent of date setting and return to their homes, farms, and churches even though the Bible says no one knows the hour of his (Jesus) return, and a refusal to consider that the general reformed church and mainstream denominations just might be right in their general traditional beliefs and that was why they were traditional in the first place, those folk began to look for another gospel other that the ones the traditional churches clung to and as a means of explaining where they had went wrong, (Face saving?) These folk opened themselves up to the deceit of Satan and the Investigative Judgment was born, born of deceit, has no root but deceit. That deception separated them from the rest of the evangelical church, I am convinced that the root of Adventism is the Investigative judgment, the Sabbath keeping and dietary rules are only a symptom, a red infection around the open weeping puss of an 140 year old wound inflicted by ignorance and self deception which led them into the iron grip of spirits that would deceive and continue to deceive millions. The Adventist church is the Investigative Judgment and the Investigative Judgment is the Adventist church. I am fast coming to the conclusion that if one is to really make much headway in freeing folk from this deception through theological rebuttal one must carry the main spearhead aimed at the core, treat the wound and not just the symptoms. As yet I am unclear as to the method one might use to do that. Although many dispute from the Sabbath end of the spectrum and it may be just as necessary it may be wise to explore the battle ground on which we find ourselves deployed. Small skirmishes with an enemy such as this are only that, small skirmishes against a much larger enemy. The old saying ìKnow your enemyî holds true here. The lack of spiritual discernment among many formers and not realizing that spiritual battle is being waged or even failing to realize that these spirits exist hampers greatly and when they have a small skirmish are sent wounded and bleeding again, not defeated only by the grace of God but they do go licking the wounds of their emotions and to some itís not meant to be waged by them but soldiers of Gods choosing. It is no different today than is was of old when God chose the ones that lapped (Judg 7:6 KJV) And the number of them that lapped, putting their hand to their mouth, were three hundred men: but all the rest of the people bowed down upon their knees to drink water. These men dipped their hands into the water and drew their hands to their mouth while keeping an eye on the horizon for enemy not letting down their guard, you cannot see an enemy with your face to the water, and he will wound you for your inattention. Just IMO River | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 806 Registered: 8-2004  |
This is good River! Thank you for the reminders you have given us here. Blessings, Mary | ||
| Freeatlast Registered user Username: Freeatlast Post Number: 510 Registered: 5-2002 |
River, for a non-SDA, never-has-been-SDA, never-will-be-SDA, you hit that one out of the park! I think that the evidence surrounding Ellen's visions of the "shut door" is the best weapon against the IJ. Her Camden vision is the one that ultmately drove me out. But, like everything else, the corporate church has smeared verbal grease all over the doctrine and Ellen White's writings relating to it so that the masses are still deceived through cunning fables designed to cover up the cover-up. They are not deceived directly by the Prophetess, but they are still deceived by proxy through the long-term corporate obfuscation of the evidence. | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 1687 Registered: 10-2004  |
You're absolutely right, River, that the lack of discernment among formers of the spirits behind Adventism, is a major problem. "Knowing your enemy" really is crucial. And if Adventism is Christian, then what are we doing wasting our time on it? Jeremy | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5329 Registered: 12-2003  |
River, you're totally right. And you're totally right that if we don't know our enemy, we get blindsided. And Jeremy, your question is my question: If Adventism is just a heterodx Christian church, why are we wasting time on it? If people are not in deep spiritual bondage, why worry? This kind of effort would not be needed for doctrinal differences. Colleen | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 216 Registered: 7-2005  |
River wrote: "...to some itís not meant to be waged by them, but soldiers of God's choosing." Maybe I'm nuts, but I want God to choose me and use me to fight in this spiritual battle. I believe He has some role for me to play. Otherwise, why would He have led me to become involved in Adventism and then later led me back out? I feel as if I've been in training all these years. Only He will know when I'm ready for battle, and only He knows what part I am to play. But, by His grace, He has put in my heart a strong willingness to see this enemy defeated. I'm reminded of the words, "Not by might, not by power, but by my spirit, says the Lord." The battle is the Lord's, and if He should choose me to play a part, I would be greatly honored. Honestwitness | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 445 Registered: 9-2006 |
Imagine the space program for a moment, there is a window that must be taken into consideration in order to launch a space craft to another planet, we just cannot launch haphazardly, if we do there is about 99.99% chance the planet will not be in there when the space craft arrives and so the space craft misses it intended target. The IJ takeoff point is Daniel 8:14 the best that I can understand the convoluted thing. What I am trying to say is that Daniel 8:14 would be the wrong takeoff point in time anyway. Our takeoff point in time has to be the day of Pentecost or the cross or some where doesnít it? Thinking on those terms we sit at a point in time far removed from Daniel 8:14. What I am trying my best to get at is that my view of the Bible must begin at the cross looking back and also looking forward, the cross seems to be my launching point, Daniel looked forward, in my time I have to look back at Daniel from the cross, the Adventist takeoff point is the old testament and so they try to interpret the Bible from the wrong takeoff point and in doing so cannot see the Bible and so, like the space craft that is launched from a faulty window in time, misses the trajectory altogether. Seems to me they are stuck in the Old Testament time line. The profits all looked forward, isnít that what prophecy is? So in order to get a proper prospective of doctrine I must position myself at the cross and look backward to Genesis and forward to revelations. Is that about right? The reason I cannot start at Genesis is that itís too dim in time to see but if I start at the cross I can look back and see Genesis. The savior has come, died, buried, resurrected and gone back to the father to prepare a place for us and sent us the Holy Spirit we are living in the time of the apostles, discipleship, the profits have lived spoken and died. The gift of prophecy spoken of in Corinthians is not as the prophets of old but is given for the comfort and edification of the church body of Christ in this day and time so it would be impossible for EGW to be a prophet such as those of old or even now for she is dead, only a live body has access to the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Oh sure, many say they donít give her (Ellen) a place of authority but that is just smoke and mirrors of which Adventism seems to never run out of. Me thinks perhaps the minute you kind folks hauled yourself up that old Golgotha hill and got a view from there is the minute you got un-Adventisted, it flipped your noodle and you never will be able to have the old view again, the view from that hill sucks the breath out of you and you begin to praise God from the very core of your being, thatís what you got that they ainít got. That first ìGlory to Godî you bellered out reverberated back through time and up through time. 35 years ago I hauled my broken life up that hill or did he haul it, and I looked back through time and forward through time and all I could see was Jesus no matter which way I looked. All I could get out was ìGlory!!!!!! Did I make any since at all? River Honestwitness, Christians are the only soldiers I know who do most of the fighting on our knees. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3377 Registered: 3-2004  |
River, I agree that contending with adventistism is spiritual warfare. I would not use the words you have used, but I agree, it is spiritual warfare. The IJ is unbiblical and EGW is a false prophet. What I do is just ask God to give me the words to say to adventists when writing or speaking to them. Spiritual warfare is not just over doctrine, it is with relationships also or anything else Satan uses to get between us and God. I know that from personal experience from before I left the SDA church for good. I have to pray a lot and listen to what God tells me in the Bible and then follow through on what I am instructed to do. God will not mislead any of us. I am of the opinion, that God has each of us where He wants us, even those in the adventist church. There are people who have found a relationship with Jesus Christ, while in the SDA church. They study the Bible and begin to question EGW, the IJ, tithing and whatever. As time went on, they continued to follow Him, as it led them out of adventism. Those who truly want a relationship with Christ will have one, because they are following God. I do pray for all my adventist sisters and brothers, that they will have that relationship with Jesus Christ and follow Him where ever He will lead them. Yes, it is spiritual warfare. Jesus Christ won that war at the cross. He wants us to be his witnesses and tell others what he has done for us. That I do. I spread the seed, God produces the results, not me. It is good to know/understand what adventism teaches. I am thankful I was born, raised and educated adventist. That way I know the mind set and the vocabulary they use. I am surprised I just said what I said. That is the first time for me to say that. I also know, from having been adventist, that it is difficult in dealing with them. No one could get through to me on a personal level. God had to take me through all kinds of experiences before I said, OKAY GOD, I will follow you. Then my mind was open to Him and my EGW lens were off my eyes. It was then that I was able to read the Bible and see what it really taught. I see it not as warfare against adventism, but spiritual warfare against Satan. He is a defeated foe. As I said previously, Jesus won that at the cross. He is always awesome. Diana | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3378 Registered: 3-2004 |
River, Again I like how you expressed yourself about going up Golgotha and looking around and only seeing Jesus. Hallejuh and Praise God for that. And Yes, the best way to fight Satan is on our knees praying. Thanks for being here. God did bring you here. He is always awesome. Diana | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 1691 Registered: 10-2004 |
I see that Walk once again twisted my words, on his website. I was clearly agreeing with River that the real enemy with regard to Adventism is the spirits behind Adventism. "For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places." (Ephesians 6:12 NASB.) Jeremy | ||
| Stevendi Registered user Username: Stevendi Post Number: 69 Registered: 10-2006 |
Absolutely River, The Adventist founders have never repented of date-setting I agree. Therefore, the SDA church was founded on disobedience from the very beginning. Time does not erase sins. Only repentance will and Jesus does that. The Seventh Day Adventist denomination has been based on deception and coverup since day one, and like the old saying that covering up a lie with a lie only leads to more lies. I have a pretty good idea what a sinner I am, but the author of lies has done a smacking good job of duping so many inoccent well-meaning souls. I am praying that God will this year prepare me and enable me to minister to as many victims of Adventism as He is willing to trust me with. Thanks to Diana for her prayer postings. I will reread these prayerfully. God help us all to see Him and Him only. Steve | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 446 Registered: 9-2006 |
but the author of lies has done a smacking good job of duping so many inoccent well-meaning souls. ___________________________________________________ Absolutely right Steve, one must look beyond the person or persons in order to see the real war. When we become serious enough to spend time in the prayer of faith, we will begin to see results. (2 Cor 10:2 KJV) But I beseech you, that I may not be bold when I am present with that confidence, wherewith I think to be bold against some, which think of us as if we walked according to the flesh. (2 Cor 10:3 KJV) For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: (2 Cor 10:4 KJV) (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;) River | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 447 Registered: 9-2006 |
How do yawl like my new word "UNADVENTISTED", I got a whole vo-cabulary now. Cognitive Dissonance - Went huntin with my fishin pole. Paradigm shift ñ My noodle screwed on straight. UnAdventisted ñ Screwed his noodle screwed on straight. River  | ||
| Bobj Registered user Username: Bobj Post Number: 93 Registered: 1-2006  |
Jeremy Just a word of thanks for the many fine posts you've shared. You've often given very timely and helpful responses. I am sorry that you are being misrepresented on another website. Please know that you are greatly appreciated, and please don't stop sharing. I recall reading in Phil 1:29 as Paul was contending for the gospel ". . . in no way alarmed by your opponents--which is a sign of destruction for them, but of salvation for you, and that too, from God. For to you it has been granted for Christ's sake, not only to believe in him, but also to suffer for His sake." Be of good courage. Thanks again. Bob | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 1693 Registered: 10-2004 |
Bob, thanks for the words of encouragement--they are much appreciated. Jeremy | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 448 Registered: 9-2006 |
What Bob said Jeremy!! River | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3383 Registered: 3-2004 |
Jeremy and all who post here, I know all of us have gone through much because of our adventist backgrounds. Through it all, God has led each individual. So, pray a lot, study your Bible and what ever is taken from this web site, leave it in God's hands. He is in charge and His will, will be done in all things. I know I am preaching to the choir. But I just had to say it. Let us not to forget to pray for WoW. I have my own thoughts on him, but will not voice them as I cannot get inside his head. Only God can do that. So, I will continue to pray for him as I have been doing since he came to FAF. We do have an awesome God and I thank Him for Jesus. Diana | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3384 Registered: 3-2004 |
River and other "never been adventists", I forgot to add that you have gone through a lot because of your adventist friends/associates/family. I know you love them or you would not have bothered to find out what adventists believe. What I have seen in my life is that the ones you love the most, can hurt you the most. Again, I know I am preaching to the choir. I keep the FAF and all who write here in my prayers. Our God is an awesome God. Diana | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 414 Registered: 6-2006  |
Thanks Diana! Again, this forum has been such a blessing, and I'm convinced that God lead me here. I learn so much from everyone's posts, and love the freedom to come and get honest, knowlegable answers from people who've "been there". I love all my friends here. River, Jeremy (and everyone), keep on telling the truth and spreading that gospel!  | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5334 Registered: 12-2003 |
River, excellent analysis above. You're rightóthe cross is the point from which we must look back as well as forward. You said that so well. Jeremy, we can expect slander and misrepresentation. Remember the beatitude, "Blessed are you, when men shall revile you and persectue you and say all manner of evil against you falsely for my sake? Rejoice, and be exceeding glad, for great is your reward in heaven." (I think I actually used the KJV there...that's the way I originally learned it!) At any rate, as a friend of mine says, if there were no opposition, we'd have to ask ourselves if we were really doing God's will. Thank you for telling the truth. Colleen | ||
| Rejoyce719 Registered user Username: Rejoyce719 Post Number: 12 Registered: 1-2007 |
River and you all, So true! The date-setting against Bible admonition, the shut-door, and the investigative judgment set the stage in the beginning of Adventism for continuing error. If only the people in that group would have accepted that they were mistaken, that God did not "put His hand over the mistake" in their time-setting chart to test people's loyalty as EGW claimed. The truth is that they were simply wrong and if they would have only acknowledged that fact in 1844 many many people would not have been mislead and emotionally hurt then and today. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3386 Registered: 3-2004 |
I have learned in my lifetime that that we cannot do anything about yesterday and tomorrow is not here. All we have is today. We can regret yesterday, but we cannot change it. We have to live with the past, but we do not have to dwell on it So, what can we do today to overcome our adventist background?? What can we let God do to improve our walk with Jesus Christ today?? It brings to mind the verses in Matt 5:33,34 "But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness and all these things will be give to you as well. Therefore do not worry about tomorrow(yesterday), for tomorrow(yesterday) will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." We can regret what the founding people did and just live with it or we can let God change us, which it looks to me that we are doing. I do not know if God will change all the SDA church from the top down. But He is changing individuals. He is bringing individuals to the foot of the cross and thank God it is empty. So is the tomb. He is risen. So what does God want each individual to do. I do know that God has led me to let other people know what adventists beliefs are and I will continue to do that when ever He gives me the opportunity. Then we continue to pray for all SDAs and all on our list for the Prayer Circle. God is working miracles, that we cannot see at this time. We may not see them until we get to heaven. But I know it will be awesome. Diana | ||
| Rejoyce719 Registered user Username: Rejoyce719 Post Number: 13 Registered: 1-2007 |
Yes, Diana. The past is set in stone history. But I can and have moved on to learn who God really is. Reached out to people like you and the others on this site who have also let go of errors of the past. It is so wonderful to discover that what really matters is faith in the grace of Jesus. |
