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Blessed
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Username: Blessed

Post Number: 10
Registered: 1-2007
Posted on Friday, January 26, 2007 - 1:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here is some information on the Beth Moore Simulcast Event. It is being offered throughout North America. You might want to check and see if it is being offered at a church near you.

Beth Moore: Live via Satellite

Straight Talk About Godís Deliverance
Simulcast Event
Saturday, February 24, 2007
Beth Moore wants you to know that if God could lift her out of the pit and set her feet on sturdy ground, then He can get ANYONE out!

And Beth should know. She wasnít just a visitor; this former pit-dweller had to be delivered from acres of life-accumulated dirt. Beth was profoundly wounded with little hope of wholeness.

In this very personal simulcast, Beth will share the healing to be found in Jesus -- lessons of hope for all of us.

Deliverance is for everyone -- no matter how you got stuck, no matter how long youíve been down, whether you think you deserve it or not. And in her straight-talking but loving style, Beth will remind us that deliverance can begin for us this very day.

River
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Username: River

Post Number: 467
Registered: 9-2006


Posted on Wednesday, January 31, 2007 - 4:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I kept trying to remember who she is, now I remember she had a very good teaching on "Out of the pit" I enjoyed the teaching, I think she has a book on it also. She is popular with the ladies.

I also like Joyce Meyer, another woman preacher I enjoy hearing is Darlene Templeton, I believe thats her name.
Of course they never draw many men to their audiences, guess they figure its not macho or whatever but there have been many great women of God, I personally know a couple of them.
River
Honestwitness
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Username: Honestwitness

Post Number: 221
Registered: 7-2005


Posted on Wednesday, January 31, 2007 - 7:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

River, I hate to be a wet blanket about Joyce Meyer, but I listened to her once and got a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach. I couldn't put my finger on just why, but I searched for her on the Internet and found this blog about her...

http://www.rr-bb.com/archive/index.php/t-104588.html

Just thought you might like to have both sides of the story to make your own evaluation of her.

Honestwitness
Honestwitness
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Username: Honestwitness

Post Number: 222
Registered: 7-2005


Posted on Wednesday, January 31, 2007 - 8:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

More wet blankets from me...I suggest you do an Internet search using the following words:

Does [name] teach orthodox Christianity?

See what you find about Beth Moore.

Honestwitness
Raven
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Username: Raven

Post Number: 724
Registered: 7-2004


Posted on Thursday, February 01, 2007 - 7:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here's a link on Beth Moore:
http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/bethmoorethumbsup.htm
It seems that she's getting deceived by "contemplative spirituality" - which unfortunately, many Christians are getting caught up in. This is nothing more than Eastern Mysticism practices that has been given Christian terminology. Very dangerous stuff - it's about like using a ouija board to communicate with Jesus. Of course no Christian would do that and Jesus is not who you would be communicating with. But when you say "contemplative prayer" or "centering prayer" it sounds so upright and harmless. And all Christians want as in-depth of an experience as possible with Jesus.

It just goes to show how very important it is to test everything, no matter who is saying it, with the Bible, God's Word. I, for one, am very concerned with how widespread the acceptance of this stuff is in Christianity. From the research I've done, it's even accepted by Rick Warren and Willow Creek (and some SDA churches). More than ever, Christians who will stand by God's Word are needed among this confusion.

A great book to read on this topic is "A Time of Departing: How a universal spirituality is changing the face of Christianity" by Ray Yungen.
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 5360
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Thursday, February 01, 2007 - 9:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have grave concerns about "contemplative spirituality" too, Raven. From what I have read, it is just a breath away from traditional Eastern meditation. My understanding of prayer from the Biblical models is that it really is supposed to be interactive, with us bringing our thanks, praise, and petitions before the Lord, praying in the Spirit on all occasions for all the saints.

Meditating on one name or aspect of God and repeating that name over and over do not resemble any model of Biblical prayer I can remember.

Now, that being said, I also want to be very cautious in creating doubt about someone, such as Beth Moore (and others who are not named here but are on other website) as being proponents of this type of contempletive exercise. Perhaps she isóand if so, then I would be very cautious when listening to her teach on prayer, etc.

However, as I followed the links from the LighthouseTrailsResearch link above, I discovered that Beth Moore had, apparently, issued a verbal retraction for her endorsement of the DVD in question, although she did not publicly print or publish her retraction. Further, her ministry responded to those who had concerns about her original endorsement and pointed out that none of those who complained about her involvement with the original video had ever seen the video. Further, apparently, they had no first-hand complaints about anything they had personally heard her say about the subject. Her ministry actually offered free copies of the video in question to the complainants so they could actually evaluate the thing for which they criticized her.

I know I have often been chastized, criticized, and even gossiped about because of of things I have supposedly said or endorsed. The complaints have been based on words or snippets removed from context. I have even been accused of endorsing heresy by recommending publications the critics have never personally experienced.

I am not willing to cast doubt on the ministry of someone with a proven, public track record of sound gospel teaching based on the criticisms of people who have not personally witnessed the thing they're criticizing. I know how different reality can look from the perceived concerns.

I am neither endorsing nor warning against Beth Moore; I have never done any of her Bible studies, watched any of her videos, or read any of her books. I have absolutely no first-hand knowledge of her, and I am unqualified to personally recommend her. I only know that widely varied people I trust have benefited from her studiesóbut even that second-hand knowledge does not qualify me to recommend nor warn against her.

Further, great Bible scholars who understand salvation well almost always have at least some point of doctrine or practice that doesn't square with what I see in the Bible. Think how different Luther, Calvin, Wesley, and Moody were. These differences do not mean I can't learn truth from these people.

As Raven said, we have to test everything, no matter who is saying it. The Bible alone can be our source of truth. And we must not assume that someone is endorsing heresy unless we actually know that fact to be true. Critics can make things look very different from how they really are.

Colleen
Raven
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Username: Raven

Post Number: 725
Registered: 7-2004


Posted on Thursday, February 01, 2007 - 9:56 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You're right, Colleen - thanks for pointing out the need to be careful of unjustified criticism. I certainly do agree with that. However, I still see a trend regardless of any specific names, of at least promotion of these ideas among many respected groups. I was wanting to point out that regardless of who it is and how respected they have been in the past, everything still needs to be tested by Scripture. I don't know for a fact if Beth Moore is involved or not, but she certainly could be just as anyone else could be. And if she were involved, that wouldn't make contemplative stuff a good thing to be involved with because she (or anyone else someone looks up to) is doing it.

To me, this falls outside the category of debatable theological differences; those who actually practice these pagan rituals in the name of Christianity, and end up receiving an experience or communication from "God" are receiving directly from the devil, because these practices are occultic. At least that's the way I see it.
River
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Username: River

Post Number: 471
Registered: 9-2006


Posted on Thursday, February 01, 2007 - 2:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I understand where you folks are justifiably gun shy, however I did say that I enjoyed Moores teaching on ìOut of the pitî and so will somebody yank my leg so I can get my foot out of my mouth again
What I meant to say in all that was that I liked some of the things she had to say while she was teaching, the same with Meyers and many other teachers, preachers and so forth.
I did not mean to imply that I thought these particular women were great women of God either, what I said was that there have been great women of God and I knew two personally, women who poured out their lives for the sake of Christ and his gospel. I donít know these women and I donít reject them or endorse them.
I am sure that many things go over my head that would not get past you folks, how ever I am confident enough in my basic grounding of the word not to get led off track by a particular teaching or sermon series or whatever.

Let me put it like this, I mine for nuggets of truth constantly, when I find one I save it for further refining, I let the rocks go on by, they are just rocks.
I donít run every one I hear through a theological sieve accept my Adventist friends and then I put the fine mesh in full gear.
I simply do not have time to put the whole world through a theological sieve, I begin to take in information the moment I wake up, I study, prey, meditate on the Bible, and just think, I wake up around 3:30 in the morning and I start thinking when me feet touch the floor, this goes on until about noon or 1:30 p.m, after that I would be hard put to remember my own name.
You guys didnít throw no wet blanket on, you just tossed a chunk of wood on the fire.
But thank you dear friends for watching my back, listen to Colleen there, try not to be so gun shy you miss the good things.

I had an old horse once who would not cross a wooden bridge, that old horse would walk right up to a bridge and just stop, there was no way he was going to cross a wooden bridge, so I would have to lead him all the way round through the bushes to where he would cross, then heíd go clopping through the water even if he had to swim, no problem.
You folk remind me of that old horse, its amusing but I canít say I blame you either.
Yes I do see the trends and others that start to wander a little to the right and left, yes do test all things, the word of God is the finest sieve in the world.
River
Tisha
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Username: Tisha

Post Number: 221
Registered: 3-2005
Posted on Thursday, February 01, 2007 - 2:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

For more insight into the Christian of "Contemplative Prayer here is a link -

http://www.centeringprayer.com/intimacy/intimacy04b.htm

(Sorry - I don't know how to make the link work here, so I guess you'll have to "copy and paste")

Although I do believe the New Age teachings are heresy, I don't think that necessarily means everythng they have used is wrong. Some of the traditions have a long history, and even come out of long used Christian tradition. Just because "eastern" religions or the New Age type of philosophy uses meditation doesn't make it wrong when used in a Christian's form of worship.

I think only the person meditating (and God) knows whether they are honestly seeking to commune with God. Sometimes, I need to empty my mind of all the wordly clutter and noise before I can truly listen to what God is saying to me. These are the times that I can "be still" and know that He is God (Psalms 46:10).

I want to be careful and listen to God's will for me and to test things by the Bible, but I don't want to be so afraid, because of my SDA upbringing, that I reject things just because they are something different.

Just my two cents worth!!
Blessed
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Username: Blessed

Post Number: 14
Registered: 1-2007
Posted on Thursday, February 01, 2007 - 2:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here is Beth's response to the issue of Contemplative Prayer:

Official Statement from Beth Moore

I just received this statement from Beth Moore at Living Proof Ministries.

My Dear Sisters and Brothers,
Recently I was interviewed for a program on prayer in which I was asked certain questions without any knowledge of what other participants would say or share. Since its release, I've been baffled by some inquiries into whether or not I am a proponent of approaches to prayer with overtones of Eastern meditation. Not only is my answer no, the thought never even occurred to me. I'm a Southern Baptist, for crying out loud! I'm afraid I have to convey the full extent of my ignorance when I tell you with stark honesty that I wasn't even aware of the controversy. I am not involved in any kind of emergent church movement or any kind of mystical prayer movement. Seeing people come to know Christ Jesus through the study of His Word is the only movement I'm part of. I thought I was simply one of a number of people who were being interviewed about approaches to prayer. I also thought that our different approaches would be part of what made the program interesting. In no way did it ever occur to me that each participant would be seen as part of the same movement. I was told that I was asked to participate because I'd written Praying God's Word. I'm not sure you'd find anything further from a mystical, almost out-of-body prayer experience I'm being asked if I support. If I have participated in something unsound, it was hugely accidental and I ask your forgiveness. Nothing could be further from my desire. I have shared platforms with other speakers and teachers a number of times. My frustration is that any of us would be at a loss to take responsibility for every point of doctrine the others hold. I humble myself before you and ask that you would please hold me responsible for my words and answers only and, even then, please keep in mind that editors can use bits and pieces of interviews to convey something the interviewee might not have intended to say. Here's what I intended to say: pray, pray, and pray some more and learn how to listen for God's response.
Rest assured I have been greatly helped by this experience and will be more careful in the future. Thank you not only for your concern but for the accountability. I want very much to be a solid servant of God and His Word. I want to keep growing in Christ. In that process, I am more than willing to receive sound correction.
I am honored to serve you.
In Christ's Name,
Beth Moore

Blessed
River
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Username: River

Post Number: 472
Registered: 9-2006


Posted on Thursday, February 01, 2007 - 4:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I did a little reading on the website referred on and got a quick idea of what you all were talking about by ìContemplative prayerî I had no idea what you were you were talking about.
Looks to me like Beth Moore was equally naÔve, looks to me like she fell into some kind of word trap or something.

Now when I say I spend time in meditation and prayer it means just that, thinking on the word and the things of God, I donít go off into a blank spot and contemplate the fuzz in my naval and start drooling on myself, humming, beating on bongos or scaring the Cat, neither do I contemplate the far reaches of space or the gravy spot on my shirt.
From Bethís letter I doubt if she does either. God gave us a brain to use, I really donít think he needs a blank mind to communicate with us, opening ones self up to any sort of blank hypnosis in my opinion would be dangerous and down right stupid.

River
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 5362
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Thursday, February 01, 2007 - 4:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree, River. Such blankness would dangerous and stupid. Meditating on Scripture and the things of God is completely different.

And thank you, Blessed, for obtaining Beth's statement.

Colleen
Ric_b
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Username: Ric_b

Post Number: 694
Registered: 7-2004


Posted on Wednesday, February 07, 2007 - 6:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think there may be a very good analogy to SDAism in what appears to have happened with Beth Moore in this situation.

A group with teachings and practices that are at best borderline Christian and at worst completely antiChristian, uses language that sounds Christian, quotes a few Scriptures out of context, and uses Christian words (attaching slightly different meanings). Even Christians who are well-versed in the Word can be fooled by their games. Sounds familiar doesn't it?
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 5390
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Wednesday, February 07, 2007 - 6:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good point, Rick.

Colleen

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