| Author | Message | ||
| Tkmommy Registered user Username: Tkmommy Post Number: 31 Registered: 1-2007 |
I was reading an old HS thread questioning the sda belief of the HS. Colleen had said that the sda church teaches the HS unbiblically and one of the points she made was that they teach that the indwelling of the hs would enable one to keep the law. I'm taking it that this is unbiblical? My husband feels he has not had an indwelling of the hs because he battles over having the DESIRE to do what is right and not wrong. Is this sda/egw teaching or truth? What does one do when they believe in Christ but is agonizing that they have the desire to do wrong instead of right? Thanks Tami | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5402 Registered: 12-2003  |
Tami, I completely relate to that struggle. What I've come to learn over the years is that God asks me to surrender. Being born again does not mean I will not be powerfully tempted or even fall into sin. But being born again means that I now have the ability to choose to surrender to Jesus at any given moment instead of fighting temptation at those moments. The problem with most Adventists' understanding is that the HS helps one keep the law instead of that the HS gives one the ability to surrender temptation. As long as we believe certain actions and feelings are sin and we struggle with those actions and feelings, we're focussing on our sin instead of on Jesus. I have had to go before Jesus with the issues in my life and tell Him that I cannot avoid them or overcome them or even understand them. I have had to let go of the struggle and be willing to allow God to do whatever He wishes with it. I have to be willing to let Him completely have me, even if that means removing from me everything I know and love. I have had to face that fact that I have to give up to Him even what seems like God's will. I have had to give up to Him my desire to help and "fix" issues that Richard has faced. I remember one day very clearly when Richard called me before my first class at school. There was a crisis at work involving a person who was not truthful, and I was really worried that Richard might be pulled into a distracting "discussion" that would obscure the real issue. I was quite worried, and then, just before my class started, I realized that I had to give up trying to help Richard "see" what I thought he needed to see and trust that God would deal with him. I still remember telling God that I gave Richard and the situation to Him, asking Him to send into Richard's path the people he needed to see and to give him the mind of Christ and wisdom from Him. I thanked Him for taking care of Richard, and I felt a tangible weight roll off me. I realized that I could trust God to deal with me and to help Richard see what he needed to see. At the end of the day I was able to be relaxed and open with Richard, with no worry or fear, and I learned that God had clearly clarified his situation to him. So, Tami, what I'm saying is that the bottom line struggle is that of being willing to surrender all my outcomes to Him, letting go of my own control. Even issues of temptation I must surrender, being willing to allow God to do in me what I need to have done, even if it means taking from me what I think I most desire. When He is our focus, He changes our hearts. I believe, Tami, that part of your husband's struggle is that God is asking him to realize his own depravity and his unqualified need for Jesus. Jesus is working on your husband to give up his whole identity to Him. Such surrender, of course, will include his attachment to Adventism and its doctrines. But God deals with us all individually, and Adventism may not be the thing God needs your husband to deal with first. But bottom lineóGod is bringing your husband to a place of facing his need to surrender all he is and all he values. I believe God will use these struggles to bring your husband to a new place of trust and knowledge of the truth both about Him and about himself. And God is asking you, Tami, to trust Him both with your heart and with what He is doing in your husband. He is faithful. He wastes nothing, and He redeems everything we submit to Him. Colleen | ||
| Tkmommy Registered user Username: Tkmommy Post Number: 32 Registered: 1-2007 |
Thank You Colleen! Your reply has brought tears! I thank God that He has used you to give me some clarity and peace over the matter. I think I will print it out so I can read it when fear or pain overcomes me. Thanks. | ||
| Stevendi Registered user Username: Stevendi Post Number: 83 Registered: 10-2006 |
Colleen, Your response to Tami reflects exactly my experience. When I admitted my "depravity" and "unqualified need for Jesus", questions started being answered by the Holy Spirit. I was led to surrender all I valued, including my "attachment to Adventism and its doctrines". I thank God with you Tami, that He is working on your husband. It can be rough seeking God's will, but it is always unexpected and exciting! steve | ||
| Peperpat Registered user Username: Peperpat Post Number: 29 Registered: 7-2006 |
Colleen I identify with your response to Tami, but must say I came to those conclusions after much struggle....doesnt always come easy to me! Scripture that has helped me, even in praying for others, is Psalm 53:10-12. 'Create in me a pure heart O God, and renew a steadfast spirit within me. Do not cast me from your presence or take your Holy Spirit from me. Restore to me the joy of your salvation and grant me a willing spirit to sustain me.' | ||
| Seekr777 Registered user Username: Seekr777 Post Number: 654 Registered: 1-2003  |
Thanks to each of your for your comments. As some of you know this past year has not been easy for me. With my marriage to a Jewish lady breaking up and with issues with my adopted daughter I've had to learn that I must rest EVERYTHING in His hands. Not being in control is difficult for me, but when I allow myself to rest in His hands and let the Holy Spirit enter and lead me it is really GREAT.  Dosen't mean life is always easy but it does give a sense of peace when it is out of my hands and in His. I can rest in the assurance of His Spirit being in control. Some of you know about my church situation and I ask for your continued prayers. Our small group is still meeting and slowly growing. HE is Good. In Him, Richard rtruitt@mac.com | ||
| Dane Registered user Username: Dane Post Number: 135 Registered: 4-2004 |
Growing up in the SDA school system of the 60's and 70's I was taught the standard SDA view that the HS helps us keep the law. As a New Cov Christian I agree that He does indeed do this but the question is: which law? SDA believe that it is the TC. However since the OT law, including the TC passed away the HS would not be in the business of helping Christians keep it. The law the HS is concerned about is the royal law of Christ as presented in His teachings. Also, it would appear that one could keep the OT law without the indwelling of the HS. Paul, in Phil. 3:6 claimed that he personally had been blameless under the law. This was prior to His conversion and therefore prior to being indwelt with the HS. But even though he kept the law blamelessly he said it was worthless for salvation. Just some random thoughts. Dane | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5414 Registered: 12-2003 |
Dane, so good to hear from you again! I appreciate your observations about "which law" and Paul's perfect law-keeping. It's funny you would mention that particular passage in Philippians because I was pondering that section of Philippians today. Three verses later, Paul says that he considers everything rubbish so that he may gain Christ "and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith." A couple of things struck me. First, Paul blatantly says that righteousness of his own is related to honoring the law's requirements. That is NOT acceptable righteousness. Second, the fact that acceptable rightousness comes from God on the basis of faith clearly shows that it is ALIEN righteousness. It comes from OUTSIDE us, not from inside. It is in no way related to our becoming good. It is entirely "other" and imputed to us. Third (and this is what really hit be between the eyes), in spite of this totally clear contrast between personal righteousness and Christ's own righteousness being given to us, Ellen and the early Adventists STILL had the audacity to say (along with the Catholics) that we must BECOME perfect, more and more in conformity to the law, in order to be saved. This belief is heresy! And it couldn't be more clear in the Bible. Yes, you're right, Dane...Paul makes it clear that one can keep the letter of the law really well...but that doesn't constitute true obedience. Their hearts were not circumcisedóthey did not know and honor God; they knew and honored the law. That kind of religiosity doesn't count! Peperpat, I agreeómy observations above did not come quickly or easily. God has been working on me in a variety of ways for many years. I am beginning to learn as Richard also said, that my "job" is to surrender and submit to Jesus, being willing to know the truth and to allow Him to apply it to my life even if it means the loss of things I love. But He Himself is always our reward, and, as Paul said, "I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord..." (Phil 3:8). Colleen |
