Post Number: 255
|Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 12:25 am: || |
Hi; graces and blessings to you all~
Haven't posted much for months, but I feel that you all can pray against the SDA, oppressive 'spirit', and help my daughter, if she posts here, like I told her she could, for help. She cried out to me, tonight, again...
'Sabbath' oppression from my dad...yet, again, to my daughter. But, she is not equipped, like I am, to refute or ignore or escape his nonsense.
The appliances cannot even 'work' on Sabbath, either, to do laundry...~sigh~
He gave her a 'Biblical' lecture about how the Jews didn't even carry a handkerchief on the Sabbth. I told her to ask him, next time, why did he did not keep the Sabbath like the Jews in the OT or even like Jesus?
A long story, but she lives with and helps my SDA, elderly parents about 3-4 days a week, living there for those days (My non-SDA sister pays her for this--Home Health Aide). They truly need someone and no agency will do it. (We checked it out). Out of love for her grandma, my daughter, Amy, does this.
Since I and my girls became more involved and absolutely committed into a completely Christ & Gospel/Scripture-centered church, for the past year, recently, my dad and my other SDA sister have attacked my daughter and I, visciously (I told my girls, this is, at least, proof, that we are Christ's)... with even malice, concerning dad and my sister (remember my posts about that aunt?) both.
Worse, my dad's pastor grew up in our new church's faith, in Europe, and is, now, telling my dad how awful we and our faith are, and how good Adventists are. This SDA pastor cornored my daughter, when he visited my parents, and told her some horrible things about her new faith.
She told my parent's pastor that she did not appreciate what he said about herself and her faith. I told her that he just and only revealed how insecure he was about himself and his own shakey SDA faith.
Anyway, this may not make much sense (It is late), but I hope my daughter posts here for help and support for SDA spiritual oppression.
River, all that you have posted about the SDA 'spirit', I agree 100% with.
It is oppressive, blinding, awful, damaging, generational, a cult binding in an enwrapping fear base, and worse, and more than I can put into words about the on-going harm it does...
for a lifetime and unto generations....weep.
I just hate this that my daughter is facing what I grew up with because the love and giving within her heart desired to help her grandparents in their elderly need!
Christ spare my girl and make me what I should be!
Help us. Pray for us. My girl...
Lord Jesus Christ have mercy, even upon our enemies; Forgive me my own resentments. Right now, I hate Adventism for how they hurt others.
Show me how you love your nieghbor (let alone family)...
...then tell me how you love your God...
Post Number: 522
|Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 6:09 am: || |
I for one, hear you Cathy, I really do. We on the forum need to reach out in faith to the Lord for you and your daughter this morning, to let those who are strong in faith allow that faith in Jesus to encompass and surround both you and your daughter.
James 5:17 Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months.
James 5:18 And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth her fruit.
I have went to prayer for Gods Holy Spirit to cover her, to surround her, and to keep her continually that she may finish her mission of taking care of her elderly and helpless grand parents, that she may go about her work rejoicing with the complete and overwhelming protection of the Holy Spirit.
I also pray that the Holy Spirit also surround you Cathy and give you wisdom and peace from the heavenly father.
I give praises for it to the Lord for from all blessing and protections flow.
May the peace promised by the Lord Jesus flow into you and through you this morning.
Let those who are strong in their faith reach out to the Lord this morning on the behalf of you and your daughter in earnest prayer this morning.
Let these prayers of love touch your heart and encourage you and lift you up this morning.
Post Number: 152
|Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 6:25 am: || |
Lord, I lift Cathy and her daughter up to you. They are in a fierce spiritual battle, but you are all powerful. Arm them with your armor and be their strength.
10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might.
11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of *the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.
13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14 Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness,
15 and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16 above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one.
17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God;
18 praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints--
19 and for me, that utterance may be given to me, that I may open my mouth boldly to make known the mystery of the gospel,
20 for which I am an ambassador in chains; that in it I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.
The Lord is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer; my God is my rock in whom I take refuge. He is my shield and the horn of my slavation, my stronghold. Ps. 18:2
Post Number: 832
|Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 6:58 am: || |
Amen to both River's post and Leigh's. My heart aches for your daughter . . . and also for your parents and other SDA relatives. It is my prater that your daughter will be covered and filled with the Holy Spirit as she goes about her work. And that your God will break through the feeble crust of resistance that your family is putting up to Him. For it is not really you and her that they have a quarrel with, but Him.
Post Number: 86
|Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 7:13 am: || |
My advice would be short and simple. Tell your Dad to cut the religious crap or you will cut social ties between him and your family. Spiritual abuse is just as damaging as other forms and is never inspired by the Holy Spirit.
Get her out of there until he agrees to behave in a Christian manner. Tell him to focus on the weightier matters of the law: justice, mercy and faith - Matt 23:23. There's only one Jesus for your family - accept no substitutes.
Now, on a kinder note, you can fight this with the weapons that God gives us - his Word, faith, and most of all PRAYER. Pray that God will work on your Father's heart and to open his mind to the True Gospel Jesus. I pray with you.
Post Number: 253
|Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 9:48 am: || |
Something that has been very healing for me since God rescued us from Adventism has been the way in which God has also given me better boundaries with my family. This grandfather is out of line even if he wasn't talking about Adventism, because he is being disrespectful. A person like this grandfather needs BIG FAT BOUNDARIES. This is a wonderful opportunity for Amy (is that her name?) to learn to have boundaries with out of control people. God can make her BOLD AND STRONG IN HIM. She might way, when he starts in... Grandpa, we have never gotten anywhere discussing our differences of opinion about the Lord, therefore I will not engage in a discussion with you about this at all. If you have a concrete question about my doctrine, I can give you texts, etc..., but I will not argue. If he starts to argue anyway, tell him that he needs to leave the room or you will leave the house and the job. Remember GOD ULTIMATELY IS HER PROVIDER, AND THE GRANDPARENTS PROVIDER.
Post Number: 521
|Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 12:12 pm: || |
Cathy, praying for you and your family.
Post Number: 27
|Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 6:31 pm: || |
I am near to the place where your grandparents are. Have begun to feel old age sliding in the door. a few years ago I might have been as "zealous for the Lord" as your grandfather is! I hope not, but I would have tried to get her to read "truth-filled literature" and left books around for her to read with a little urging. I did that for my husband for years -- and it did little good. It had to be God's LOVE that bro't us BOTH to Jesus' feet and bro't us both out of bondage into the SWEETNESS of His divine GRACE!!
I agree with Lisa that boundaries must be set. The sweetness of the granddaughter's humble service and her kind yet firm steadiness will show the difference in the SDA harshness and the calm loving thoughtfulness of Jesus' love and example. God bless you, Cathy, and your daughter who is going through her "persecution" time. We are praying for all of your family!!
Post Number: 160
|Posted on Sunday, February 18, 2007 - 6:03 am: || |
My heart goes out to you and your daughter in this situation. I am so appreciative of Lisa's words about boundaries. It takes a really mature person (regardless of age) to be able to set loving and appropriate boundaries. I've seen so many, many families over the years where the dysfunction is profound, partly because good and caring people were either unwilling or unable to set appropriate boundaries.
Could I suggest you and your daughter talk this through. She needs to understand the abuse she is going through right now and possible ways to remedy the situation. Of course, on top of all this is the spiritual warfare going on. But that in no way should stop her from setting appropriate expectations for the relationship. If she is in any way fearful or reluctant, then I might suggest you prayerfully consider whether or not this is the best situation for her.
Post Number: 736
|Posted on Sunday, February 18, 2007 - 6:17 am: || |
All excellent advice here, that I don't know what to add, Cathy - except to say that I have been praying for you, your daughter and this painful situation.
Post Number: 123
|Posted on Sunday, February 18, 2007 - 6:24 am: || |
Praying for your situation. It sounds like several of these family members are prime candidates for hearing the gospel.
Post Number: 3421
|Posted on Sunday, February 18, 2007 - 3:50 pm: || |
Cathy,I prayed for you and your daughter after I read everything above. I agree with everything every one has written. Praying for your daughter. Our awesome God will take care of her and the situation.
Post Number: 256
|Posted on Sunday, February 18, 2007 - 5:09 pm: || |
Thank you everyone!
I will write more later.
My daughter is here with me, tonight (for the week), and my dad has kept his mouth shut all weekend (Kind of like God keeping the 'lion's' mouths shut for Daniel in my view) and things are more peaceful for her. The aunt, et all, did not come to grandma's house to visit, after all, so no more oppression and reviling from that quarter, either.
I keep reminding myself that we do not struggle against flesh and blood. I pray for their healing and knowing Jesus Christ (Speaking of Him does no good; it only triggers SDA-speak in them, I have learned in the past 15 years).
I am going to have Amy read all of your posts. She needs former SDA support, although she was never raised an SDA. She was raised in Christ.
Post Number: 5422
|Posted on Sunday, February 18, 2007 - 9:28 pm: || |
Cathy, I am praying as I read this for you and your daughter. I totally agree with the boundary-setting advice. Your daughter does need to be able to ask her grandfather not to speak to her that way, and if she can't get him to stop, she needs someone to help her and protect her. She shouldn't have to endure that sort of spiritual abuse, and it is not disrespectful for you to draw a boudary line between your dad and your daughter.
Post Number: 697
|Posted on Monday, February 19, 2007 - 6:26 pm: || |
God bless you Cathy and Amy. I'm praying for you from over here in Japan. You're not alone. You have many brothers & sisters here and all over the world who are going through the same thing. Jesus said that if they persecuted Him, they would most certainly persecute those who followed Him. I'm praying for your peace in Him and wisdom in setting boundaries.
Post Number: 40
|Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2007 - 5:00 am: || |
i completely agree with stevendi's advice. set some ground rules with the grandfather or pull her out of the situation. she shouldn't have to suffer that kind of verbal/psychological abuse.
Post Number: 257
|Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2007 - 5:55 am: || |
I sure appreciate everthing you all posted--every one. Especially the prayers and scriptures. River, your scriptures reminded me of the awesome power of prayer. Thank you all for taking the time to pray and post.
I agree, boundaries are so important! They have been set with my SDA family for years (ever since I learned about them in my 20's. I did not grow up knowing about them). Recently, I confronted my SDA sister, too. A boundary has been set with my parent's SDA pastor.
On one hand, I think my daughter should not have done a load of laundry on their Sabbath (I have always told my kids to respect other's religions in other's homes); she usually does not. But my dad--after his pastor had told Amy to talk and listen to her grandpa about Adventist things--got into the SDA-speak about it all. The pastor's rudeness was the instigating force, triggering my elderly dad's mental problems, which Adventism makes worse.
Steve, what you wrote, is always my initial reaction and I am known to do that kind of thing, but I have to sit back and think about it and pray more these days. My parent's situation is a difficult one and we are the only family near by. Believe me, I would cut and run (and I have in the past), but morally and emotionally, some things are not that easy, when parents are elderly. For a couple of months, I have dearly been desiring to move farther away from the SDA's (my SDA sister is in Colorado, too), but my mother's dire needs--and father's too, even though he is a stinker at times!-- makes me stay.
My parents are truly in need. My mother set the stove on fire 2 weeks ago. My dad demanded something to eat, she began to fry something, walked away and forgot that she was cooking. that is jsut one, small example. They must have someone there for several needs.
My daughter is not at an age, where I can order her to live with me, but she knows she has a choice. She chose to help them and--so far--refuses to abandon her grandma. I cannot do it becasue I have a younger child here and there is no room for us there. (There is no agency, who will help them because they can still dress themselves, but they can't do anything else--go figure.) So, until Amy decides to live with me... She has been paid by one of my non-SDA sisters to do this for 6 months, so it is up to Amy. But I told her last week, that she needs support in various ways, including to deal with their Adventism, if it is opressing her. It all was not so bad, until my SDA sister and this SDA paster triggered my dad. Dad was pretty nice to Amy before that.
Amy gets therapy since her dad left the kids, 2 years ago, hurting them so much, and her therapist is helping her to understand boundaries, as well as me teaching her about them all her life. She told her, last week, to spend more time with me at my home. I have insisted that she spend 2-3 days with me and her little sister, anyway. So she does, when she can. (I asked her if there were some way to unplug their stove, when Amy is gone!) Amy is with us for--I hope--a week, this time. (We will still see my mom)
As far as asking my dad to not speak about Adventism--it could make him into a raging monster. We are not dealing with a normal personality here. If he were not an Adventist, he would still have problems, but Adventism makes him worse in them. And he has become the most traditional and conspirasy-paranoid oriented of Adventism, as he has aged. Thankfully, my mother has not. She has relaxed many 'standards'. (She plays poker with Amy)
I have thought a lot about this in the past few days. My dad just came home from the hospital about 3 weeks ago. I think he is asserting his 'authority' (in other ways too, not related here), fighting his feelings of aging weakness and helplessness, and this was one manifestation of it. Prayerfully and hopefully, it will die down and he will accept that he can no longer do what he used to do and stop oppressing mom and Amy, trying to control them.
I don't know if Amy will ever post here, but she is going to lurk and read. I know it will help her to read that others go through what she has, if she comes across it.
The reason I have not been on the forum for months is that I have to not have Adventism within my constant consciousness, daily, in order to help and deal with my aging parents. I know I would get overwhelmed or get into attitudes, which would not help me nor them.
Thank you all and bless you much!
Post Number: 88
|Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2007 - 6:30 am: || |
What spiritual maturity the Lord has blessed you with. I too, am going through similar issues with mother and father in law - Alzheimers and failing kidneys and heart. Fortunately, they have never been very "good" Adventists, sort of just along for the ride, but do have faith in God's grace and justice.
Adventism can make people crazy, even insane. The kind of venom that Bachelor et.al. peddles leads some with intense needs for security to begin to judge all things and people (even loved ones) by their religious idolatry, without even realizing it. Everything and everybody becomes black/white, good/bad, saved/lost according to the sick, abusive Adventist dogma.
I aplogize for my harsh, immediate response - I really knew better, that there were insights in your first post that this was more than just religion. I continue to pray for your family that God's love will reign supreme. It's obvious that you understand this. God bless you for your caring spirit with your parents. You are honoring not only them, but Him.
As for their pastor, well.... shut up Steve. I wonder if I know your sister? Maybe after my ranting, you'd rather not find out!
Because of Him,
Post Number: 258
|Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2007 - 7:20 am: || |
Oh, Steve, I struggle! And I can rant, trust me! A part of me is a lioness--especially over my kids-- and shouldn't be, most of the time. Don't worry about your post. In many cases, it is appropriate. I may have to do it with one, younger family member, someday.
There was a time--when she was not so forgetful with mini strokes--when my mother just about worshipped Bachiocchi and I had to run from the room, tearing my hair out. She had not read any of his other silly books, but the Sabbath ones, but she thought he was the scholar to end all scholars. That is just one example of my frustrations and I still must shut my mouth, bite my tongue, and let things go to God. So, now, my children learn the same things. When to speak and when to shut up and let it go. Grandma won't recall it in 5 minutes, anyway.
If I share anything about God, I keep it about myself and my children; what blessings we have been given and grown in Christ. Thankfully, my mother has accepted our continuing path into Jesus for the past 12 years or so. My father...when we became Lutherans, 8 years ago, he told my kids that we were worhipping the sun on Sunday. Now, that we are entering another liturgical/sacramental church, it is worse. Too "Catholic", although we are not Catholics (One of my sisters is, though, and she is beyond the Pale to him!)
At any rate, if I receive a letter from him, this time, I think I will return it, unread."Return to sender". I am tired of the "going to hell" letters--all in "love" for my soul, of course. There's one boundary about his behavior.
The last letter said that my children and I rejected the SOP (Ellen), so we would go to hell. Not a word about Christ, even rejecting the SDA Jesus. I feel so sickened and sad that my dad has never known about the true Jesus, cross and resurrection. Yet, his fruits bear that out in ugliness, at times. Still, I must remember that I am not struggling against flesh and blood, to forsake wrath (Psalms 37), and still pray for him and that he will be delivered from Evil, too (not just me and my kids).
Whom are our 'enemies'? Anyone who hurts us, especially because of Christ. It is no coincidence that all this happened (including the incidences with the SDA pastor and SDA sister) after my dad and I had had a good talk about spiritual-Christ things, while he was in the hospital. After the SDA's got to him, all that good was trashed in my human viewpoint, including good things for our relationship. I do believe that evil spirits did not want my dad to retain anything good of Christ we talked about and that they workled to oppress us. I do not know what the Lord will do and can do in time, but I trust him. A young woman in our church, who is befriending her, told Amy that she has had her first persecution, after that SDA pastor blasted her so badly and so rudely about her faith.
After Amy reads here, she will know, even more, that she is not alone.
The battle, power, honor and might is the Lord's.
Standing and praying (and, sometimes, gritting my teeth),
Post Number: 91
|Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2007 - 7:43 am: || |
Cathy and Amy,
I know you probably already do this, but just a reminder to write down special personal promises that the Holy Spirit has given you and carry them everywhere you go. Pray over them, ponder them, remember answers given in the past, use them when other words fail. Jesus never fails, because He is the Victor already - hold on, hold on, hold on because He loves you.
Holy Spirit, hold Cathy and Amy close to You. I believe You will never let any darkness come between You and them. Remind them to just look up to You and see Your outrageous light and love when there's no other way to go. You will bless them for their spirit of caring for and honoring their family. Amen