| Author | Message | ||
| Jonah Registered user Username: Jonah Post Number: 7 Registered: 3-2006 |
What's up family? I just got home from the first session of this year's FAF Weekend and I just feel like sharing my praise to God with you guys. This is my 2nd year attending.It really feels I am at a family reunion. I wish those of you who aren't here could be here so that we all could fellowship. I am pretty tired so forgive me if this reads sloppy. I just want to give God glory, honor, praise and thanksgiving for this ministry (FAF and LAM) and all of you who post/lurk and really minister on this message board. I love how God moves. I love how He allows me to see Him move in the lives of others. I just love how He has placed us in each others life so we may minister to one another. God is just incredible. I am overwhelmed with His display. Good night and God bless. Jonah | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 523 Registered: 9-2006  |
Jonah, I do so wish I could have been there to fellowship with you and to meet personally you and all the rest. I am praying and have been praying for the FAF weekend to be fruitful in bringing souls to the knowledge of the Jesus that Paul preached. I just want to thank all who have ministered to me on this forum and to thank God for the forum. It brings close, those who otherwise would not be able to fellowship together or even know about each other for that matter. Again I thank God for the FAF and LAM outreach to those that are bruised hurting. Please pray for me and also my Adventist friends with whom I have to do, when you meet at the FAF weekend today. River | ||
| Lisa_boyldavis Registered user Username: Lisa_boyldavis Post Number: 252 Registered: 3-2005 |
I have been thinking of you all this weekend and praying for you that God will be present at your gathering. It would be wonderful to be there sometime. I have a dear friend who has been able to attend it now two years in a row. Lisa | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 463 Registered: 6-2006  |
Hi Jonah! Oh how I wish I could be there with you. (Even though we've never met!) I'm so glad you were so blessed. I can't wait to hear, read, and see all about it. May the gospel of our precious Lord and Savior Jesus Christ lift veils and free the people! Thanks for the report ~  Leigh Anne | ||
| Freeatlast Registered user Username: Freeatlast Post Number: 516 Registered: 5-2002 |
The Lord has surely blessed this FAF weekend. Thank you for your prayers everyone! This is my 2nd year and it has been a tremendous blessing to meet old friends and make new ones. There are several people there who have decided to leave only within the past few months. Pray for them. Pray for us all. Dale Ratzlaff's message tonight was truly anointed. It's must see TV when it posts on this site later on. God has appointed him for this purpose in this place and in this time. I pray that there were many ears to hear besides just the former Adventists. If you ever have the chance to come to this event, by all means do so. You will be blessed as never before. Thank you for your prayers everyone! They are being answered as you speak them. | ||
| Aliza Registered user Username: Aliza Post Number: 159 Registered: 8-2006 |
Like many others, I've certainly been praying for this weekend. Now as the day people may be returning home, I'm praying that those seeking will have found Jesus in a new and profound way, the real Jesus. Also, I'm praying that those who have been stuffing down all the cognitive dissonance over the years will no longer be able to do so. They will have the courage to believe outside the box and search the Bible alone until they know all that God has for them. I'm so looking forward to more reports about blessings and breakthroughs! Aliza | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3419 Registered: 3-2004  |
I made it to CA in one piece and am staying with my sister in Riverside. Friday night was awesome, well the whole weekend was awesome. Gary Inrig, pastor of the Trinity church said something this morning that I hope I never forget. It was to give good news, you have to be good news. My pastor said something similar to that a year ago. I met and re met so many people that I have only known by their alias. Now I have a face to put on them. So much was said and I am not at my computer right now. So I will write more when I get my computer back next week. Pray for me as I drive home tomorrow morning. It is a 4 hour drive. Really not bad. Pastor and Mrs Inrig are such lovely people and I do appreciate them working with the Tinkers for the former adventists. Hope next year more of you can make it. Our God is always so AWESOME. Diana | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5421 Registered: 12-2003  |
I can't begin to thank you all enough for praying for the weekend. I'm sorry I didn't post soonerólast night we got home very late, and I was too tired to be coherentóbut the weekend was wonderful and exceeded my expectations. The presence of Jesus was palpable, and God glorified Himself in deep and profound ways. Mark Martin's sermon on Friday night, "Does God Have Anything To Prove?", set the tone for the whole weekend. He developed the thesis that God knows everythingópast, present, and future. He knew each of us before we were born, and He knows everything in our hearts and thoughts. This all-knowing, soveriegn God never needs to learn (Job tells us no one can teach God) or investigate anything in order to know a thing. Without directly making the statement, Mark showed that an investigative judgment is never needed nor does it make sense. We serve a completely all-knowing God, and He has known us from eternity for all eternity. Saturday morning Greg Taylor spoke on the "Secrets of a Spirit-Filled Life". In a profound and moving sermon, Greg showed that when we are in Christ and sealed by the Holy Spirit, we now have the ability to choose (as we did not before being born again) to live according to the temptations of our flesh or by the promptings of the Holy Spirit. He used the Beatitudes as his text, and he discussed what each beatitude says about a holy life. Saturday night Dale Ratzlaff used the last section of Acts 10 as his textóthe passage of Peter's amazing revelation of the sheet of unclean animals and of his subsequent trip to Cornelius's house where, when the gospel was preached, the Holy Spirit was poured out on Cornelius's household. Dale showed that God asked Peter to view his understanding of God's will from a new paradigmóand in spite of God's telling Peter three times to "kill and eat", and Peter's refusal three times, God still declared that unclean foods and Gentile people were now declared clean. Peter was expected not only to preach to a "gentile dog", but he was to enter his house and eat his food with himóand the Holy Spirit was poured out on Cornelius when he believed. He did not have to alter his diet before being born again. Dale ended with Ephesians 2:14-16 where Paul says Jesus destroyed the dividing wall of hostility which was contained in the law of commandments and observances, and in Himself made one new man out of the twoóJew and Gentile. He then read Ellen's statement in Early Writings (I can't remember the pg #óit might have been 37), where Ellen distinctly said she was shown that the Sabbath would be the dividing wall between the "true Israel of God" and those who did not believe. He did not explain the contrast but told people to allow the Holy Spirit to convict them. I'll tell you more laterówe have to leave now to take one of our FAF Forum family to the airport. God so was present this weekend. I just thank Him for what He did and is doing. I thank Him for all those who prayed, both on campus and far away, and I thank Him for being faithful. Colleen | ||
| Jackob Registered user Username: Jackob Post Number: 432 Registered: 7-2005 |
Thanks Colleen for the report, we are all thankful to God, He answered our prayers. Praise Him! | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5423 Registered: 12-2003 |
OKówe're back. Rick Langer, an assistant professor at Talbot Seminary at Biola University, conducted a class on Christian History in the Christianity EDU track. His visual handout using a tree diagram to describe the church's history was insightful. He showed how the trunk and roots of Christianity were established by the apostles. The trunk branched into two different sections early on with the division between the Roman Catholic church and the Eastern Orthodox church. These two branches remain today. The Catholic branch has divided again, with a new branch growing out of if called "Protestantism". Protestants, Catholics, and the Orthodox all trace their lineage back to the original apostolic roots. Rick pointed out that he would argue that the Catholics, for example, have some aberrant beliefs that he believes alter their perception of the original orthodox doctrines, but these branches do all claim the same source. Around the base of the tree, he pictured three old, ongoing heresies: gnosticism, arianism, and ebionism. These heresies grow close to the oirginal trunk, and they have sent up shoots over and over. He said that the trees growing out of the heresies and the original tree often touch, i.e. the branches of an arian or ebionite or gnositc tree may flourish and become, at the high levels of the trees, intertwined and indistinguishable from each other at that level. He pointed out that one must trace those branches backwards to discover which trunk they emerge from. That tracing backward determines which of those branches has the hope of being authentic Christianity. Overtly they may look similar; upon examination, they have completely different essence. Gosticism is a heresy of belief growing out of a denial of Jesus' humanity. Arianism is a heresy growing out of a denial of Jesus' divinity. Ebionism is a heresy of adhering to the law in many ways, and, Rick said, this misuse of the law also effects its adherents' view of Jesus' divinity as well. This "tree" metaphor was really helpful to me and illustrated how Adventism originated out of the Arian and perhaps also the Ebionite heresies, and even though Adventism has been publicly "cleaned up", its branches, which intertwine with evangelical Christianity, still trace backward to its heretical roots which determine the true essence of its current teachings. Its branches do not trace backward to the original trunk and root. Gary Inrig had a very helpful class on choosing a healthy church. He said there are three non-negotiables when looking for a church: the teaching of the Trinity, a high view of Scripture and its inerreancy, and the centrality of the cross in salvation. Under these non-negotiables there are many less central doctrinal issues which we may personally feel strongly enough about that we want a church which teaches what we understand. He said, however, that we absolutely can have Christian fellowship with people who don't see this doctrinal second tier the same as we do. We can't, however, have true Christian fellowship with people who don't agree on that top level of three non-negotiables. He did address the issue of introducing practices such as contemplative prayer, etc. He pointed out that such practices are not in themselves unbiblical, and these should probably not be used as the main measure of whether or not a church is true to Christianity. If we begin with that top tier of three points, we can work down the list and decide what we can agree with and what we can't. Etc. Jon Rittenhouse gave a fascinating lecture on the reliability of Scripture. He covered a lot of facts and history, and he pointed out that there are 24,970 original New Testament manuscripts in existanceóWAY more than for any other ancient text. They were all written between 45-95 AD, and most of the copies were written within 150 years of each other, and all were written within 225 years. Plato, in contrast, wrote/spoke in 400 BC. The earliest copy of Plato dates 900 ADó1,300 years after Plato. There are only 7 "original" copies of Plato in existenceóand no one questions the validity of Plato. Further, Aristotle "wrote"/spoke in 384-322 BC. The earliest copy of his work dates 1100 ADó1,400 years after the man. There are only 49 original copies of Aristotle in existence. There are FAR more manuscripts of the NT in existenceóand they were all written within 225 years max from the original writings. Etc. These three as well as Mark's, Greg's, and Dale's talks will be online soon. There was great fellowship, great breakout sessions, and lost of story-sharing and worship. Elizabeth Inrig again provided wonderful food and atmosphere, and the peace of God really marked the entire time. Sharon Strum led worship assisted by her husband Scott on guitar, Sarah Schumacher on bass, Jamie Rabenstein on percussion, and Roy Tinker on keyboard. Worship was awesome. We're already thinking about next year's FAF weekend! Colleen | ||
| Jeremiah Registered user Username: Jeremiah Post Number: 199 Registered: 1-2004  |
It's an interesting thought about the roots of Adventism... Theologically Adventism does appear to descend from Arianism and Ebionism but if you were to trace it by succession of leaders it is actually a branch out of Protestantism which is a branch from Catholicism which has Apostolic origins, if you follow the branch theory. 'Course if you ask the Eastern Orthodox, Catholicism split away from the Apostolic church. I found a really interesting book about what Christians actually believed way back when in the first 300 years or so. It's "The Use of Sacrificial Ideas in Greek Christian Writers from the New Testament to John Chrysostom". It is written by Frances M Young who is Edward Cadbury Professor of Theology at the University of Birmingham, England. This book is definitely not light reading, but very informative. It could be useful for people who are curious how similar their "branch" of Christianity is to the Apostolic "roots" and "trunk". I'm not saying everything in the book is correct but it sure does give a perspective on things. The 3 non-negotiables seem to be slightly different than they would have been in the first years of Christianity, to me. I sense a strong Protestant flavor in the one about the high view of Scripture. The Trinity has it's support in the assumption that the Church in the first 300 years was actually guided by the Holy Spirit and that Arius was not. Jehovah's Witnesses might take issue with that one... and the centrality of the cross... while the cross is very important, this has a western, latin flavor to it... the cross without the resurrection would do us no good! Interesting meetings... thanks for the report Colleen! Jeremiah | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 526 Registered: 9-2006 |
I would probably have to agree with Rick Langer on the very roots of Adventism and if there is any way to hear his complete talk he gave I do look forward to hearing him on the subject. I would probably have to disagree with Jeremiah on the Adventist heresies growing out of the protestant church, I would tend to think that Adventism would probably have sprung from one of the ìWildî vines growing up around the roots of the original root which catholic and Eastern Orthodox sprang from, gnosticism, arianism, and ebionism. These heresies grow close to the original trunk but were heresies I donít believe were ever part of the original apostolic roots of the church, heresies had already began to spring up in Paulís day. I like to visualize these roots as wild roots, never having roots or place in the apostolic roots, these were choking wild vines that have their root in the flesh and not the cross. The Adventist root probably did spring from one of these wild choking vines of gnosticism, arianism, and ebionism. However, I believe it does not do much good to trace Adventism back further that the early 1840ís for that is where an entirely new nematode sort of wild choking vine sprang up in the Investigative Judgment, an amazing ugly twisted, choking vine beyond description, sending out its tentacles to encircle and perhaps penetrate the branch that grew out of the reformation if it possible could and if not then mimic the protestant tree and disguise its grotesque nature. In a way I would have to agree with Jeremiah that it does appear to look as if it grew out of the protestant tree but I tend to think not. Anyway, if one does use this visualization method to describe Adventism, the early 1840ís I believe is sufficient. When I used the tree and root method to visualize Adventism and came to the Investigative judgment thing it was so overwhelmingly ugly and diabolical I had to stop there and turn my head away. It was so sickening I had to quit tracing; honestly, I wanted to run outside and barf up my guts. Maybe in the future we will have opportunity to explore the early heresies to see if Adventism hold any resemblance to one or all of them. River | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 527 Registered: 9-2006 |
There are actually four ìNon-negotiablesî not three. Here they are. The four pillars of faith So again my quote: ìNow I would like to submit some bare essentials that I think one would have to believe in order to call himself Christian. I have attempted to break down the essentials in its simplest form. 1. Believe that Christ died and rose the third day. 1 Cor 15:1 and Romans 10: 9,10 2. Sola feida (think I spelled that right) faith alone. 3. Christ deity. 4. Absolute and complete atonement for our sins at the cross. Now what I say is all just IMO but if anyone would disagree with this statement I would be curious to see why and how you would go about refuting it. Guess I am getting in the mood to bat the old theological ball back and forth. Although if it got long it might be best to move it over to the theological section, however it does have to do with discussion on Adventism in a big, biig, biiiig wayÖ. River | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 698 Registered: 10-2002  |
Colleen, thanks for sharing all of that. You know, about those "three heresies"... I think it is helpful to understand them as deceiving spirits, or the teachings of deceiving spirits. That is why they keep "resurfacing" even in groups that cannot directly trace their lineage to an earlier heretical group. The three heresies represent three spiritual deceptions that the enemy has been attacking Christians with ever since the beginning. They represent three deceptions of thought & heart that the enemy tries to woo us toward & away from Christ. | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 699 Registered: 10-2002 |
Oh, and I'm very appreciative of the Plato/Aristotle information! That is AWESOME. And it's interesting because we rarely doubt the existence of Socrates, but we only know of Socrates (and his noble death) because of Plato's writings. We don't have much other evidence that he even existed. And nobody doubts that Plato himself existed, even though Plato's earliest copy is dated 900 A.D. Incredible. I hope we can make it to an FAF weekend someday. I guess you all wouldn't be able to come have it in Japan, eh? | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 528 Registered: 9-2006 |
Correction: the original root which catholic and Eastern Orthodox sprang from, gnosticism, arianism, and ebionism. I miss worded this sentence, I meant to say gnosticism, arianism, and ebionism grew up beside the apostolic root and not from catholic and Eastern Orthodox. Sorry. River | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 529 Registered: 9-2006 |
Ramone, What does Buddha think about holding FAF weekend over there, ya might go down and rub his tummy and maybe he will tell you. Yuk Yuk. River | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 530 Registered: 9-2006 |
Ramone, What does Buddha think about holding FAF weekend over there, ya might go down and rub his tummy and maybe he will tell you. Yuk Yuk. River | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 837 Registered: 8-2004  |
A gathering in Japan? I probably won't make it there in this lifetime, or at least not any year soon, but I think a get-together there is a great idea! (and one over in the eastern US too!) Mary | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 700 Registered: 10-2002 |
Haha, well, Amaterasu (the Shinto sun-goddess) might be a little upset by a FAF gathering. But on the other hand, my wife and I are the only "formers" I personally know of. Buddha ate too much raw blowfish and ended up swallowing one's poisonous liver, so regretfully he passed away some millenia ago. However, he's been "immortalized" in stone & wood, although he's still having trouble talking, speaking, hearing & seeing. |
