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River
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Username: River

Post Number: 546
Registered: 9-2006


Posted on Thursday, March 01, 2007 - 6:56 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I enjoyed reading the letters in proclamation; I especially got a kick out of the use of the light bulb.

In reading one of the letters I noticed one person said that ìMost who leave the Adventist church fell along the wayside and were never heard from again.î

I think the reason for that is that most are assimilated into the various evangelical denominations and life goes on rather than falling by the wayside in their Christian walk and no longer having anything in common with their former Adventist church group, not to mention the closed off world of Adventism.
Not ever ìhearing from them againî might have been the way it was in the old days but with the advent and commonality of the internet that is no longer true anyway, their voices are being heard.
All one has to do is read here and the last issue of proclamation to see that it is so.

Many of the Adventist will stay in their closed world but there will be many who will hear and is hearing the voice of the former Adventist.
There is a loud cry going out with one voice ìJesus is realî
The title to this thread is taken from the idea for the Star Trek next generation episode of ìThe Borgî the Borgís byline is ìYou will be assimilated.î

More and more Adventist are being ìassimilatedî into the large body of Christ to become one with the body of Christ.
I personally donít believe that the body of Christ is the weak thing described by the Adventist as ìThe remnantî.
I personally believe God has raised up a mighty army of Christian soldiers that marches into battle unafraid and undefeated by Satan and his crowd.

The very fact that there was an FAF weekend has got to tell you something.
It does make me wonder at the remark of the person that made the statement ìnever heard from againî it makes me sit here in amazement at the Adventist church, they are good at the Investigative Judgment, why donít they investigate the why of the necessity of Proclamation?
I sit here this morning in amazement at the Adventist, has the Adventist doctrine and blindness made them so dull of thinking? So dull of hearing and seeing? Good grief Charley Brown!!!

It seems to me that God sends some of the formers right back into the mission field too Adventist, folks such as Colleen and Richard, Dale Ratzlaff to name a few, the rest he assimilates into the various churches, not all are called as Colleen, Richard and Dale but all are called according to his purpose.
Now I may be all wet in everything I said here, my views are just that, my views.
You will be assimilated.
River
Lucybugg
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Username: Lucybugg

Post Number: 11
Registered: 2-2007
Posted on Thursday, March 01, 2007 - 7:06 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Praise the Lord, I've been assimilated!
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 5468
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Thursday, March 01, 2007 - 8:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes, Lucy, Praise the Lord!

River, I believe you are right in your assessment. There is another side to the coin, thoughóand that is that historically a great many people have "left" Adventism, but they left or drifted away because it just "didn't work" for them, or it was crazy-making, or it was hypociritcal. They did not leave for Jesus; they went into the world, lost and anxious people who could never think of looking for God anywhere but within Adventism.

Even though they left, they believed Adventism was actually true, so even though they couldn't "do" it, they couldn't look for truth in what they believed was Babylon.

About eight years ago we saw an online survey of the percentages of people who left Mormonism, JWs, and Adventists. As I recall, the website was something out of Australia. At any rate, it showed that only 2% of people who left Adventism ever attended any other Christian church again in their lives. The percentages for both Mormons and JW, although still very low (less than 10%, I believe), were higher than that for Adventists.

That survey helped us understand that there is a HUGE mission field among "Adventists". I suspect, although I do not have facts to prove it, that those percentages for Adventists may be higher today because, as you pointed out, River, the internet and the accessibility of information have given those thousands of despairing people some reasons for hope and for understanding Jesus in a completely new paradigm.

Yes, I also marvelled at that letter to which you refer. And no, those of us who have found and are finding the true gospel and the reality of Jesus our Lord are not 'going quietly into that dark night'. And our proclamation is not just for practicing Adventists. It is also for those who believe there is nowhere else to turn, those who feel spiritually trapped by Adventist "truth" but know that it makes no sense.

Jesus came to set the cpatives free, and He is even now setting free thousands of people who believe there is no place they can go after Adventism. There IS a place they can goóand that is into the presence of the true, real, vibrant Jesus who has already become their sin and has defeated the curse of the law and death.

He Livesóand He is bringing life to those who thought there was no hope!

Colleen
Ardyj
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Username: Ardyj

Post Number: 24
Registered: 8-2006


Posted on Thursday, March 01, 2007 - 8:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Colleen, what you have said is so true. "Even though they left, they believed Adventism was actually true, so even though they couldn't "do" it, they couldn't look for truth in what they believed was Babylon."

I have seen that over and over again in our little area encompassing two small towns. The great majority of folks who have left Adventism seek nothing else. Those that I have talked to say "I know adventism isn't right, but there is the sabbath". That is heard time and time again. I feel so badly; they are like lost little souls going from day to day really thinking they are lost because they strayed from adventism, but refuse to seriously study The Word for Truth.

I have given out several of Martin's books and keep an extra in my car. This not wanting to study the Word is a phenomenon I have trouble understanding. I guess that goes back to Colleen's statement quoted above. What else can it be?
Resting in Christ, Ardj
Grace_alone
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Username: Grace_alone

Post Number: 471
Registered: 6-2006


Posted on Thursday, March 01, 2007 - 9:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Resistance is fultile.

River you Trekkie... I had no idea!

Colleen, I was praying for you and Richard this morning. Thanking God for the ministry of FAF and praying for blessings and strength for you.

River, one thing I've always resented from my SDA family is the delight they take in almost bragging that people who leave the Adventist church either never join another or stop believing altogether. That really tells me that to them their church is equal to God. That their faith is in their doctrines (not Jesus) and the SDA church is their salvation. I've always been bothered that they would discourage anyone from worship unless it is Adventist.

Assimilation is right. I used to say that my husband was raised in a big Adventist bubble. Adventist family, Adventist church, Adventist schools, Adventist friends, Adventist books and programs, Adventist college, Adventist food, Adventist employers. Where are the checks and ballances? How can you even know you're in a cult if you're walking around in an Adventist world?

So glad Jesus is our rest and Salvation alone!

Live long and prosper,

Leigh Anne
River
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Username: River

Post Number: 547
Registered: 9-2006


Posted on Thursday, March 01, 2007 - 10:55 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

When my adopted Chinese Granddaughter was little I taught her her how to make the live long and prosper sign, she would hold up her tiny hand, fingers splayed and say "Live long and proster" Heh heh.
Ya gotta love the kids, course she wrapped me around her finger the minute my daughter came down the ramp and put her into my arms.I am blessed!!
River
Helovesme2
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Username: Helovesme2

Post Number: 846
Registered: 8-2004


Posted on Thursday, March 01, 2007 - 11:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ardj's mention of 'fallen-away' Adventists not wanting to study the word made me think of this article that was brought to my attention today. I wonder how much SDA angst about studying the Bible comes down to them not knowing how to hear anything but what they were taught to hear there?

Blessings,

Mary
River
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Username: River

Post Number: 548
Registered: 9-2006


Posted on Thursday, March 01, 2007 - 1:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mary,
Thank you for that article, he has ask the same questions that has plagued me since I first started delving into Adventist beliefs and this statement made by Jesus, John 10:27 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.

I believe the man answers what I have attempted to answer and articulate, Who are we looking for when we read the Bible, as he said and I have said before, they have the same Bible.
I am of the notion that Adventist read the Bible looking for Adventism, looking for EGW, looking for the Sabbath, looking to uphold the concept of their God, looking for proof of Adventism, but just as Jesus said in the garden ìWhom seek ye?î
I have had this feeling all along about them because every time one of my Adventist friends, although reading through the Bible verse by verse, comes upon one of his proof texts, such as Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. He gets excited, his voice rises and takes on a different tone.
Then he will read on as though a dead man is reading the text for the most part. Weird ainít it? And of course they get excited about Dan 8:14.

As I have said before, I cannot know for a fact as to whether they are saved or not, I do not have the power to look upon the heart but let me put it this way, I am uneasy and truly concerned for the Salvation of my Adventist friends just to put it simply.
I try to find peace about them but I cannot.
Why is that? I have no trouble concerning other Christians I know so why is there so much burdening of the heart and lack of peace concerning these people?
Thanks again Mary for the article.
River
River
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Username: River

Post Number: 549
Registered: 9-2006


Posted on Thursday, March 01, 2007 - 2:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I know I blab too much on here but I must write a little about my adopted Chinese Granddaughter.
She was left on a round concrete barrel shaped thing in front of the police station in a town in china I canít remember the spelling of right now and taken by the police to a local orphan-age at one month old.
At three months the adoption was finalized and my daughter traveled to China to get her.
When my daughter came down the ramp from the plane and placed her into my arms she was so week and tiny and listless, her eyes dull.
Needless to say we showered her with love and care, after about three or four days her eyes began to come alive and she began to follow with her eyes.
After a week she would smile, I would hold her in my lap for hours at a time. She began to be healthy and she thrived. I believe it was the love showered on her, we gave her the same formula she was used to in China.
She is eleven now and my pride and joy, she spends nearly every weekend with us now even though she has her church and little friends.

Jesus love can do the same for us, if we spend time with him, his constant love will cause us to thrive. His word is milk and his spirit is life.
If we allow him he will love us back to health of spirit, without his love we will grow listless and week just as my little adopted granddaughter languished away in an orphan-age in China, unloved and unwanted until we sought her out and Loved her.
River
Cw
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Username: Cw

Post Number: 128
Registered: 4-2006


Posted on Thursday, March 01, 2007 - 5:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Colleen, even though I'm not on the forum as much lately I still lurk and I enjoy Proclamation, especially "letters". Thank you all for having the guts to post the negative ones. Not having ever been SDA those letters say more to me about the mindset of SDA members (at least some of them) than anything. There is some real animosity there when they have judged you to have lost your salvation. I haven't read the rest of the publication yet but I'll take it with me to my weekend job and read it there. Keep up the good work and please don't ever let the negative comments sway you from the truth.
CW
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 5471
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Thursday, March 01, 2007 - 6:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

CW, thanks! Yes, there's a lot of anger, isn't there? I'm glad you enjoy the magazineóand yes, we publish those negative letters because, as Richard says, it's important for people who don't know much about Adventism to hear the background "noise" that always underlies what we do. It explains what theological discussion cannot.

Mary, what a great article. Thank you for posting that link. River, again your understanding is right on. Adventists read the Bible with an Ellen filter over their minds and hearts. They aren't, for the most part, even going to the Bible to "prove" their beliefs because they have been thoroughly taught that the Bible DOES prove their beliefs. Therefore, when they read the Bible, they KNOW that what they are reading supports what they have been taught to believe.

I know that I had to consciously begin to pray that God would help me to read the Bible without Ellen filters, because I had no idea where Ellen began and the Bible left off in my mental understanding. I was taught exactly what those proof-texts in the Bible meantóand it wasn't what they ACTUALLY mean as they appear in the word!

Only in Christ is the veil removedóand as we grow in Him, we have to keep submitting ourselves to the truths in the Word and to the teaching of the Holy Spirit. It takes years for those false definitions to fade completely. A certain desire for truth is necessary.

Colleen
River
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Username: River

Post Number: 550
Registered: 9-2006


Posted on Friday, March 02, 2007 - 5:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

One of my Adventist friends just called me and told me he was coming up to visit.
I told him I would go out and kill a Possom.
Heh heh heh.

He will be assimilated.
Resistance is futile.
River
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 5472
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Friday, March 02, 2007 - 11:56 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So River, how do your Adventist friends react to your offers to kill possums for them?!

Too funny!

Colleen
River
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Username: River

Post Number: 552
Registered: 9-2006


Posted on Friday, March 02, 2007 - 2:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

He said he didn't think he would get that hungry.
Flyinglady
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Username: Flyinglady

Post Number: 3424
Registered: 3-2004


Posted on Friday, March 02, 2007 - 5:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'MM BAACK!!!! And it feels so good to read what everyone has written so far. I got my computer back this afternoon. So much is going through my head right now.
My family are some of the unchurched SDA, who do not practice SDAism and do not give it up.
River, it sounds like your granddaughter is a sweetie. I am glad you have her.
Colleen, you and Richard are jewels.
Love to all of you.
Diana
Helovesme2
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Username: Helovesme2

Post Number: 849
Registered: 8-2004


Posted on Friday, March 02, 2007 - 6:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

:-) Welcome back Dianna! I missed your friendly, cheerful posts.

Mary
Grace_alone
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Username: Grace_alone

Post Number: 473
Registered: 6-2006


Posted on Friday, March 02, 2007 - 7:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Glad to see you again Diana! I missed you.

:-) Leigh Anne
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 5478
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Saturday, March 03, 2007 - 12:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Diana, I missed you, too. I'm so glad you're back!

Colleen
River
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Username: River

Post Number: 553
Registered: 9-2006


Posted on Saturday, March 03, 2007 - 3:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Glad you are back Dianna,
I got a little concerned about you until I remebered you were going to FAF week end.
River
Flyinglady
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Username: Flyinglady

Post Number: 3430
Registered: 3-2004


Posted on Saturday, March 03, 2007 - 5:45 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I really like the "You will be assimilated". I have been assimiliated into my church and the surrounding Christian community. I have various friends who go to different churches and when we talk it is like we have known each other since forever.
All of my sisters and one of my brothers have been those who just drifted away and are never heard from. My middle brother never was baptized and the youngest brother studied his way out of adventism but has never joined or attended another church after he asked that his name be removed. It was removed with no problem. My oldest sister was never baptized either. I could have one of these who just drifted away, but God did not want that for me. I am so thankful He reached down and directed my attention to the internet. The rest is history and here I am. Thank you God. You are awesome.
Diana

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