| Author | Message | ||
| Timmy Registered user Username: Timmy Post Number: 161 Registered: 8-2006  |
Hi all, I have not been able to participate in discussion due to time, but I do still lurk, (I get in less trouble that way)  A while back someone compared leaving Adventism to peeling an onion. Layer by layer. First of all when you do it it brings a tear to your eye because it is not easy. The first thin layers would be like realizing that voting and eating cheese were not a sin. The next maybe that meat eaters will be translated into heaven (Jesus did it) The thicker layers would be like the doctrines of death, Sabbath and prophecy. But this is why I bring this up. I think no one knows what the core of their onion is until they get there. I have been out for two years now and I think I just got to the core and with the help of God... overcame it. My core was more of a mentality than a belief. It was the mentality that everyone needs to believe and understand like me 'or else.' And I need to convince everyone of my beliefs. Once I have come to realize this core and leave it behind I have really been at peace. I am still frustrated that my old "friends" won't talk to me but I do have peace with the whole situation. I don't think you can answer this question if you have only been out a short time. But to those who have been out a while I would like to ask, What was your core? Did it surprise you when you realized what it was? Looking forward to your answers. I will be 'lurking' around. | ||
| Cathy2 Registered user Username: Cathy2 Post Number: 262 Registered: 2-2006 |
I think my 'peelings' were like yours in a few ways, Timmy. My first layer was Walter Rae's book 'The White Lie', in the early 80's. But I didn't get intensively peeled, learning repentence and my loving Savior, until years later. Back in the early 90's, I tried to share my joyfulness with my family--not trying to preach at them, just the joy of Jesus. I was so let down, when they didn't get it and respond. At that time, I didn't understand them and what the bondage and veil of Adventism is. Years later, I learned to let them go to God the Deliverer and prayer better, and I am still learning that even more (A great part due to this forum). Is that my core with Adventism? I don't know, but I know it's the best thing for me to do. Peeling in Christ, Cathy | ||
| Cselby Registered user Username: Cselby Post Number: 1 Registered: 3-2007 |
I left Adventism in the early 80's. My leaving had nothing to do with the controversy over EJW's plagiarism, rather the ostrification of my family following my parent's divorce. Suddenly I was no longer allowed into the homes of some of the most prominent "leaders" in the church. This blatently cruel treatment left me bitter and alone. I outright rejected Adventism and all Christianity. I have turned over every possible spiritual rock in the peeling of my onion. Exploring from Eastern philosophies to pagan rituals, but all left me empty. Here's the curious thing...all roads lead back to Christianity. That is the belief system that felt like the best fit. Now I realize that this last statement looks like I was looking for a "designer belief system" but nothing could be farther from the truth. I have found as I peeled away the vestiges of my early Adventist experience that each rock I looked under, I did so with the heartfelt intention of finding a spiritual home. The beauty of growing and maturing is that jagged edges of bitterness begin to wear away and more relevant questions surface, such as...what good can I glean from my experience with Adventism? While I don't accept the basic dogma of Adventism and I don't believe EJW as being a prophet of God, there are basic Christian principles that are true and that are still inside me dormant. So about 4 months ago I gave Christianity another shot. I decided that the one source that I would place my trust in was the Bible. I began reading and praying ernestly for God to show me what to do, where to find his truth. Which leads me to my core. I discovered how deeply embedded the tenets of Adventism were. I had tremendous difficulty with the old ideas related to Adventism and the 10 commandments and more specifically Sabbath keeping. Then one day Proclamation arrived in my mailbox. I had been praying that God show me how to resolve this final question regarding Sabbath keeping and he provided. My core Timmy was the final acknowledgement of the embedded Adventist dogma, a dogma that has remained hidden for more than 25 years and the realization that through Christ's sacrifice on the cross that I am free. His sacrifice has saved me, not Adventism. By the way, this is my first posting on forum. I'm a new member and I'm so grateful to have an outlet where I can explore and share my experiences as I grow in Christ's love. Cindy | ||
| Cathy2 Registered user Username: Cathy2 Post Number: 263 Registered: 2-2006 |
Welcome Cindy! In my early 20's, I periphally was around the Eastern and other philosophies, too, in my seeking and 'peeling'. God doesn't let go, though, as you can confirm! I think, for many of us, we were loney for the true Christ and didn't know it...seeking for Him, wherever we could in our not knowing. And He made sure that He was found. It is a common experience among many of us that the Sabbath ends up as that 'final question' we desperately need to resolve, as you did, in Scripture. And God has resolved it for us all. Welcome, among those, who can relate to what you have walked. God bless you~ Cathy | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5499 Registered: 12-2003  |
Dear Cindy, Welcome to the forum. We're so glad that you've joined us; I assure you that over time we'll share a lot and grow a lot together. Jesus is the glue in this "virtual" community! He teaches us and strengthens us as we hold each other up and learn together. We look forward to hearing more of your story! Tim, interesting question and observations. I relate to your "sequences". My first layers began when I jettisoned the IJ after reading Des Ford's Galcier View defense along with the book of Daniel. But I still held onto Ellen, the Sabbath, etc. In some ways I feel that still, eight years after leaving the church, I'm still finding new facets to my experience with Adventism and healing from it. If I were to identify a core, however, it would without doubt be my recognition (which has intensified as the years have passed) that Ellen White was a false prophet (not just "not a prophet") and that false prophets have input from Satan. This recognition made it possible for me to experience Jesus' healing and freedom in several ways, which I'll list below: 1. I was able to ask God to remove the spirit of Adventism and to replace it with the Holy Spirit in the place where Adventism had previously held my heart. 2. My prayer for the Holy Spirit to replace the spirit of Adventism completely removed all my old emotional attachments to Adventism, the "looking backward" urge I had to see how people were reacting to me, worrying about what they'd think, feelings of nostalgia and longingóall those disappeared. I realized I was completely secure in Jesus and even if my SDA friends and family didn't understand, I was still secure and my life had meaning and purpose. 3. Realizing the spiritual nature of Adventist deception helped me see that even if the Adventists were critical or argumentative or disapprovingóeven if they withdrew from meóI didn't have to make them understand. 4. Realizing the underlying spiritual claim on Adventism has removed my confusion about whether or not Adventism is viable or partly viable. Because of the spirit of deception underlying it, the whole backage is tainted. 5. This understanding that the conflict between formers who have found Jesus and Adventism is not doctrinal but spiritual has made evangelism to them much more clear to me. They need not only to hear the true gospel, but they need to see the brokenness of their own belief system. This realization has also helped me to see that I cannot change an Adventist's mind. I can provide informatiom and can be available to talk and witness, but my most powerful and consistent call is to pray for them, because only the Holy Spirit can awaken an Adventist to see the cracks in SDAism and to desire truth. Good question, Tim! Colleen | ||
| Jeremiah Registered user Username: Jeremiah Post Number: 200 Registered: 1-2004  |
Welcome to FAF Cindy! Reading your story made me remember the time when I too decided that Christianity was true. It seems I approached it from a slightly different angle though; I decided I could and would believe in Christ after some study of the origins and history of Christianity. My attitude toward the Bible was that it was to be my primary source material about Jesus. In other words the New Testament was a witness to Jesus who I decided to believe and follow. Reading the Bible, especially the book of Galatians, after that decision was where the trouble with those core SDA doctrines began. I still thought the Sabbath should be kept but St Paul suddenly appeared to disagree with me! It took much prayer, study, and time for me to become confident that most likely what St Paul appeared to say was actually what he meant. I did eventually also look to those really early Christian writers for a second opinion on things. It appears to me that they also took St Paul's writings as they read. Jeremiah | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 478 Registered: 6-2006  |
Hi Cindy, Good to see you - welcome! I look forward to reading more from you. Timmy, good to see you too! I can relate to your peeling an onion idea. My husband seems to be peeling away, albiet very slowly, from Adventism. I notice that every once in a while he makes an observation or a comment or even takes an action that would be totally against Adventism, and they seem to be getting broader and more frequent as time goes by. He'll still say things like "I still believe the Sunday Law is a possibility", but even today he made a comment on how he doesn't quite believe that the SDA church is the "true church" anymore. I thanked God that he is letting my husband's change come slowly, which in the long run, fits best for his personal nature. It's neat to be able to look at that as layers being peeled from his "onion"! Onions stink sometimes, (don't we all?!) but then again they sure make delicious meals. Leigh Anne (onion ring lover) | ||
| Mwh Registered user Username: Mwh Post Number: 535 Registered: 4-2006  |
Welcome Cindy I wish you will find lots of comfort, knowledge and outlet here In His joy, Martin | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3443 Registered: 3-2004  |
Cindy, Welcome to FAF. I am so glad you are here. The journey with Jesus Christ is exciting and I love it. I will have to get back to you later about my core. I cannot put a finger on it at this time. I just got in from work. When I have more time to think about it, I will write more. What an awesome God we have, that He brings His sheep to Him. Diana | ||
| Cw Registered user Username: Cw Post Number: 129 Registered: 4-2006  |
Welcome to FAF Cindy. You have picked a great place for the support you need. Some of us, like me, have never been SDA. But I don't have to have been a smoker either to know it must be hard to quit. The fact that you are now seeking your answers from scripture instead of through EGW's "filters" (someone recently used that term here and I like it), shows you're headed in the right direction. And welcome back to Christianity. It's not a religion, it's a relationship. CW | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 854 Registered: 8-2004  |
Welcome Cindy! | ||
| Patriar Registered user Username: Patriar Post Number: 295 Registered: 3-2005 |
Cindy: Welcome, welcome, welcome! Praise God that you're here! What a story you must have. I'd love to hear more... Timmy: Definitely: learning to rely on Jesus alone. Learning that He's the answer no matter the question. As an Adventist, I thought that when the Bible says 'Seek ye first the Kingdom of God and all these things will be added unto you", it meant if I kept the Sabbath, He'd give me stuff. Now I realize that the point--seeking HIM with all my heart-- makes everything else fall into place; sometimes in the way things happen, and sometimes in a change in my perspective and attitude. In either case, He is the answer. Patria | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5504 Registered: 12-2003 |
I'd love to see this thread continue. Such a great quesetion, Tim! Patria, I relate to your answer. It is more and more clear that Jesus is my "great reward". He makes Himself known as I'm willing to surrender whatever it is I'm focusing on. I just got an email this week that said, "In the very last days, there will be no one denomination standing, whether Seventh-day Adventist, Baptist, Catholics, Muslims, or even Atheists. There will only be two groups of people, those who keep all of God's Commandments through God's grace (see Rev. 14;12; 1 Jon. 3:9,10), and those who do not. Where will you be?" It's interesting, isn't it, that there's no mention of being in Christ or loving Jesus? Yesterday a "former" we know told us that he asked an Adventist friend recently if he thought the blood of Jesus or the 10 Commandments were more important. The friend couldn't answer the question. The concept of being "in Jesus" is mystifying to people bound in another gospel. It's really tragic, in the classic sense of "tragedy" being the downfall of a noble hero because of a "fatal flaw" in him. Colleen | ||
| Cselby Registered user Username: Cselby Post Number: 2 Registered: 3-2007 |
I just want to thank everyone for their warm welcoming. I KNOW IN MY HEART that I am on the right path and how joyous it is to share that path with others. I loved CW's comment that it is not a religion, it's a relationship. I couldn't agree more and as each day passes and as I study the scriptures more a relationship...no, my love for Christ grows. What an awesome experience. Cindy | ||
| Cortney Registered user Username: Cortney Post Number: 9 Registered: 8-2006 |
My husband is a non-practicing Adventist,he and his family have more conviction regarding the Sabbath Truth, then they do about having a personal relationship with Christ. It' almost as if they worship the 'creation' , the sabbath, over the 'Creator'! That seems pretty anti-gospel to me. I don't understand why it has to be that way with some SDA's. | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 560 Registered: 9-2006  |
Welcome Cindy, As God peels the layers of doubt and confusion away he replaces it with his own love. Please share your story with us if and when you feel like it. River | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5507 Registered: 12-2003 |
Cortney, that "Sabbath worship" is the outward manifestation of the core deception of Adventism. It is NOT about Jesus, bottom line. It is about Adventism. Sometimes I wish I could somehow share the experience of opening the mail with some of those who believe today's Adventism is not really a cult. Adventism is Adventismóand the level of fear, anger, vitriol, and projection of their own cognitive dissonance onto us is profound. And the interesting thing is, almost all the letters have the same tone, the same arguments and accusations. This sort of absolute condemnation, fear, and final judgment can only come from people who are profoundly deceived and fearful of losing their paradigm. It can only come from people who do not know what Jesus really did. Sigh. Colleen | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 1725 Registered: 10-2004  |
Cortney, Well, Adventism actually teaches that the Sabbath (and time in general) was not created, but has always existed uncreated--which, by definition, puts it in the category of a god. Jeremy | ||
| Timmy Registered user Username: Timmy Post Number: 162 Registered: 8-2006 |
Colleen, Did you see the presentation the history channel had on Gallilao? I found it very interesting but I about fell out of my chair when Gallilao (sp?) told the church leaders to look though his telescope to see for themselves that Jupitor had several moons. At that time the church taught that those bright stars were suns, and to dissagree with with the church would be blasphemy and even death. So one by one the leaders would look into the telescope and say, "I don't see anything." Apparently the whole 'cognitive dissonance' thing is not new. All those things you said "absolute condemnation, fear, and final judgment" applied back then to another church system. Makes me wonder who is the mother of who? Anyhow... I am very facinated with all the onions. I can relate to all at one level or another, I should have been more careful when I read your post Cindy. I was at work and a customer walked in right after I read it, he must have been startled by my runny nose and stressed look, becaused he asked if I was O.K... I lied and said I thought I was catching a cold...HA! It really touched me when you said, "all roads lead back to Christ" because this is what I experienced as well. Patria says, "learning to rely on Jesus alone" there's a good one, I was taught to do it myself... now I have relearned I can't do any of it myself. Not an easy transition. There must be more cores out there. The forum went down shortly after I posted. The question was, "What was your core and did it surprise you once you found out what it was?" | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 574 Registered: 9-2006 |
Timmy, The reference to the analogy of ìlike peeling and onion ìwas from an earlier post of mine. I was talking to my son one day when he made this statement ìDad, God is peeling me like and onionî and I was so struck by the analogy that I remembered it, that has been my Christian experience for the last 35 years. I would tend to think that all our experiences are like that. As I did not have an Adventist core or layer to begin with, I am useless in that regard. I think it was Richard who made the statement ìHe is peeling away everything but Christî. If I told you about my son, his position in this life, it would amaze you. God can peel away the most difficult layers once we have been born of his Spirit. The core of Adventism is man (flesh), the core of Christianity is Christ. The core (nature) of man must be replaced with Christ for the peeling to begin. IMO. River | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 575 Registered: 9-2006 |
Speaking of the onion analogy, the lord is peeling away the brown useless husks of our works which cannot stand the day of his coming. The Bible also terms it like the process of refining Gold, Gods Spirit burns away the dross of useless works. In one place Jesus uses terms of the winnowing of wheat, he says the chaff will be burned in the fire. If he takes and begins to peel an Aventist heís liable to end up peeling the whole thing away when he gets through peeling away the husks of dead works. Will the remaining husk fall away in his hand? Will the Adventist be able to stand the winnowing and have a pure kernel of grain fall to Christ threshing floor or will he just completely blow away in the wind? Will the Adventist stand the heat of the smelter of Godís purifying Spirit? Or will the dross of dead works parish in the flames? Will I be able to stand in the flames of his purifying fire? That is a question I do not like to ask of myself. River |
