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Message |
Helovesme2
Registered user
Username: Helovesme2
Post Number: 878
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, March 15, 2007 - 8:45 am: |     |
River wrote,
quote:Evangelicals need to be aware of what Adventism teaches but unless I am invited I will not speak of it before a congregation, realizing that we cannot force feed them no more than we can force feed Adventist so most of the work is left up to prayer on my part and whatever person to person ministry presents itself or that God brings about.
Amen River. This is why our weapons cannot be carnal, but rather "mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds; Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ." This is why the LORD Almighty said "not by might, Not by might nor by power, but by my Spirit."
This is also why I have hope, even though the outlook, humanly speaking, is often grim. God is in charge of drawing all to Himself. We get to let Him work in and through us! And if He does not direct us to act in a particular instance we can be assured that it's because He's taking care of it a different way. (of course, if he DOES direct us to act we'd better act!!)
Life is so much more satisfying knowing Him!
Blessings,
Mary |
Jackob
Registered user
Username: Jackob
Post Number: 449
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, March 15, 2007 - 9:18 am: | |
Hey River,
I'm not so serious as I look, just posted a joke. Regarding your sense of humour, I would like to enjoy it more, but since english is my second language, and you're using beautiful american expressions with such colours, it's not easy for me to enjoy them.
I really like your presence on the forum, even if I have not expressed myself about it. I have two kids at home, a son of 3 and half years and a girl of 9 months, that sometimes it's hard to keep pace with the posts here on the forum. I read a lot, but it's hard for me to find time to write something, so I usually end by writing only "serious stuff", as River said.
Keep on the firing line, River
Jackob |
Olga
Registered user
Username: Olga
Post Number: 55
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, March 15, 2007 - 10:30 am: | |
River you said:
"I believe Jesus was speaking much deeper that a physical prison when he stated that he ìwas sick and in prison and ye visited me notî he told the disciples he was giving them the ìKeysî of the kingdom, what will we do with those ìKeysî that he gives us?
They are for opening prison doors, not to tuck safely in our pockets and baggage, our ìKeysî need to be shiny and bright with use, not dull and cankered from disuse. "
I think you are in the right path and listening to the Holy Spirit.
You seem to be following the advice given on verse 22 of the book of Jude:
"Show mercy to some people who have doubts. Take others out of the fire, and save them. Show mercy mixed with fear to others, hating even their clothes which are dirty from sin."
I wish I was brave enough to talk to my folks about everything that's wrong with Adventism (they know I'm no longer a follower of Adventism), however, I hate confrontation so I just pray for a change of heart in them or for someone to help open their 'prison' and undo those chains.
God bless you as you seek those prisoners.
Olga
(Message edited by olga on March 15, 2007) |
Ardyj
Registered user
Username: Ardyj
Post Number: 27
Registered: 8-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, March 15, 2007 - 12:27 pm: | |
I remember as a teenager in adventism, hoping that I could watch the "signs" and get myself "shaped up" before the close of probation. But then, there was that pesky thing of the IJ. What if my name came up for judgment before I got myself ready? It seemed to be pretty much a no win situation. Actually, really hopeless as far as I was concerned because I was sort of a rebel as a teenager. But then, I wasn't as bad as some; and on and on in that kind of thinking. And I, like Colleen, thought my time in Hell would be shorter than some, anyway! Mind boggling, isn't it?
One day in the foyer at church, I heard several ladies talking about the son of one of our former pastors. This young man had been killed in a car accident, and these gals were talking about whether he had been drinking before the accident. After all, if he were drunk, he would have no chance for salvation. And I thought to myself, "how could these people possibly be thinking something like that after this tragedy?" Oh, the twisted minds this cult produced, and I'm afraid is still producing.
Evangelicals do not understand Adventism pretty much as a general rule. But there are some that really would like to know more. It was so interesting to watch and listen as our daughter studied her way out of adventism. The Berean Church she had started to attend has a very wonderful spirit-filled Pastor. It so happened that several sda's were transitioning out and had started attending this church also. This Pastor studied adventism, and ministered to these individuals in such a great way. The Holy Spirit led my daughter, her friends and this Pastor in a fantastic manner. God is sooooo good!!!!!
Ardyj |
River
Registered user
Username: River
Post Number: 600
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, March 15, 2007 - 12:45 pm: | |
Olga,
I don't think confrontation will get much of anywhere with them anyway.
Thats why I said most of the work is left up to prayer on my part and talking with them on a person to person basis as the opportunity arises or God presents me with one.
All you need bravery for is to be your own sweet, gentle self.
What we need we already possess.
River |
River
Registered user
Username: River
Post Number: 601
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, March 15, 2007 - 12:51 pm: | |
Wow!! Ardyj, that is really amazing!! |
River
Registered user
Username: River
Post Number: 602
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, March 15, 2007 - 1:14 pm: | |
This morning I was talking with my wife as we have Adventist friends on the way up.
I told her I ought to go out and kill one of those old house cat's that hangs around and fry it up and then when they get here, present it to them on a nice plate, the legs sticking up and say "Would you folks like some nice fresh Cat?"
I even grossed my wife out, aren't I mean?
I'm sittin in the living room laughing as she got up and left the room.
Course I would never do it but it was fun to think about. The thought has kept me entertained the whole morning.
Once a Mom ask her little girl to turn thanks as they had company at table.
The little girl said "I don't know what to say.
The Mom says "Just say what I do" so the little girl bowed her head and said sweetly "Oh God, why did I invite all these people to dinner!" 
River
Would any of you folks like to visit? I'll leave the light on for ya.
(Message edited by river on March 15, 2007) |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 5551
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, March 15, 2007 - 5:24 pm: | |
Ha! I admit that the over-the-top humor is sometimes the way we relieve stress around here, too, when the negative feedback gets too deep.
We laughed like we'd just heard a great joke last week when we got a get well card from someone who didn't like Proclamation. "We hope you recover from your illness soon," it said (or something close to that).
Hey, we'll look for yer light, River!
Colleen |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 3477
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, March 15, 2007 - 5:29 pm: | |
Hey River, I have a niece in Portland. Are you anywhere near there? If you are, I would like to meet you and your wife when I go visit my niece.
And if you ever make it to Vegas again, let me know.
God is so good to bless us with this family we have on FAF.
He is awesome.
Diana |
River
Registered user
Username: River
Post Number: 603
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, March 15, 2007 - 7:06 pm: | |
Yes, in the Portland area, don't plan on going to Lost wages any way soon but one never knows.
Come on down we got plenty of road kill.
I talked to an ex Highway Patrolman I know who lives in Parump, he told me the murder rate is about 8 a day there now so guess Vegas proper is getting pretty bad, always thought Henderson was a nice little town though.
My family all lives around here now and I don't travel much anymore.
Colleen, ha, some Adventist had a sense of humor or maybe it was a cut but funny anyhow.
On the serious side, I worked on a new musical piece; the title to it is "The Long Night".
I worked on it this afternoon for about an hour and a half.
The setting for the piece is "From the Garden to the cross".
It will be purely solo guitar, I wanted to come up with something unusual, it rises and falls in crescendo as the lord is greeted by Judas and on from there to the cross.
It is the story of Jesus crucifixion put to strings. I followed the story in my mind and played out the drama. I thought a time or two that strings would begin to break or something else on there but they held together. It is dramatic.
I do pray that the Holy Spirit will help me to develop it into a finished work.
River |
River
Registered user
Username: River
Post Number: 604
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, March 15, 2007 - 7:16 pm: | |
Jacob,
It sounds like you have a beautiful family, I love the children, just kidding about the serious.
I like all you wrote about, it was a blessing.
I pray blessings for you and yours, be sure to write more when you have the time.
River |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 3478
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, March 15, 2007 - 7:53 pm: | |
River, I laughed at the comment about road kill. Here is the story behind it. When my son was 14 he joined the Civil Air Patrol. When they had weekend activities, all the cadets rode together with the deputy commander of cadets. He was a character. He told the cadets to always carry an eating utensil on their uniform. When ever he saw a road kill, he would yell out "spoon check". Those who did not have a spoon, had to do push ups when they got to their destination. My son enjoyed it. As an adult he is still a member of the CAP.
That is what road kill made me think of.
Diana |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 3479
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, March 15, 2007 - 7:57 pm: | |
Colleen, I forgot to mention about that card you got. I can imagine the laughter. We need humor because if we did not, I know I would cry. I do not like crying over things I cannot change. So, I am thankful for the humor God gave us. He is so awesome.
Diana |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 5553
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 16, 2007 - 10:02 am: | |
OK, I have to share another thing that made Richard and me laughóin fact, I still break out laughing when I remember it. I was editing articles for Proclamation this week. Dale Ratzlaff has written a great pastor's column about the Sabbath, and at one point he meant to say, "The Ten Commandments are external. The law of Christ is internal."
By accident, however, with some auto-correction from the spell-checker, his first sentence came out this way: "The Ten Commandoes are external." Not bad!
I'm still laughing...!!
Colleen |
Dennis
Registered user
Username: Dennis
Post Number: 1014
Registered: 4-2000
| | Posted on Friday, March 16, 2007 - 3:14 pm: | |
River,
I have a daughter that lives in the Portland area. Also, I know of some former SDA pastors there. Sadly, the "City of Roses" has become the meth capital in the Northwest. You truly live in a very scenic, beautiful area.
Since Adventists tend to be highly judgmental, they do not know how to deal with drug abuse in their midst. The Adventist members who fall into chemical addictions are quickly judged as undesirables or losers. Consequently, after successful treatment, these so-called "undesirables" find it impossible to earn back any respect in the Adventist community. This graceless behavior translates into their believing in the "once a sinner, always a sinner" paradigm. The SDA grapevine (gossip machine) continues to irritate the wounds of those trying to heal and recover from their addictions.
Dennis Fischer |
River
Registered user
Username: River
Post Number: 605
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Friday, March 16, 2007 - 4:24 pm: | |
Dennis,
That is really sad; I donít believe anyone is exempt from temptation and lifeís trials.
But for grace have any of us hope, if we cannot forgive and help those recover who are weak and stumble then how are we Christís?
Yes, meth is a big problem here in the North West.
There was recently an article in the paper about a jail chaplain who detailed how he could not service all the ones that need him because there are so many.
They are in and out of the jails and the jails are constantly over crowded.
He told about some that he tryís to minister to and help and they go out and come back a couple months later and are completely insane.
Itís a sad old torn world we live in old buddy and I look forward to the day when formers outnumber the hard liners.
Keep yer chin up Dennis.
River |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 5554
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 16, 2007 - 4:39 pm: | |
Dennis, I pray for you, Sylvia, and your daughter regularly.
Colleen |
Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2
Post Number: 2408
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, March 17, 2007 - 11:04 am: | |
Since this topic is about death I'll add my two cents worth. All my life I have been plagues with extermely vivid dreams, othen these dreams become nightmares. Then being raised SDA it only made my situtation hundreds times worse because I was taught that dead people are really asleep in their coffins. Now, some SDA's believe that the dead are really totally 100% dead and thus at resurrection time the person will be recreated. This is different to the same person being resurrected. That would then be an entirelly new person. I have had SDA's tell me they believe this way because in the Bible it says "all things will be made new". Other SDA's though believe when a person is dead the person is really asleep in the grave, which is not total annialiaion at all. When I'm asleep I am not dead. I am in a different state of consciousness though than when I'm awake. Needless to say being prone to wild, scary dreams as a kid and being taught the various underastandings of the SDA thinking about death, well, the idea of death was very frightening to me. I remember as a child telling the grownups that since no one knows the hour or the day when Jesus will return it could turn into zillions and zillions of years and I was so afriad of having nightmares for zillions of years that I would lay in bed as a little girl and pray that my parents religion was wrong because I didn't wast to have a zillion years of nightmares. I figured if I was asleep then that's what would happen. The very first SDA doctrine I shed was the SDA doctrines of the state of the deceased. After I read the passage where Paul (?) is lamenting if he'd rather be dead and go be with Jesus or if he'd rather be alive and get his work done, well, that solved the mystery in my mind. The SDA's versions understandings about death are totally warped. It's funny too that as a kid in the SDA school the main text we were required to memorize was John 3:16. That is one of the main texts I hear at Christian funerals with the part, "that whosoever believes in Him WILL NOT DIE BUT HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE" emphasied. |
Nicole
Registered user
Username: Nicole
Post Number: 44
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, March 17, 2007 - 4:33 pm: | |
I can't imagine what it must have been like growing up SDA. I feel so bad for my poor husband. I am sure he carries those beliefs around with him still. Hopefully one day he will be open to discussing some of those things. |
Grace_alone
Registered user
Username: Grace_alone
Post Number: 488
Registered: 6-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, March 17, 2007 - 6:58 pm: | |
Nicole, is your husband still active SDA, or do you attend a church together?
Leigh Anne |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 5558
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, March 17, 2007 - 7:40 pm: | |
Nicole, I do pray regularly for you and your husband (you, too, Leigh Anne!).
Nicole, your husband likely does have some deep, profound fears. My guess is that he's "stuffed" them so he doesn't have to deal with or feel themóand that's why he won't talk about them.
I pray that he will catch a glimpse of the true Jesus and His finished work. Then he'll be able to revisit those fears and allow God to heal them. God will use you, Nicole, in ministering to him in the way he needs.
I love what Elizabeth, our women's Bible study leader says: God has no Plan B. He uses even our bad decisions to bring about His purposes. We can trust that He will accomplish His purposes, and we can trust Him in our lives and with our loved ones.
Colleen |
Nicole
Registered user
Username: Nicole
Post Number: 46
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Monday, March 19, 2007 - 5:41 am: | |
leigh anne,
in the almost fifteen years that i have known my husband, he has never attended an SDA church on his own. we have gone maybe five times to meet his mom there or for some other occassion, but that is it. his family is a large, very devout SDA family. he is probably the only one (that i can think of) who not only doesn't attend the SDA church, but actually goes somewhere else ( he goes to church with me, always has, voluntarily). but i know now how much the sda church doctrines have shaped how he thinks, probably about everything. Colleen is probably right, he must have "shelved" the beliefs he was raised with, because they are rarely mentioned and never "discussed". I definitley was ignorant to what adventism really was all about up until a year or so ago. things now make a lot more sense after being on this forum. it is eerie how the internal and external thought processes and "way of life" is almost identical to all adventists. |
Nicole
Registered user
Username: Nicole
Post Number: 47
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Monday, March 19, 2007 - 5:45 am: | |
and colleen, i too like what your friend , elizabeth, said at your bible study. it does take the weight and frustration (and saddness for him) off of my shoulders, knowing that if i make a mistake, God can still use that for His purpose. |
Godssonjp
Registered user
Username: Godssonjp
Post Number: 21
Registered: 1-2007
| | Posted on Monday, March 19, 2007 - 12:24 pm: | |
I know I'm going off-topic here, but I'm hoping that someone can shed some light on this for me. Colleen, you said "I love what Elizabeth, our women's Bible study leader says: God has no Plan B." This is not in the same context of what was said here, but it triggered a thought of what my former SDA pastor preached on day.
He said something to the effect of God going to Plan B after Adam and Eve sinned. Plan A was for Adam to pass the test and not sin so that we all would live perfectly with Him forever. (Or something like that) I found it kind of odd that God would need a "Plan B" since I know that He makes no mistakes. I'm not sure exactly where the thought came from. But, I know it has something to do with EGW saying something about somehting in the Garden of Eden after Adam sinned. Can someone help me out with this? |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 3487
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Monday, March 19, 2007 - 12:42 pm: | |
Godssonjp,
Now that you mention it, my computer in my head has brought to my memory something like what you said that I learned in SDA schools.
Diana |
Helovesme2
Registered user
Username: Helovesme2
Post Number: 883
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Monday, March 19, 2007 - 2:25 pm: | |
Yes, I was taught that when we sin, God has to scrap whatever plans he had based on our not 'failing that test' and move on to plan B, or C, or ZZZZ. It was often quoted as a comfort that God has a thousand ways of which we know nothing - lets just hope nobody hits 1001! (Now I do believe that God has a multitude of ways of accomplishing things that we don't know - but that's not because He needs Plan B.)
Contrast that with the witness of a lady in Sunday school this week (I'm paraphrasing from memory): "God has been reminding me lately that I need to call [---] to chat, to let them know that they are missed (from church) and that I still care about them and God still loves them no matter what. . . God has been reminding me about it for quite awhile now and I haven't done it. But you know what? That doesn't surprise him! He knew I wasn't going to respond yet. And He knew I needed the reminders anyway! They have led me to pray for [---] for hours sometimes, and have also helped me decide to contact that person this week."
You know, God is not surprised when we sin. He is not surprised when we gain victories. He is not surprised at all. He is in control. He is on top of things. He knows us inside and out. He knows what we have done and will do. He knows what we have thought and will think. And He loves us anyway!! He knows the plans he has for us. And He WILL accomplish them. What an awesome God we serve! He is worthy of our adoration, submission, and praise!!
Blessings,
Mary |
Helovesme2
Registered user
Username: Helovesme2
Post Number: 884
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Monday, March 19, 2007 - 2:41 pm: | |
Besides what I just posted, the discussion of God's will here reminded me of this thread from several years back.
It's such a joy to know that we cannot surprise or disappoint God because He already knows us inside and out; past, present, and future. . . that He loves us and saves us is even more amazing when we understand this!
Mary |
Grace_alone
Registered user
Username: Grace_alone
Post Number: 490
Registered: 6-2006
| | Posted on Monday, March 19, 2007 - 2:54 pm: | |
Nicole, my husband is in exactly the same boat as yours! He hasn't voluntarily gone to SDA church in the 13 years we've been married, and has been attending my church with me for the last 4 years. It's interesting, just the other day we were discussing apologizing. He told me that because he was part of the remnant, it was very hard to admit to a mistake, or apologize. I had to giggle a little, because it sounded so silly. So I asked, do you still feel that you or the SDA church is the remnant? and he answered, "No, I don't feel that way at all anymore!" There are still things that come up - he's still got the "Is it EGW or the Bible" on his mind, and he hasn't renounced her as a prophet, but every now and then I notice the layers peeling away.
Leigh Anne |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 5566
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 19, 2007 - 11:09 pm: | |
Hi, Godssonjp! Yes, I also heard that about God resorting to Plan B when Adam sinned. Ellen also said that Jesus had to plead with the Father three times before God agreed to allow Jesus to come be the Savior.
The idea that God is not sovereign and that Jesus is not equal to God is amazing.
Mary, you explained that so well. I love the example of the lady at church!
Leigh Anne, I'd say your husband is definitely having his layers peeled away! Still praying...
Colleen |
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