| Author | Message | ||
| Jeremiah Registered user Username: Jeremiah Post Number: 204 Registered: 1-2004  |
Does anyone else remember being afraid of death, while an Adventist? I do... Apparently it's not really a Christian thing to be afraid of death. Look at this quote from St Athanasius way back in the 4th century; "A very strong proof of this destruction of death and its conquest by the cross is supplied by a present fact, namely this. All the disciples of Christ despise death; they take the offensive against it and, instead of fearing it, by the sign of the cross and by faith in Christ trample on it as on something dead. Before the divine sojourn of the Savior, even the holiest of men were afraid of death, and mourned the dead as those who perish. But now that the Savior has raised His body, death is no longer terrible, but all those who believe in Christ tread it underfoot as nothing, and prefer to die rather than to deny their faith in Christ, knowing full well that when they die they do not perish, but live indeed, and become incorruptible through the resurrection. But that devil who of old wickedly exulted in death, now that the pains of death are loosed, he alone it is who remains truly dead. There is proof of this too; for men who, before they believe in Christ, think death horrible and are afraid of it, once they are converted despise it so completely that they go eagerly to meet it, and themselves become witnesses of the Savior's resurrection from it. Even children hasten thus to die, and not men only, but women train themselves by bodily discipline to meet it. So weak has death become that even women, who used to be taken in by it, mock at it now as a dead thing robbed of all its strength." - from the work "On the Incarnation". Here's looking forward to Easter! Jeremiah | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5541 Registered: 12-2003  |
Yes, JeremiahóI was terrified of death. I don't look forward to the process of death (or of losing loved ones), but I can truly say that death itself is not fearsome any longer. I know where I'll be! Colleen | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3470 Registered: 3-2004  |
I was terrified of death also. I no longer am. Thank you God. You are awesome. Diana | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 589 Registered: 9-2006  |
I hope you guys ain,t gettin up a load to go now. If so, would you mind if I just waited on the last bus? And don't worry about a thing, I'll feed your dog for ya! | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 874 Registered: 8-2004  |
LOL! I agree with you River! At the same time, it's awesome to be free of the fear of death that I had before becoming free in Christ. Mary | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 591 Registered: 9-2006 |
Well, hello there Mary! Its good to see your smiling face this morning! Usually I am about the only one prowling around on here this time of day. Yes I know what you mean, we can submit and rest in his grace. Just in one of my comic moods this morning. I get up at three and have Bible study, prayer and so forth, everybody else is asleep and I have already been blessed. River | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 876 Registered: 8-2004 |
 Back east here the day is already clicking by. I've already delivered the kids to school and am getting on with my day. It's a beautiful, blue-sky, big puffy clouds floating around after a light shower, sunshiny, daffodilly day! (but then all days are beautiful in Jesus - even the gloriously gray ones) Good to see you too! I love reading the board, but it's more fun when there are other people reading and posting at the same time! | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 593 Registered: 9-2006 |
I live on the Pacific rim, is cloudy and now 7:15 A.M. and if I waited for the sky to clear to be happy I would only be happy two months out of the year. My golden willows that I planted last fall are getting tiny leaves on them and I am a happy camper in Jesus. River | ||
| Olga Registered user Username: Olga Post Number: 53 Registered: 11-2005 |
River, I love your sense of humor!!!! Always makes me laugh. As for me, I don't fear it the way I used to, but admit I do sometimes worry about the "how" and "when" of my last day here on earth; I don't dwell on it but do worry about not getting things done or being "better" in my roles as mother, wife, daughter, friend, etc. Not sure if this makes sense. I also do worry about my parents and their health and pray if they pass before the Lord comes back that theirs will be as painless as possible and that they will come to know the Real Jesus. Make sense? | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 594 Registered: 9-2006 |
Well, and Hi there Olga, yes, what you say makes perfect sense. I would like to get more accomplished, have souls I want to see saved. would also like to improve my relationships as a father to my four son's and daughter, The Bible does say work while it is yet day, I pray for another one. Its like the this "I ain't afraid of flying its the landing that worry's me. Long as I,M up in the air I,m fine but that airport runway looks awful small down there. I was in a jet, looking down when I saw another jet passing going the other way, now 450 miles an hour time two is 950 miles an hour. "Zip" I thought "Now that was rather fast". I,ll probably lay on my death bed thinking "Gee, that was fast, what was that all about. River | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 595 Registered: 9-2006 |
900 whups, can't count this morning!!!! | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 877 Registered: 8-2004 |
Yep. Makes good sense Olga! I don't fear death, but there are lots of things that I take to God about it - I want to live a full life of witness for my Lord here on this earth, to reach specific professional and personal goals, to see my children grown and established firmly in Christ, to get to hold my grandchildren and watch them grow into mature men and women in Jesus someday, to see the fruits of my labors in God, . . . And yet, you know what? I'm not in control of my own life let alone that of my family and friends. If it is my time to go be with the Lord, He is quite capable of making it happen. And if it's not my time, the powers of hell cannot do anything about it. And He doesn't just have me firmly in hand, He has my precious children, my other family members, and friends firmly in his grasp as well. My prayer is that whether I live or die, it will be to my Savior's glory and not for the glory of the flesh or the enemy. "For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain." Joyfully, Mary | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 597 Registered: 9-2006 |
Amen to that Mary!! | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 485 Registered: 6-2006  |
Olga, Mary and River, I like this line from Woody Allen - "I'm not afraid to die. I just don't want to be there when it happens." I know exactly where I'm going when I die, but I'm still at the age where I'm just not ready to go yet! It's such a comfort though, when I go to funerals at my church and it's more of a joyful gathering than a depressing one. What a relief to know that a loved one you've lost is "home with the Lord". Along with that, when we have friends or relatives who pass away and we're not sure what has happened to them, the truth is that God has the situation under control. I'm looking forward to seeing who is there when I get there! Leigh Anne | ||
| Timmy Registered user Username: Timmy Post Number: 169 Registered: 8-2006  |
I would have to agree Leigh Anne, funerals are no where near as painful as they used to be. Also I no longer have fear of death, for some reason I did not want to be cremated before, now I don't care...I really can't explain that. I must admit... "git'n dead" still concerns me though (HA!) | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 486 Registered: 6-2006 |
I'm curious, as Adventists many of you have written about your fears of the Investigative Judgement, your fears of death (maybe those two are together)and of the Sunday Law. When I read that, I wonder, what hope is there for an Adventist? Where did your hope lie? Does the average Adventist even think about having hope? What did a verse like John 10:27-29 mean to you? ("My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[a]; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand." ) What would you think when you saw verses like that? Inquiring minds want to know! | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5546 Registered: 12-2003 |
Frankly, Leigh Anne, those texts were like background "noise" to me. As far as receiving eternal life and never perishing was concerned, that meant, to me, my future in heavenóif I made it. All texts regarding eternal life were FUTURE, not present. Where was my hope? As a child and teenager, I had little hope except that maybe God would see the (hopefully) upward direction of my efforts to be good, make up whatever I lacked with Jesus' goodness, and save me by and by when he came again. I remember thinking that the chances were good I wouldn't make it, and would try to do things to discipline myself against physical pain or discomfort so I could be partially prepared for the temporary burning of hell. I also remember thinking that if I didn't make it (probable), at least I'd burn up in a hurry because I really did try hard. I'd have a short go of hell compared to a murderer or Hitler. As a more evangelical Adventist, I began to have more hope that Jesus' dying might "do it" for me, but I still believed I had to stay loyal to the Sabbath, etc., in order to get there. I had a lot of cognitive dissonance over my Sabbath-keeping, my choices and decisions for a long time. Truly, Leigh Anne, my life was marked by anxiety, fear, and worry. Colleen | ||
| Jackob Registered user Username: Jackob Post Number: 448 Registered: 7-2005 |
Leigh Anne Like a good pharisee, my personal hope came from comparing myself with other adventists, and seeing myself in a better position than others, I hoped that I had a better chance to be saved. I was relatively sure of my future salvation based on a couple of observations. First, I was in a better position than non-christians, second, better than so-called protestants who were apostates, eating pork and keeping Sunday. An third, I was more faithful to God (in Law keeping) than the adventists I know, living a stricter life than them. I perceived hat my position before God is not OK, but because I was a part of the remnant church, the ark of salvation, God was in the business of saving this group of dedicated followers. The dominant idea in adventist thinkingis that God is so dedicated in saving the SDA church that He will never abandon it, like it happened with the Roman Catholic Church, for example, no matter how ad things will develop in the church. A group of people must be saved from within it, and if God will not save me, who I'm more dedicated to Him than other adventosts, who's going to be saved? If He will not save me, no adventist could be saved, at least not those who I knew. It was like the joke about two guys who, in a camp, see the grizzly bear coming from the woods running toward them and one of them starts to put his shoes. The other says to him "What are you doing? You cannot run faster than the bear!" "Yes, but I can run faster than you" Running faster than the rest of adventists was the way of keeping myself in the safety zone. Another hope was the theological belief that will be a "latter rain", which will prepare the harvest for the reaping. If in the present time of dry skies we do our best with what we have, the future will bring the heaven's blessings on those who are using the present means of grace and are faithful to the end. Something similar to the ideas of the early Brinsmead, that at the Investigative Judgment, believers will become perfect by a special action of the Holy Spirit in the pouring of the latter rain. The hope of perfection was not in striving to attain it in the present time because it's impossible, but to project this perfection in the future, when God's time of refreshing will come, at the present time we doing the best we can in keeping the faith as good as we can. This idea is I think one of the reasons why adventists are immune when their system of belief is tested. I have a friend who's definitely against perfectionism at the present time, but has put all his hopes in that "latter rain" which will bring the perfection required for living without a Mediator. In this way, no matter how bad looks the present situation, you always can evade the evidence and live in the future, feeling all right with God. Jackob | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 487 Registered: 6-2006 |
Jackob and Colleen, All I can picture are those Chinese acrobats trying to keep all the plates spinning on the sticks! This gives me insight to what my in-laws are facing. My MIL, who is a passionate woman, cries and cries every time she prays. She was actually raised Catholic until her late teens when she was sent to the Academy. She's almost on the fence, I think, as she always says "God is so good to us, and we don't deserve it", which I never hear from my FIL (who usually has his nose in a "red book"). I've been around them for 23 years and in all that time I haven't once heard a conversation about death, and I rarely hear them discuss the IJ, (except when they express their bewilderment when someone doesn't accept it.) Avoidance mode maybe? Jackob, loved the bear joke! Leigh Anne | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 598 Registered: 9-2006 |
Colleenís comment: I remember thinking that the chances were good I wouldn't make it, and would try to do things to discipline myself against physical pain or discomfort so I could be partially prepared for the temporary burning of hell. I also remember thinking that if I didn't make it (probable), at least I'd burn up in a hurry because I really did try hard. I'd have a short go of hell compared to a murderer or Hitler. ************************************************* That right there is one miserable existence, what you said about verses such as mentioned by Grace_Alone as being ìbackground noiseî is a fit description of my Adventist friends. When anything is read such as this it is like ìbackground noiseî to them and then when they come to one of their proof text, its different. I have noticed that many times. Recently as I read the book of Romans together with my Adventist companions, we came to Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the Law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the prophets. It is most unfortunate that this is just ìbackground noiseî to them, but I believe if I can remain faithful to pray for them as we read, there will be some spark that reaches their dull hearing. Their eyes are blinded and their hearing dulled to the Word by their ìreligionî. At times I really do get tired of dealing with them and then something like this is written and my heart goes out, is softened once again and my spirit pleads for the ones stuck in Adventism whether they be young or old and my strength and resolve is renewed. Thank you, those who write your remembrances, although it may be Painful at times, it is not near as painful as those who are still stuck in Adventism, although they probably do not consider it painful, all-be-it the pain is dulled by the Novocain of the Adventist belief system and not fully realized. A person can be raised up in an abusive environment and think that that is just the way life is, full of abuse, not knowing or having experienced anything different. An abused child can be around a happy family and still not know the possibility of happiness for their own self. Their thinking is dulled by the constant abuse. They are withdrawn from those around because they dare not think else they might invite even more abuse so they push it away and go back home to the abuse. It is the same with some children raised in abject poverty and abuse on top of that. Some never have much at all in later life, will spend money on absolute junk and castoffs simply because they cannot realize that if they saved that same money for more expensive items that it can be done because they cannot believe they too can have any of this worlds goods. They have been abused too long and may never overcome it, die in abject poverty simply because they do not have the ability to believe for something other than junk and castoffs for themselves. I think Adventism may be sort of like that for some, not all. If ones mind is crippled then he is crippled. Also the human spirit can be crippled in like manner. We have to try to visit the spirits that are imprisoned. That means we have to first find the prison in which they are held. I believe Jesus was speaking much deeper that a physical prison when he stated that he ìwas sick and in prison and ye visited me notî he told the disciples he was giving them the ìKeysî of the kingdom, what will we do with those ìKeysî that he gives us? They are for opening prison doors, not to tuck safely in our pockets and baggage, our ìKeysî need to be shiny and bright with use, not dull and cankered from disuse. I realize that not all hearts are softened to their plight, most people that know me, look at me like I got two heads, those that know me wonder about me at times, I am sure of this. I speak of the Adventist problem to very few, I have learned that it is best to keep it and to myself. my brothers in the church donít know what I am about accept my Pastor and I really donít think he understands it or has room in his own ministry to deal with it. One morning as I prayed and meditated but at the same time, all churned up about my church, the Lord spoke to me by the Holy Spirit and said ìYou are worried about what other people think and trying serve them. Worry about what I think, you are a man pleaser and you worry about pleasing menî well sir, I repented of that, did some deep reading and thought and made my decision, I am set to please God and not worry about what my church brothers think or know about it and I have had peace unequaled before in my 35 years of being acquainted with Jesus. They do not and cannot know the depths of Adventism as I know it nor can they care about it, it is between me and my Lord. It has been him that softened my heart of mercy toward them from day one. Gave me a heart of caring and a will to know and discern the depths of Adventism through the guidance of the Holy spirit although I am still learning and make no claims on expertise in the matter. Yes, Evangelicals need to be aware of what Adventism teaches but unless I am invited I will not speak of it before a congregation, realizing that we cannot force feed them no more than we can force feed Adventist so most of the work is left up to prayer on my part and whatever person to person ministry presents itself or that God brings about. One thing for sure it never gets dull around here. I write like this to you folks because I know that you do understand and have a heart of wisdom in these matters. Sometimes I leave off being serious but this morning I am serious as a sore tooth. Now Jacob there, is one serious feller, I will have to try to cure him of that! Good stuff you are writing there Jacob. In him River |
