| Author | Message | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 491 Registered: 6-2006  |
Hey Y'all! My Hunny and I were discussing wine and he brought up 1 Tim. 5:23. "23Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses." Now Husband says "the water was so bad, and that's why Paul told Tim to drink wine." So I asked "back it up, cause I don't see that anywhere in that section". We couldn't find it. It's miniscule, but is it safe to assume this is another Ellenism meant to take the focus off the wine? Coincidentally, this is the commentary found on Biblegateway.com - "But in the Ephesian church pure, as a description of Christian living, had various connotations. To the false teachers it meant asceticism, including abstinence from certain foods (4:3). Whatever benefits abstinence might have for the believer, the heretics had taken it to a sinful extreme. Not only is Timothy to distance himself from these false views, but he is, for the sake of his health, to demonstrate Christian freedom and drink wine instead of exclusively water (5:23)." Similarly, my husband told the kids that the serpent in Eden had wings, but when we looked it up in the bible, there was no such verse. Just curious as to what you think. ??? Leigh Anne (Message edited by grace_alone on March 19, 2007) | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 747 Registered: 7-2004  |
I don't know exactly what Ellen said about the wine in that verse, but I was always taught it was really grape juice, just like the wine at the Passover and Last Supper. And yes, we were taught that serpents originally had wings. I'm not sure where that comes from either, but it's an interpretation based on the curse was that the snake would have to crawl on its belly. So what did it do before it crawled on its belly? We used to have a rainbow boa constrictor snake, given to us by a non-SDA friend of the family. That particular type is the only one that has tiny little feet near the tail end. I saw them, and they aren't very useful but are just there. The friend who gave him to us said this proved snakes used to have feet and got around that way before the curse to only crawl on the ground. Who knows? | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5565 Registered: 12-2003  |
Like Raven, I don't know what specific analysis Ellen made re: that particular verse, but I do know that she was strongly anti-wine. I was also taught that Biblical wine was grape juice, and I've also heard that "bad water" excuse as well. Colleen | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 492 Registered: 6-2006 |
Thanks Raven and Colleen, My poor husband was frantically looking for something to back up his info, but just couldn't find it. This has happened several times before, so I end up chalking it up to EGW confusion. Could just be something that his parents told him. We really just need to study the Bible together! | ||
| Freeatlast Registered user Username: Freeatlast Post Number: 522 Registered: 5-2002 |
Here's the winged-serpent quote: "In order to accomplish his work unperceived, Satan chose to employ as his medium the serpent--a disguise well adapted for his purpose of deception. The serpent was then one of the wisest and most beautiful creatures on the earth. It had wings, and while flying through the air presented an appearance of dazzling brightness, having the color and brilliancy of burnished gold."--PP 53. {TA 52.3} | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5568 Registered: 12-2003 |
Ah, thank you, Freeatlast! I remember that quoteóbut I couldn't recall it last night and didn't remember where it was. I remember reading it and trying to imagine that flying serpent...shudder. Colleen | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 1735 Registered: 10-2004  |
And here is what EGW said about Timothy drinking wine:
Jeremy | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 493 Registered: 6-2006 |
Thanks Freeatlast and Jeremy. Those are good ones. There are just so many things wrong with those paragraphs! I still wonder where my husband got the "bad water" info. In fact, I don't know of any bad water passages anywhere. It never ceases to amaze me how much more Ellen knew than the Bible writers. She even knew things about God that he didn't know about himself! God: "Oh really? I prohibited real wine? I did not know that. Thanks for pointing that out Ellen. What would I do without you?!"  (Message edited by grace_alone on March 20, 2007) | ||
| Thomas1 Registered user Username: Thomas1 Post Number: 209 Registered: 4-2002  |
I always wonder at those who say that "wine" in the Bible means grape juice. How does one keep grape juice from fermenting, especially in a hot and dry envoirnment, without means of refrigeration? then there is the matter of the drink offerings that the Lord required. In Numbers 28, He gives a specific instruction as to what a "drink offering" is. 7 ëThen the drink offering with it shall be a fourth of a hin for each lamb, in the holy place you shall pour out a drink offering of STRONG DRINK to the Lord. (N.A.S.B. updated) (emphasis mine) Some versions refer to it as "Strong wine" and one as "beer". In any event, the meaning is clear. God ordered the Jews to use wine, the real kind, as a holy offering before Him. Sorry Ellen ... wrong again. Interesting! | ||
| Snowboardingmom Registered user Username: Snowboardingmom Post Number: 251 Registered: 11-2005 |
HA! Another "that's not in the Bible?" discovery. I thought everyone believed the serpent in the Garden had wings, and worse yet, I thought it was in the Bible...somewhere... Guess not!! | ||
| Benevento Registered user Username: Benevento Post Number: 139 Registered: 4-2005 |
Ah but EGW did recommend pregnant women to take a little wine. It is easy to find in the index, although a lot of people don't believe it. It is Counsels on diet and Foods I think--I got rid of all her books, so I am usually no help at all but I remember that one because whenever I mentioned it there were some people who became angry because she wouldn't say anything like that. And now that is the one time it is really warned against taking alcohol by the dept of Health or some such, a little confusion there!!Maybe it is in Ministry of Healing--but I think the C on Fds of course they are both compilations I think. It has been so long since I have looked at her books, maybe it has been edited out! Peggy | ||
| Benevento Registered user Username: Benevento Post Number: 140 Registered: 4-2005 |
I meant to say the one thing the Dept of Health warns about for pregnancy--in all the restaurant Peggy | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 612 Registered: 9-2006  |
I don't guess Ellen read the New Testament much, especially where Jesus turned the water into wine. The governor of the feast said that usually they trotted out good stuff first and then when the guest had well drunk they would trot out the bad stuff but in this case they had saved the best stuff for last not knowing that it was the wine that Jesus made by a miracle of turning the water into wine. Of course if you pointed that out they (Ellenites) would just come up with some other lame brained excuse. This part of the Bible gives every indication that it was wine that contained alcohol. Anybody with common sense knows when you get a little looped you can't tell the difference between the good stuff and the bad stuff or don't care (which ever). Now me, I am a tee totaler because of alcoholism so I am against drinking because alcohol produces alcoholics. However, that said, I would be an idiot to say that this was not wine as referred to in the Bible but grape juice, Jesus would not have turned water into wine if he forbid it's use. Some churches use wine for communion, some use grape juice. Wine every case in the Bible is fermented. | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 613 Registered: 9-2006 |
I think all "Ellenventist" ah, I mean Adventist, have made it a lifelong Goal to to turn the Bible into sour grapes. No wonder they are called Aventist, they are always inventing something to add to the Bible. Just raving, don't mind me. River (Message edited by river on March 20, 2007) | ||
| Timmy Registered user Username: Timmy Post Number: 172 Registered: 8-2006  |
HA! Now that's a classic. Where is Dirk Anderson? This needs to be on the home page over at www.ellenwhite.org (I believe there is at least 180 red books that were added by the ADDventist!) | ||
| Violet Registered user Username: Violet Post Number: 494 Registered: 2-2001 |
River I respect you right not to drink but I hope you are not telling others not to drink because they may become an alcholic. This is the same as me telling everyone not to eat brownies because they cause diabetics. |
