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Doug222
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Username: Doug222

Post Number: 528
Registered: 3-2001
Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 7:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I posted a review of the Clear Word on Amazon.com and have quite a bit of "feedback" from those who think it is the best thing since sliced bread. Today, an Adventist Pastor responded with some "interesting" comments:


quote:

As an SDA with a degree in Theology (and working as a pastor right now), I'm quite intrigued by the misunderstandings and myths being promoted by BOTH Adventists AND non-Adventists (and even by our own institutions).

I am frustrated that our publishing house seems to promote this book as a Bible, complete with children's versions, etc. A few "uninformed" Adventists have bought them thinking they are Bibles, and have even posted comments here defending the Clear Word as being "inspirational" etc, but apparently, what NEITHER side realizes is that the church HAS NO official Bible.

This book was produced independently and is not officially endorsed by our church.

So, let's not get into the business of trying to defend it.

However, I still don't see why Adventists cannot write their own amplified paraphrase if Eugene Peterson can write his Message Bible, or if there is the Amplified Bible. Is there a hypocritical double standard here, or is an amplified Bible that comes from a denominational slant not allowed while others are?




So, its not really a Bible and its not endorsed by the Church, but how come others can produce a Bible with a denominational slant (i.e. Eugene Peterson) but Adventists can't? Is this the closes to an admission we'll ever get?

Doug
Flyinglady
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Username: Flyinglady

Post Number: 3516
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Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 7:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

When the Clear Word is discussed on CARM, the Adventists react the same way.
A lot of them really approve of it.
Diana
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 5616
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 9:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Doesn't it get tiring? I really find the protestations that it's not "official" to be disingenuous. Of course it's not "official"óthe Adventist church knows better than to produce its own Bible (officially)! It was only "written" by the chairman of the religion dept of Southern Adventist University at the time, and it was printed (as opposed to "published") by the Reveiw and Herald Press. (That just means it was a privately funded print job, not a job R&H asked for and paid the writer for.)

Furthermore, it is sold in the official church book stores, and it's being produced, advertised, and sold in many different versions now. Frequently this Bible is used in church/Sabbath schools, and many Adventists use it because it's so much easier to understand than their "regular" Bibles.

The book is sold and promoted by the official church bookselleróbut no, it's not an "Adventist Bible", nor is it official, nor does the Adventist church HAVE its own Bible!

It's all semantics.

Colleen
Doug222
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Post Number: 529
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Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 11:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Now Colleen, you know its not a Bible. Why do you keep spreading that lie? Its just a devotional <rolling eyes>.

The same guy had this to say to one of the staunch supporters of the CW:


quote:

I'm an SDA too (working as a pastor right now). I just want to remind fellow SDA's that our church does NOT have an official Bible at all, therefore it is not necessary to defend the Clear Word as being inspirational or whatever.

In fact, by defending the Clear Word so adamantly, we further confuse non-Adventists into thinking that we believe it is "our" only Bible. We really do not need the Clear Word--we only need the Bible.

No church should re-write the Bible, not even Adventists (see the last chapter of Revelation). Therefore, let's just be clear that this is not a Bible, but an amplified paraphrase strictly for devotional purposes and not for serious Bible study. We should always use only the Bible for Bible study or for preaching.

I suggest that you re-write your review to avoid this confusion. Thanks!




Nothing like a little coaching about what to say and waht not to say. Sounds vaguely familiar huh?

Doug

(Message edited by doug222 on March 30, 2007)

(Message edited by doug222 on March 30, 2007)
Grace_alone
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Username: Grace_alone

Post Number: 508
Registered: 6-2006


Posted on Friday, March 30, 2007 - 6:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Doug, it sounds like that guy is on the fence.

Colleen, I think you should post what you just wrote on Amazon as a review - You worded it perfectly.

Leigh Anne
Haroldo
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Username: Haroldo

Post Number: 9
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Posted on Friday, March 30, 2007 - 7:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Underlying any good translation of the Bible are the original languages of the Scriptures, with their nuances of meaning, depth of meaning, simplicity of expression, even ambiguities. Any good translation into a modern language will to some degree reflect this "something more" underneath. When you read a good English, or Spanish, or other modern language translation, you should be able to pick up a Hebrew or Greek lexicon and perhaps with a little aid, such as the online texts that have these lexicons attached, and see that depth underneath. However, with paraphrased Bibles, you lose the link with the original languages, and you cannot find what is underneath. What is underneath is the paraphraser's own supposition of what the original said - and not the original itself. Of course the task of going underneath is not for everybody - salvation is not by Greek and Hebrew alone - (!), but when studying Adventist doctrine or any other heresy, there is a fundamental misunderstanding of the original somewhere, as in Daniel 8:14. One of the best in teasing out these problems with the original and Adventist doctrine was Adventism's own Raymond Cottrell. However my point is that any good translation should not stray far from the original in conveying clarity of meaning where it is clear, and ambiguity where it is ambiguious. The Clearest Word of God was seen at the cross in the person of our glorious Savior, Jesus Christ.
River
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Username: River

Post Number: 635
Registered: 9-2006


Posted on Friday, March 30, 2007 - 8:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

One of my Adventist friends wants to jump in with the Clear Word Bible frequently because he says it is much ìclearerî.
If itís not considered a Bible then what are Adventist calling it ìThe Clear Word Bibleî for? Sure they are treating it as a Bible and if they say they are not, they lie. Their non-promotion of it has promoted down through the Adventist ranks.
If these are not the Adventist that make up a cross section of Adventism, since they all are with different churches, what are they, Swiss cheese?

The Adventist does not want on a defensive position. I think the problem is that they are not put in the defensive position by more than a few.
I further think for the most part that the evangelical world in general have been bamboozled by them into thinking they are just another Christian denomination, and mostly due to the doublespeak Patria referred too. (Reference Patriaís video).

Further, I am of the opinion that the reason the Adventist cannot understand the Bible is a spiritual problem not a mental problem.
While it is true that a complete understand of the whole Bible is lacking for most, if one reads his Bible prayerfully to hear what God has to say he can understand enough to keep him on the right road, be it King James or what.

God can and does speak to our spirits through the Word, but only if one is spiritually connected to God through Jesus and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, if one is not, then that creates a problem and I am of the opinion that therein lies the problem, spiritual connection (or spiritual disconnect).

Example: My house has receptacles through out for power but if my appliances are not connected it doesnít do its work.

The word being spiritually discerned, thatís why they look around for something to better cater to their earthy mental status.

If there was the spiritual blending of the spirit and mind with the Spirit of God that I speak of, Adventism would crumble in a day and EGW and IJ would not stand a chance.

The human brain is awesome but the Spirit is even more awesome, and the word is awesome in that it can connect with our spirit, it can convict and lead a sinner to repentance and lead a Christian to live for Christ and if regularly partaken of, can renew our faith and hope day by day.

Now someone may jump in here and accuse of judging and lack of love for my Adventist friends, thatís o.k, have a hayday with it, but while your at it give me some other explanation, Iíve been looking for one going on five years now. Clue me in.

The Adventist that I know remind me of a bad plug-in that keeps trying to short to ground, just about the time I think he is going to ìgetter goinî in will come an Ellen-ism or something and the disconnect happens.
It reminds me of a loose plug in my wall, the vacuum motor keeps going on and off and I keep jerking on the cord.

The power is very well there but they keep trying to plug in with a bad plug and then try to convince the whole Christian world that they are plugged in and full operational.

While the Christian world is plugged in, their motors humming, the Adventist is making motor noises with his mouth, uuhmmmmmm.

I have no trouble connecting with folks on this forum even though most are in different denominations, I even connect with the Lutrans, Iíll fly Lutran Airlines any day of the week honey, get the coffee pot on and bring a salad and weíll land somewhere near Delute and kneel down and worship together but donít try to get me to kneel at the feet of Ellen G. White, eating rules and regsí worship day rules and regsí cause honey, it ainít gonna happen.

They (Adventist) sit around and whine about the failure of the former Adventist to ìUnderstandî like their brains leaked out on the way out the door or something.
Honey, itís not because their brains leaked out on the way out the door, itís because they got plugged into a power greater than their brain.

They got disconnected from Adventism, EGW, IJ and got plugged into Jesus and it lit them up and set them on fire. They quit making motor noises with their mouth because their real turbines kicked in and they donít need to sit around and go uummmmmmmmm.
That same quickening power causes Dianna to say ìGod is awesomeî.

I am telling you when the Holy Ghost plugs you in you wonít stand for a bunch of weak, knock kneed Adventist excuses and Ellenisms. Praise the Lamb of God, I better quit before I really get going!
River
River
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Username: River

Post Number: 636
Registered: 9-2006


Posted on Friday, March 30, 2007 - 8:21 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Furthermore Doug, that Adventist pastor needs to see if he can get his money back on that degree in theology, if he paid more that 50 cents, he got cheated.

River
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 5617
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Friday, March 30, 2007 - 1:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

River, you make me laugh!

Haroldo, great explanation of the differences between translations and paraphrases as well as the dangers of paraphrases. Thanks!

Colleen
Mwh
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Username: Mwh

Post Number: 552
Registered: 4-2006


Posted on Friday, March 30, 2007 - 2:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Nice post River, it sure is a spiritual thing.
Gmatt
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Username: Gmatt

Post Number: 30
Registered: 3-2005
Posted on Saturday, March 31, 2007 - 12:10 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

River,
Preach it Brother. You are so right and so funny at the same time!
Flyinglady
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Username: Flyinglady

Post Number: 3517
Registered: 3-2004


Posted on Saturday, March 31, 2007 - 6:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

River,
You have such a good way with words. You "hit the nail on the head" with your post above.
We formers did not lose our brains as we walked away from adventism. We plugged in to Jesus Christ. That is so apt. And you are so humorous. I sat here smiling as I read this yesterday and again this morning. Thank you God for separating each one of us from the SDA doctrine and plugging us in to you. It is an awesome experience because you are so AWESOME.
Diana

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