| Author | Message | ||
| Jecee61 Registered user Username: Jecee61 Post Number: 1 Registered: 3-2007 |
I was in the SDA church for over 20 years and have recently left because of a divorce. I joined the SDA church as a new bride to follow my husband and because I agreed with keeping the Sabbath. I always struggled with the "unique doctrines," specifically; Ellen White, the investigative judgement, and the remnant church idea. Since I left the church and have been reading information online, I see these are the very issues that are driving many people out of the church. I completely understand and believe that these issues are not Biblical and have no problem discarding them. The one area I still am trying to understand is keeping the Sabbath. I do still feel guilty about not worshipping on Sabbath. (I am attending a WONDEFUL Nazerene church). Can anyone offer any thoughts to me about that? | ||
| Brwall Registered user Username: Brwall Post Number: 1 Registered: 3-2007 |
I can totally relate to your guilty feelings. I was raised in the SDA church from infancy through young adulthood. The big sticking point is the Sabbath. It was pounded into us kids in church school and Sabbath School. The concept that it did not matter what day I worshiped on was a revelation for me. Getting to that point, I have found, is often an individual pathway. You have begun down that road. Attending, and enjoying, a "Sunday" church is a major step. I pray that God would continue to touch your heart and lead you to peace. The day will come when you feel you worship where and when because you want to not because you have to. That is the system of implanted guilt the SDA church was so good at. I always felt I was doing things because I had to, and if I did not, then came the guilt. Don't look at your own actions, keep on your journey toward God and the peace he offers. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3520 Registered: 3-2004  |
Welcome to FAF Jecee61 and Brwall. You are in the right place to vent and talk about how you were affected by the adventist church. Jecee, Chris is writing about the covenants on one of the threads. Read it. Briefly the old covenant was made with the Children of Israel at Mt Sinai. Deut 5:2,3 "The Lord our God made a covenant with us at Horeb.It was not with our fathers that the Lord made this covenant, but with us, with all of us who are alive here today." Here the Bible is telling us that the covenant with the 10 commandments were made with the Children of Israel. It was not with any one else. Read all of Hebrews 8. It is all about the NEW covenant. V 10 reads..This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. No longer will a man teach his neighbor or a man this brother, saying, know the Lord, because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest. For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more. By calling this covenant new, he has made the first one obolete, and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear." John 15:9-17 talks about God's commands and that is that we love God as he loves us and love each other. Again from John 16:7-9, "But I tell you the truth: it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. When he comes he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment; In regard to sin, because men do not believe in me; in regard to righteousnes, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; and in regard to judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned. V13-15 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you. v. 15 All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you. In reading the NT, you will find that all other commandments are mentioned. The Sabbath is not. This is what convinced me that the 10 C were not applicable to born again Christians. Another thing that convinced me was reading the book of John. A dear Baptist friend told me to read John first, then the other gospels, then the rest of the Bible. I have been out of the SDA church 3 years now and I am still learning. There are others here who can explain this so much better than I can. Jecee, the guilt you feel is not of God. There is a phrase I learned long ago and that is feelings are not facts. How you feel is because of from where you came. Study the covenants. God brought you folks here. He is so awesome. Diana | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 1745 Registered: 10-2004  |
Jecee61 and Brwall, welcome to the forum! Jecee61, here is the link to the Covenants study that Chris is doing, that Diana mentioned: http://rtinker.powweb.com/discus/messages/11/5344.html?1175399491 It should be very helpful with regard to the Sabbath issue. Jeremy (Message edited by Jeremy on April 01, 2007) | ||
| Brwall Registered user Username: Brwall Post Number: 2 Registered: 3-2007 |
Thank you all for the welcome! I have enjoyed reading the posts and look forward to meeting everyone here online! Pastor Clay Peck has a wonderful series on the New Covenants as well on his church website. Please visit it here. http://www.graceplace.org/default.aspx?pid=58 | ||
| Jecee61 Registered user Username: Jecee61 Post Number: 2 Registered: 3-2007 |
Diana and Brwall: Thank you for your words of kindness. This is my first time in the Forum and I like what I am reading. I don't feel so alone. I do have questions about the covenant. I have read what is being posted about this issue. I became a born again Christian in 1976, At this time I did learn about the Covenants and the difference between the Old, keeping the law, vs. the New, God writing His law in our hearts. I understood that keeping the commandments of God were not a way to salvation, but only a natural extension of our love for God and for our fellow man. It was with great trepidation that I joined the SDA church(to be with my new husband) in 1983 because I feared that they were keeping the commandments to obtain salvation. I KNEW I was saved by grace alone and NOTHING I did would make me worthy. And after all, if salvation depended on my being good, why did Jesus have to die at all? Some Adventists seemed to agree with my position...keeping the Sabbath for the same reason I keep any of the commandments, to show I love God, and others seemed sure that if we did not keep the Sabbath we would be lost. I saw many church members struggle with assurance of salvation and I tried again and again to share scripture that pointed to that assurance. The longer I was in the church, the more "evangelical" the sermons became. I was relieved to hear that they were backing off some of the "unique" doctrines. I never believed in that extreme teaching anyway. However, when I went through my divorce, I stopped going to church. It was a small, local church my ex still attended there. After drifting around for a few years, attending nowhere in particular, I felt convicted to again attend worship services. I never felt that I lost my salvation, I just wasn't as close to God and other believers as I should have been. When I found a new church that I loved, I happily shared my news with the few SDA friends that I had left. I was met with such strong opposition and condemnation that it stunned me. I thought they would be HAPPY that I was in church. Apparently not, because it wasn't a SDA church. It was then I realized, that although it isn't discussed openly as much anymore, most SDA's if not all, believe you ARE lost if you are not worshipping on Sabbath. I never bought that doctrine that the Sabbath was the seal of God. I KNEW that the seal was the Holy Spirit. I never bought the whole remnant church idea either, I had been in too many churches over the years to think they were all Babylon. But to have my GOOD friends think that I was lost now really hurt me, but it opened my eyes as well. I understand the idea of old and new covenant. I still wonder though, why we wouldn't keep the Sabbath, just as I would honor my parents, and not steal, kill, etc. I don't believe the Sabbath "seals" my salvation, nor do any of the commandments. That comes only from the Blood of Jesus. I just want to show God that I love Him above all others and want to serve Him as He asks. In my devotions this week I read Mark 12 where when asked what is the greatest commandment, Jesus replies, "Love the Lord your God with all of your heart, and love your neighbor as yourself." THAT is what I believe. I, too, am still learning. I have been a believer for more than 30 years and sometimes, I still feel like a brand new child. God is good. How patient He is with our wanderings..... Carol | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3522 Registered: 3-2004 |
We do not condemn you if you wordhip on Saturday. You already know that it is not God's seal. I have put you on my prayer list. God bless you as you learn, as I am still learning. Diana | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 245 Registered: 7-2005  |
Welcome, Jecee61 and Brwall. It does my heart so much good whenever I see new forum participants. You're very welcome here. To answer your question about the Sabbath, I would refer you to Romans 14:5-6a, which says, "One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth [it] unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard [it]." After reading those words, I just can't tell another person they must observe the seventh-day Sabbath. And yet, when I read 1 Corinthians 8, I see that I must be very careful not to be a stumblingblock to the person whose conscience would be hurt by NOT observing the Sabbath. 1 Cor 8:9 says, "But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak." 1 Cor 8:12 says, "But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ." I just read this last verse the other day and it hit me right between the eyes. I know Paul is speaking of eating food offered to idols, but he uses the same language in both Romans 14 and 1 Corinthians 8 to refer to how we should treat each other when we disagree on issues like food laws and Sabbath laws. So I believe the concept applies with both issues. I'm happily married to a very devoted SDA husband, who really is a very wonderful person. In order to obey 1 Cor 8:13, which says, "Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend," I still follow my husband's pattern of Sabbath observance, even though I know it is not required of me or anyone else to maintain our salvation. (Actually, I no longer attend SDA church on Saturdays with my husband, but I do rest all day, instead of working. I attend a wonderful Presbyterian church on Sundays.) Please consider Col 2:16-17 which says, "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body [is] of Christ." According to Colossians 2:16-17, I have freedom to observe or not observe the seventh-day Sabbath, but according to 1 Cor 8:13, I do NOT have freedom to be a stumblingblock to a brother or sister in Christ. I was greatly blessed by reading Dale Ratzlaff's book, "Sabbath in Christ." Just reading the first few pages really made a lot clear to me about Sabbath observance. I devoured the rest of the book, too, comparing it with my Bible as I studied each chapter. It was well worth the effort, as I have a much clearer view of what Scripture really teaches about this topic. You can order the book here: http://www.ratzlaf.com/lam_book.htm. I hope my words have helped you. Honestwitness (Message edited by honestwitness on April 01, 2007) | ||
| Jecee61 Registered user Username: Jecee61 Post Number: 3 Registered: 3-2007 |
Thank you Honest. That reply does help me. I also looked at the dale ratzlaf website and ordered the book on the Sabbath. That is the issue that compelled me to join the SDA church even when I had great doubts about the other doctrines. When I was a member, I did enjoy the Sabbath rest, and did not find it a burden. Since I have stopped attending, I have not observed the Sabbath and just wasn't sure what to think about that issue. Now that I am happily attending a Sunday church and enjoying getting fed from the Bible weekly I just wasn't sure what was right! I will keep looking and searching! Thanks for the encouragement! Carol | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5624 Registered: 12-2003  |
Dear Carol and Brwall, welcome to the forum! We're delighted that you're here! Carol, I heartily second the recommendation of Dale Ratzlaff's book Sabbath in Christ. His book addressed all the questions I had about the Sabbath that I had learned so carefully as an Adventist. The text Honestwitness recommendedóColossians 2:16-17óis very helpful. The thing about the new covenant that I never understood before trying to come to terms with my Adventism is that the ENTIRE Bible points to Jesus. Even the Sabbath, which was given to Israel in the Sinai desert, was a shadow of Jesus. That's why the author of Hebrews says that Israel never entered their restóso God has given us another day called TODAY (Hebrews 4) when we experience His rest. When Jesus told the Pharisees in Matthew 12, after the Pharisees complained about Jesus' disciples plucking grain on the Sabbath, that One greater than the temple was among them, He was saying an amazing thing. The temple was the center and the symbol of Jewish life, culture, and religion. The temple housed the shadows of God: the showbread foreshadowing the Bread of Life, the lampstand signifying the presence and life of the Holy Spirit, the incense and smoke representing the prayers of the people, the law, and the very physical presence of God in the shekinah glory. By saying He was greater than the temple, Jesus made what was, to the Jews, a blasphemous statement. He was saying that He was GREATER than the temple. In Him was the bread of life; in Him was the presence and life of God's Spirit; in Him was the very reality of God; in HIM was the lawóincluding the Sabbath. By saying He was greater than the temple He was saying, in essence, that all the symbols and signs Israel had that pointed toward the Messiah, were realized and contained in Him. Even the law and the Sabbath were realized and contained in Him. Now, on this side of the cross, we have Jesus Himself giving us His life in the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit. We have, literally, the Living Law living in us. We have Sabbath rest in us always, because we are permanently reunited with God after humanity's fatal death in the Garden of Eden. The endless Sabbath of Eden (which God did not command Adam and Eve to keep, BTW), was brokenóbut Jesus restores it to us by destroying the claim of sin upon all who place their faith in Him. He Himself is and guarantees our eternal Sabbath rest. Our salvation and righteousness are complete! Another book that is really good is Greg Taylor's book, "Discovering the New Covenant". Also, if you've had any background in Adventism (which you have, of course!), it is very helpful to read Dale's book "The Cultic Doctrine of Seventh-day Adventists". These books are also both available at www.LifeAssuranceMinistries.com. Chris's study which Jereny linked is excellent. You also might want to read a couple of articles from past Proclamations. One is by Dale Ratzlaff, "The Continental Divide of Biblical Interpretation". It is availalbe here: http://rtinker.powweb.com/Proclamation2005_MayJun.pdf The other is by McGregor Wright and is entitled, "The Unity of the Law: What Was Nailed to the Cross?" It is available here: http://rtinker.powweb.com/Proclamation2005_JulAug.pdf The most important thing to remember is this: you WILL be assailed with doubts and guilt. It is part of leaving Adventism. Remember, as Diana mentioned, that the doubts and guilt do not come from God. When we are in Him and born from above, God gives us strong conviction of things we must change or do in our lives, but He does not motivate us with guilt. Our guilt was settled at the cross. Perfect love casts out fear. When the doubts and fears come, it will be important to remember to do two things: pray for God to guard your heart and mind and to keep you planted in reality. Ask Him to teach you truth and to protect you from deception. Also, go back to the Bible. Read Galatians, the promises in Romans 8 and the book of John. Stay grounded in Scripture. God is faithful. He completes what He begins, and He will guide you and teach you. He will not trick you. You can completely trust Him to teach you the truth from His word by His Spirit. So glad you're here, Carol! Colleen | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 512 Registered: 6-2006  |
Welcome Carol and Brwall! You're among friends. I'd like to add, if you haven't visited this site, there are some great audio studies and sermons at http://www.exadventist.com/Home/Audio/tabid/57/Default.aspx#FORMER The "Gospel and the Covenants" is one of my favorites from Pastor Martin. Now come out into the main forum and visit for a while!  Leigh Anne | ||
| Brwall Registered user Username: Brwall Post Number: 3 Registered: 3-2007 |
Again, thank you all for the welcome! See you in the main forum! Barry |
