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| Tkmommy Registered user Username: Tkmommy Post Number: 35 Registered: 1-2007 |
I've always wondered this as an sda. My husband especially has always harbored a disdain towards Easter. I had always assumed it was a problem with the pagan/easter bunny mix in but as it turns out it's actually the other way around. He would rather have the kids celebrate the easter bunny than the resurrection. Part in due that he believes man thought he could "change the sabbath" and worship on sunday with the excuse that they were honoring the resurrection. Meaning, however honorable they think they are being, they are disobeying God's commands (the sabbath). This is typical sda-think I've never understood! Once again we discussed this (when I told him yesterday I wanted to celebrate Easter more religiously) and he made an interesting statement....he said that jesus never says to honor His death or resurrection...He only commands communion to "do in remembrance of Me"...so he sees the celebration of the resurrection a man-made holiday. I wasn't sure where to go with this. I did point out taht according to scripture WORSHIPPING on sabbath is man made...when it was given in Sinai sabbath was a matter of "ceasing" and not even leaving the house. The worshipping/synagogue came later. So when is it acceptable for man to say "I wish to honor and celebrate God this way, even thought the bible doesn't command me to?" I would think it OK, but I can't get my mind around his saturated sda thinking. Any thoughts? BTW, if Jesus commands us to do communion to remember HIm, how come in sda churches it's not every sabbath? Some men got together and decided every 13th sabbath would be more appropriate...hmmmm, who is putting man made laws into effect there? Just a random thought. | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 1747 Registered: 10-2004  |
Tami, I can't even understand that type of thinking anymore. Hehe. COMMAND?! COMMAND to celebrate Jesus' Resurrection?! Why would His followers need a COMMAND to celebrate His Resurrection--the most wonderful event in history?! How could they NOT celebrate?!  By the way, Psalms does talk about celebrating the Resurrection of Jesus:
God has never condemned voluntary worship or observances of what He has done. In fact, to think that God would EVER be against His people worshipping Him makes no sense. We are supposed to worship Him at all times! Hanukkah is a "man-made" holiday, which celebrates the REAL fulfillment of Daniel 8:14. And Jesus Himself celebrated this holiday, according to John 10. Jeremy | ||
| Mwh Registered user Username: Mwh Post Number: 555 Registered: 4-2006  |
Today I listened to a tape by Lorri MacGregor about the pagan roots of the Jehovah's Witnesses and one point was made that Christmas has sprung out of Hanukkah. Celebrating the light of the World, Jesus. http://66.70.167.149/audio/teaching/lorri_macgregor_pagan_roots.mp3 Quite interesting. In Jesus | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5629 Registered: 12-2003  |
Tami, I realized this last week very clearly that the reason Easter was a "non-event" at best and anathema at worst within Adventism is because in general (again, individuals may know!) they have absolutely no idea of the new birth. First, the idea of the new birth is merely theoretical because they don't understand that as natural humans, they have spirits that are born dead to God. They don't believe they HAVE spirits, so the fact of the Holy Spirit indwelling us and bringing our spirits to life with the resurrection life of Jesus means absolutely nothing. It's confusing and creates great discomfort when Christians talk about it. Second, (I'm now borrowing an explanation I just heard from a former SDA friend who just shared this insight with me), Adventists in general do not believe they are despearately bad in their natural state. Unless a person is desperate, hopelessóunless he realizes he is incurably wicked and that it's completely impossible for him/her to be saved, then he doesn't want a Savioróhe wants a Friend. Most Adventists (and others too, but I know Adventism!) do not beleieve they are hopeless and desperate. They believe that God will somehow honor them for being loyal to the Sabbath and for saying they love God. But noóas long as they believe God will somehow honor and save them because they are "good, moral people", they merely want Jesus as a Friend. Only when they're desperate do they finally realize they need a Savior. Third, (and again I'm borrowing this idea from another friend who shared this insight with me), saving faith includes the assurance of being saved. Adventists in general do not understand the reality and necessity and fact of the new birth. Theyóin generalódo not see themselves as debased and hopelessly condemned. They see themselves as somehow "special" to God. Thus they do not perceive their desperate need of a Savioróand they often speak of Jesus as their "friend". Finally, because their faith is in a Friend who will "wink" at their flaws and foibles, "forgiving" them because He is so "loving", they never understand their need to bow their knee to the Lord Jesus as their Sacrifice and Savior. Instead, they claim Him and His "grace", saying they love Him and serve Him, but they have no deep spirit-resurrecting, life-changing exchange with the Lord Jesus. They have no assurance of salvation because they have only related to Jesus as "friend", not as "Savior". They have not truly and deeply repented of their natural, intractable sin, and they have no assurance of salvation. Again, I am not saying no Adventists are saved. I know some areóand I know some whom I'm sure are among the saved. I am only saying that it is very hard for an Adventist (and for a great many other people as well) to actually rejoice over the resurrection because they have not experienced that resurrection power in their own lives. Easter is to them like a mother with a newborn is to a woman who has never been able to have a child but desprately wants one. Easter evokes resentment and jealousy and grief and anger and annoyanceóbecause the person who has not experienced the new birth has no intimate means of understanding what Christ-followers ar actually rejoicing about. Easter is amazing now because I KNOW Jesus has saved me from myself! I KNOW I was completely unsavable; I KNOW that without Him, I would spend eternity in hell. He has rescued me from hopelessness and given me His own eternal life. His resurrection has given me salvation!! Colleen | ||
| Tkmommy Registered user Username: Tkmommy Post Number: 36 Registered: 1-2007 |
Thanks for your replies. Colleen, thats just it. My husband does realize he needs a savior...the issue he is battling right now is whether he WANTS one, if that makes any sense. I realize thats a whole other issue, but one that is a result of hime being completely burnt-out, which *I* believe to stem from adventist theology. He feels he never experienced a "re-birth" or his behaviors/desires would have changed. I still think this whole resurrection thing stems from his disdain of Sunday. It as if, in his mind, satan has used the resurrection to distract believers from the "command" to keep the sabbath. The Great Controversy came up somewhere in the conversation if that says anything. Jeremy, I like the hannukah analogy! I hadn't made the connection...I'll have to bring that one up. | ||
| Jackob Registered user Username: Jackob Post Number: 461 Registered: 7-2005 |
Jeremy, thanks a lot about your post, it's my turn to share what I discovered when I read your post. I just confessed to another former adventist that I had some problems with being involved fully in the joy of the Easter, and I was asking myself, "Why I cannot rejoice as I wish in the resurrection event, and celebrate Easter, since I have no problem to worship on Sunday?" When I read what Jeremy said about Hannukah, it dawned on me that Jesus participated in a "man-made" holiday. Regarding worshiping on Sunday, the Bible speaks about Lord's day, and gives at least one example of worshiping on Sunday. Worshiping on Sunday has an apostolic origin, and it is alluded in the Bible, but for Easter, it looked entirely as a "man made" celebration. And what was my problem with this "man made" celebration? The adventist understanding of the following text is responsible for the confusion which was present in my head.
I felt like, celebrating Easter, was somehow associated with sanctioning a precept of men, strangely as it looks to me now. it was a worship in vain. Of course, in the context, it is easy to perceive that Jesus spoke against changing God's commands with commands made by men, which came in conflict with God's commands. Easter is not in conflict with the God's word. It dawned on me that I was educated as an adventist to look at the sabbath as a command from God, and I looked at any other religious holiday through the lens that, somehow Bible, or God, must sanction it, must give a clue, must sustain that holiday, otherwise, celebrating it, would be like the above examples, worshiping in vain. Actually, I'm a little embarrassed because I had these misconceptions in my head, after years of leaving the adventist shadow. Since adventists worship on sabbath BECAUSE God commands them, this is the reason for worshiping, and any other worship which God is not endorsing, is a false worship, following a tradition, which is close to blasphemy, in this thinking. I'm so happy I get over it, left it for good, hope that it will never appear again in my mind. So much distortion, I sometimes feel overwhelmed, but God is sovereign, He knows everything and He reveals Himself to us in such a wonderful way that our souls can always drink fresh water from His Word. jackob | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5632 Registered: 12-2003 |
Tami, Perhaps you could also point out to him that the Feast of Pentecost, which was fulfilled on the Day of Pentecost in Acts 2, was ALWAYS celebrated on the "day after the seventh Sabbath." Leviticus 23:15-21 gives the details for when and how to observe this feast day. Similarly, the Feast of Firstfruits, which was fulfilled by Jesus' resurrection, was also ALWAYS celebrated on the "day after the Sabbath" (Leviticus 23:9-14). Even in ancient Israel, the ceremonial feast days foreshadowing Jesus' resurrection and the birth of the church were ALWAYS celebrated on the day after the Sabbath. The Feast of Pentecost, also known as the Feast of Weeks, was even more than a special offering. Here's what Leviticus 23:21 says about it, "On that same day you are to proclaim a sacred assembly and do no regular work. This is to be a lasting ordinance for the generations to come, wherever you live." There was actually historic, ceremonial precedence for the early Christians to consider the fulfillment of the sacred day of Firstfruits and the Feast of Weeks (Pentecost, or harvest) as days on which to celebrate. The fulfillmentóJesusóis what they celebrated. They were not honoring a created day! Once Jesus had risen from the dead, the significance of days disappeared. Jesus Himself replaced and fulfilled the shadows of the days. Colleen | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5636 Registered: 12-2003 |
Jackob, I'm so happy that the "Easter problem" has resolved! Jesus' resurrection trumps all the OT commands to hold observances on special days. Jesus is the fulfillment of everything in the law, the prophets, and the Psalms! (Luke 24:44). Jeremy, your Hannuka example was really apt. Colleen | ||
| Godssonjp Registered user Username: Godssonjp Post Number: 22 Registered: 1-2007 |
A SDA friend of mine came over to my house Saturday after service and mentioned that the pastor didn't preach a "Easter" sermon. He didn't even mention Easter or the resurection in his sermon. The topic of his sermon the Saturday before Easter Sunday was tithing. Go figure... | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5655 Registered: 12-2003 |
Goddsonjp—that is so telling. Talk about plunging right back into the Old Covenant on the very day we celebrate the New Covenant! Amazing, in a really sad and frustrating way... Colleen | ||
| Brian3 Registered user Username: Brian3 Post Number: 94 Registered: 8-2005 |
That SDA sermon has nothing on the First Baptist Church were we live. A week or two leading up to Easter last year we were visiting and somehow the Paster worked into his story about the upcoming Passion of Christ that not tithing was a sin! No, we've not gone back. Brian | ||
| Doug222 Registered user Username: Doug222 Post Number: 531 Registered: 3-2001 |
That's it! I was having a conversation with a good friend just last night who is struggling with this concept. We were talking about how important it is to have a fresh "story." I was sharing how one of the things I so much appreciate about the church where I currently attend is hearing people's stories (especially at baptism). I shared that when I was in Adventism, people's stories usually revolved around "coming to a knowledge of the truth" (and we all know what that mean) or how God kept them from slipping on the ice. Anyway, he agreed with me. We talked about how we were often jealous when you did hear the occasional story about the person being raised from "skidrow" to "respectable status," feeling like we didn't have a real story since we had been raised in the church. He then said something curious. He said, "actually, we do have a story. Its about how God kept us from those things [the things associated with skidrow]." I tried to share with him that we are all born with dead spirits and that not only are we no different than that person on skidrow, but that we need to be able to specifically identify just how we are depraved (not just a general intellectual assent) in order to truly experience God's grace. I don't think he totally understood. He is kind of struggling with having one foot in Adventism and one foot out, so his confusion is understandable. Another good friend who has left still struggles with the whole concept of lordship. I think the root of this person's problem also revoles around not recognizing that she has a dead spirit, therefore all she sees is that she used to believe that she had to "measure up" to God's standard--and felt miserable because she couldn't. Now she sees that she is saved by grace, and the law is no longer an issue. What she fails to see is what she has been saved from, which is her dead spirit. Therefore, she unwittingly chooses to continue living a life that is essentially separated from God. I think this problem is more common than we know. Lest anyone think I am judging, I am just coming to a knowledge of this issue myself. i realize that when I left Adventism, I substituted one form of dogma for another. God is impressing on me now the realness of what He wants to do in me. Thanks for that insight Colleen. Doug | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5658 Registered: 12-2003 |
Wow, Doug, you said that so well: "Another good friend who has left still struggles with the whole concept of lordship. I think the root of this person's problem also revoles around not recognizing that she has a dead spirit, therefore all she sees is that she used to believe that she had to "measure up" to God's standard--and felt miserable because she couldn't. Now she sees that she is saved by grace, and the law is no longer an issue. What she fails to see is what she has been saved from, which is her dead spirit. Therefore, she unwittingly chooses to continue living a life that is essentially separated from God. I think this problem is more common than we know. "Lest anyone think I am judging, I am just coming to a knowledge of this issue myself. i realize that when I left Adventism, I substituted one form of dogma for another. God is impressing on me now the realness of what He wants to do in me. " I agree totally that not acknowledging one's own depravity is intimately connected with not acknowledging Jesus' lordship. We can't just step from believing we can dserve salvation to believing that "grace will take care of it." Grace—without an understanding of God's justice and wrath and our own innate deserving of wrath—is not true grace. There has to be some consequence for sin—and when we separate grace from God's wrath, we get a "free pass" from our sin. But true grace requires a great price—at the expense of someone who doesn't deserve to pay. What God has done is incomprehensible—and I am completely in His debt. My life is not my own. Colleen |
