Post Number: 1
|Posted on Monday, May 21, 2007 - 7:15 am: || |
Hi everyone. I am new to this forum. I will share my story with you:
I had been SDA for 15 years, I converted for my wife who was born into the SDA Church(3rd generation). I had been a Baha'i before I became an SDA(jumped from one cult to another-yuck)and being from a non-Christian background I was igonorant about the Bible(especially the New Testament) and the Gospel so I was easy prey.
Most of theose 15 years I had really believed in most of the SDA doctrines except for soul-sleep. I could never really accept the SDA doctrine on the state of the dead but all the other doctrines including the Sunday Laws and the Investigative Judgement I accepted lock, stock and barrel. I believed and read EGW and really tried to be a good Adventist.
I had no peace though. I lived in terror of the Sunday Laws, wondering if I would make it, how bad would the torture really be, would I survive prison, would my family be ok? would I be able to get them all to my parents in laws' rice farm in Sumatra in Indonesia where we could "ride it out" before the authorities caught us? Would I be able to be sinless enough to stand before God without Christ as a mediator? All these things would run through my mind on a almost daily basis. It got so silly that every time we would by a new car I would wonder if it would be paid off before the Sunday Laws came. I actually believed in 2000 that if Bush were elected President the Sunday Laws would come before he left the White House. I was raised a Liberal Democrat and I remained a staunch Democrat while an SDA even though most SDAs are Republican mainly out of fear of the Sunday Laws. It got so bad I would eventually just pray the God would let me die before the "time of trouble" came.
There was always internal discord though. I used to always wonder were other Christians as "bad" as the SDAs said. I knew a lot of "other" Christians and the seemed to have something I didn't. I was especially impressed with my brother's level of spirituality and wondered WHY couldn't SDA's be like this?
Things came to a head about a year ago. It started when my son confided in me that in his 7th grade Bible class at the SDA school, the teacher described to the class in GRAPHIC detail how they would be torured when the Sunday Laws came. I was INCENSED that they would spiritually abuse kids like that. One thing that torques me beyond anything else is abuse of any kind to children.
Then soon after that they had that awful Sabbath School quarterly on 1844 and the IJ. Suddenly my eyes were opened to the fact that the IJ just isn't Biblical and beyond that mathematically impossible. Think about all the people who were born and died before Oct. 22, 1844, all the deceased believers and then all the people who were born and died that day and all the days after up to now and continuing(yes I am the mathematically-inclined friend Dennis mentioned in another thread). And IF this doctrine WERE true, it would NEVER end and Christ would NEVER come again. But the Bible says he WILL we just don't know when. A-ha! I have just proved by contradiction that the IJ is FALSE. Not to mention the many scriptures it counterdicts.
I realised all the IJ was was a way for the embarrased Millerties to cover their butts rather than humble themselves by going back to their churches and repenting.
Fear of the Sunday Laws prompted me to do more research on that and I stumbled on to National Sunday Law on Brother Dirk Anderson's great EGW website. I soon realised the falsity of that too and more research led me to the conclusion that EGW was in NO WAY a prophet.
I was a Sabbath School teacher at the time and I was removed as a Sabbath School teacher and nearly disfellowshipped for speaking out against the IJ and in the next quarter on creation introducing my long/old earth creationist views.(apparantly to be an SDA you have to be a young earth creationist because EGW said so?)
Still I am bodily in the SDA church against my will even though my mind and soul checked out.
My wife is very SDA, she is Indonesian and the Indonesian SDAs tend to be VERY conservative, traditional, historic SDAs. We attend a predominantly Filipino SDA Church in the Los Angeles area which is very similar to the Indonesian Churches, very conservative and legalistic. My leaving or being disfellowshipped may be a HUGE scandal, In the Indonesian and Filipino SDA communities, I get the impression that leaving the SDA church is looked upon pretty harshly, but I am willing to bear the cross but I just don't want to cause my wife pain as I truly love her as Christ loves the Church.
Things ARE beginning to look up though. I have been attending a Seventh Day Baptist Church in Riverside CA whenever I get the chance and I LOVE it. They have the Gospel there and it's nice that I don't have to give up the Sabbath. Even though I understand the Sabbath is not necessary for Salvation, it is my preference. It's OK to worship on the Sabbath but it's also ok to worship on Sunday.
I just love it that the Seventh Day Baptists don't have EGW, the Sunday Laws or the IJ. There is a lot more freedom of belief in the Seventh Day Baptist than in the SDA. For any of you on this board who are looking for an SDA alternative and still want the Sabbath, I HEARTILY recommend the SDB Church and for those of you in SoCal there is a wonderful SDB Church in Riverside, CA with a Pastor who is an ex-SDA himself.
My wife was angry at first about my attending the SDB Church but Praise God, she seems to be accepting it now. I am looking forward to the day when she will allow me to be re-baptised an SDB. I am not going to force her to convert I just want to keep on loving her and showing her a better Christian walk.
Sorry this is a bit long winded.
Post Number: 538
|Posted on Monday, May 21, 2007 - 8:35 am: || |
Hi Reb! Wecome!! You're among friends. Thanks for sharing your story - I look forward to more of your posts.
Post Number: 5
|Posted on Monday, May 21, 2007 - 8:39 am: || |
Thank you and God Bless You.
Post Number: 928
|Posted on Monday, May 21, 2007 - 8:58 am: || |
You're among friends here. Some of us have had or are going through very similar things to what you describe. I'm so glad you have been able to find a church to attend that works for you and that your wife seems accepting of. Make yourself at home here on the forum!
Post Number: 769
|Posted on Monday, May 21, 2007 - 9:16 am: || |
I enjoyed your story and thank you for it, to repeat the welcome would just be repeating what Mary and Leigh Anne has said, I echo them.
Post Number: 6
|Posted on Monday, May 21, 2007 - 9:19 am: || |
It was quite a search for me to find a church that works for me and my wife would seem to accept. I tried a Messianic Jewish congregation(my wife didn't like their style of worship even though she agreed with their doctrine), I tried the Methodist Church(too Liberal even for my tastes plus I couldn't get it out of my mind that EGW started out as a Methodist), the Eastern Orthodox( I realised my wife would NEVER accept my attending this ditto as for the Methodist because it is a "Sunday" Church.
But I didn't give up and Praise God, I found what I feel will be a "home" in the Seventh Day Baptist Church.
Post Number: 7
|Posted on Monday, May 21, 2007 - 9:20 am: || |
Thanks also, River. It's good to be here.
Post Number: 128
|Posted on Monday, May 21, 2007 - 10:27 am: || |
Welcome, and thank you for sharing your story.
Post Number: 5859
|Posted on Monday, May 21, 2007 - 11:14 am: || |
Reb, welcome to the forum! We're glad to have you here!
Post Number: 13
|Posted on Monday, May 21, 2007 - 11:27 am: || |
Thanks, Toria and Colleen! God Bless.
Post Number: 814
|Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 4:33 am: || |
Welcome Reb, from Osaka in Japan!
Your brother in Jesus,
Post Number: 24
|Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 7:43 am: || |
Post Number: 3668
|Posted on Thursday, May 24, 2007 - 7:57 pm: || |
I just found the beginning of your story. Thank you for sharing it. I have welcomed you else where. Just want to say, I am glad you are here.
One year ago at the FAF reunion in Redlands I met Phillipino formers from Glendale somewhere. Write to Colleen and ask her about them. She can get you folks connected.
Post Number: 1807
|Posted on Thursday, May 24, 2007 - 8:35 pm: || |
Diana, were they from Glendale, California or Arizona? Or do you know? (Just thinking I might know them.)
Post Number: 3669
|Posted on Thursday, May 24, 2007 - 8:38 pm: || |
Jeremy, If I remember correctly they were from Glendale, California. I know it was not Arizona.
I think they have pictures in last years Proclamation about the first FAF reunion.
(Message edited by Flyinglady on May 24, 2007)
Post Number: 824
|Posted on Thursday, May 24, 2007 - 9:11 pm: || |
I believe there were two major Filipino SDA churches in the Glendale or Pasadena area (California). The larger one remained SDA, but a few years ago the smaller one left and became Christian. I remember when it was happening, but don't have the info handy.
Post Number: 69
|Posted on Friday, May 25, 2007 - 8:05 am: || |
The SDA church I attend against my will is in EL Monte it is mixed but predominantly Filipino. My wife likes it because it is very similar to the Indonesian SDA Churches(very conservative and legalistic). Does anyone know of any Indonesian former Adventists in Southern California, this might be helpful for my wife if there are.
I am starting to get through to her. I am not asking her to leave Adventism just to allow me to in peace. I made it clear I intend to convert to the Seventh Day Baptist Church and she didn't argue with me about it.
She does agree that EGW made mistakes she is just afraid of leaving for something "worse". (the remnant mentality).
Post Number: 3783
|Posted on Saturday, June 16, 2007 - 4:42 pm: || |
Reb, Contact Colleen about the Phillipino people who were at the first FAF reunion. I met them and they told me about their church leaving adventism. That is the one Agapetos/Ramone is talking about. Colleen can connect you with them. She can do anything!!!! I have confidence in you Colleen.
Post Number: 142
|Posted on Saturday, June 16, 2007 - 7:29 pm: || |
Thanks, Diana. Actually what would be helpful is if I could find any Indonesians who were SDA and left the Church(since my wife is Indonesian). But I don't even know if that would be helpful at this point as my wife is pretty much not going to even think about it and I have decided not to disturb her beliefs or argue with her and she is at least accepting what I am doing at this point.
As for the SDA church I still have to attend sometimes I have decided the best thing to do is just keep my mouth shut about what I am doing at this point. I love the people there but I don't like the legalism and traditonal SDA stuff. At least I don't have to attend there much and am going to SDB church more often. And I have met some former SDAs at the SDB Church I attend and it has been great!