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Mwh
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Username: Mwh

Post Number: 594
Registered: 4-2006


Posted on Wednesday, June 13, 2007 - 9:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear everybody,

I am writing an article on a girl who had quite a bad experience in the SDA church, some of the stuff which happened to her is what follows. I know that the real source of the problems most likely stems from SDA literature and EGW. If you can find some quotes on the following topics, it would help me greatly.

1. Shunning ("The church was a closed society, we could not have anything to do with others" and "one was shunned, if you broke with the church, because all you were allowed to be with was in the church")

2) Dress code of a dress ("I only wore a dress, because I could not were pants")

3) The sabbath ("I could also not participate in child birthdays, if they streched into the holiday/sabbath")

4) Cinema and theater ("I could not go to the cinema or the theater, wetter it was the sabbath or not")

5) Eating rules ("We could not eat animal fat")

6) Corporal punishment (beaten with brackets)

In the joy of Jesus,
Martin
Mwh
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Post Number: 603
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Posted on Friday, June 15, 2007 - 5:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jeremy, could you help me out please?

In His amazing grace,
Martin
Jeremy
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Post Number: 1874
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Posted on Friday, June 15, 2007 - 5:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Martin,

The following are some EGW quotes that I found.

Regarding #1, are the following quotes:


quote:

"May the Lord help us to appropriate the instruction that Christ gave his disciples just prior to his crucifixion. We are to build up one another in the most holy faith. A Christian can not mingle with worldlings as one of their number. Though living in the world, we are not to be of the world. He who acts as a worldling, while retaining his name on the church book, greatly
dishonors God." (Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, 07-19-1906, "Notes of Travel, No. 5," paragraph 9.)

"God calls for separation from the world. Will you obey? Will you come out from among them, and remain separate and distinct from them? 'For what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?' You cannot mingle with worldlings, and partake of their spirit, and follow their example, and be at the same time a child of God. [...]" (Testimonies for the Church, Volume Two, page 44, paragraph 1.)

"As a people we are to stand under the banner of Jesus Christ. We are to consecrate ourselves to God as a distinct, separate, and peculiar people. [...]
"They are to carry the burden of a special work, a special message. We have a personal responsibility, and this is to be revealed before the heavenly universe, before angels, and before men. God does not call upon us to enlarge our influence by mingling with society, by linking up with men on political questions, but by standing as individual parts of His great whole, with Christ as our head. [...]
"But in the places which have been given the greatest light, where the gospel has been preached the most, the people -- fathers, mothers, and children -- have been moved by a power from beneath to unite their interests with worldly projects and enterprises. [...]
"The condition of being received into the Lord's family is coming out from the world, separating from all its contaminating influences. [...]
"The Lord speaks of those who claim to believe the truth for this time, yet see nothing inconsistent in their taking part in politics, mingling with the contending elements of these last days, as the circumcised who mingle with the uncircumcised, and He declares that He will destroy both classes together without distinction. [...]
"The question may be asked, Are we to have no union whatever with the world? The word of the Lord is to be our guide. Any connection with infidels and unbelievers which would identify us with them is forbidden by the word. We are to come out from them and be separate. In no case are we to link ourselves with them in their plans or work. But we are not to live reclusive lives. We are to do worldlings all the good we possibly can. Christ has given us an example of this. When invited to eat with publicans and sinners, He did not refuse; for in no other way than by mingling with them could He reach this class. But on every occasion He gave them talents of words and influence. He opened up themes of conversation which brought things of eternal interest to their minds." (Fundamentals of Christian Education, pages 478-482.)

"Large sanitariums place in close association a great number of believers and unbelievers. The Lord is calling for separation from the world, but large institutions call for the mingling of our youth with worldlings. This association brings great temptation to the youth. The work of soul-saving that could be done were fewer unbelievers gathered together in one place, is greatly retarded." (Testimonies for the Church Containing Letters to Physicians and Ministers
Instruction to Seventh-day Adventists
, page 23, paragraph 3.)

"[...] Parents need to awake, and purify their souls by practicing the truth in their home life. When we reach the standard that the Lord would have us reach, worldlings will regard Seventh-day Adventists as odd, singular, strait-laced extremists. 'We are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men.'" (Fundamentals of Christian Education, page 289, paragraph 1.)

"Parents make a mistake in rushing their children into society at an early age, fearing that they will not know anything unless they attend parties and mingle with those who are lovers of pleasure. Even while they are at school, they allow their children to attend parties and mingle in society. This is a great mistake. In this way children learn evil much faster than they do the sciences, and their minds are filled with useless things, while their passion for amusement is developed to such an extent that it is impossible for them to obtain a knowledge of even the common branches of education. [...]" (The Adventist Home, page 523, paragraph 4.)




Here are a couple of quotes on #2 regarding dress:


quote:

"There is an increasing tendency to have women in their dress and appearance as near like the other sex as possible, and to fashion their dress very much like that of men, but God pronounces it abomination. [...]" (Testimonies for the Church, Volume One, page 421, paragraph 3.)

"There is still another style of dress which is adopted by a class of so-called dress reformers. They imitate the opposite sex as nearly as possible. They wear the cap, pants, vest, coat, and boots, the last of which is the most sensible part of the costume. Those who adopt and advocate this style of dress carry the so-called dress reform to very objectionable lengths. Confusion will be the result. Some who adopt this costume may be correct in their general views upon the health question, but they would be instrumental in accomplishing vastly more good if they did not carry the matter of dress to such extremes.

"In this style of dress God's order has been reversed and His special directions disregarded. Deuteronomy 22:5: 'The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the Lord thy God.' God would not have His people adopt this style of dress. It is not modest apparel, and is not at all fitting for modest, humble women who profess to be Christ's followers. God's prohibitions are lightly regarded by all who advocate doing away with the distinction of dress between males and females. The extreme position taken by some dress reformers upon this subject cripples their influence." (Testimonies for the Church, Volume One, page 459, paragraphs 7-8.)




Here are a few quotes regarding #3, birthdays/sabbath:


quote:

"[...] I was not where any parade could be made over my birthday and I am glad I was not. I think but little of these extra entertainments to celebrate birthdays." (Manuscript Releases, Volume Four, page 40, paragraph 2.)

"[...] I will not sanction feasts made to celebrate birthday or marriage anniversaries, but will bend all my energies to lift up Jesus among
the people. I will seek to impress upon the minds of my brethren and sisters the great necessity of preparation of heart, by confession and humiliation, to be accepted of God and acknowledged as his dear children. My heart has ached as I have seen men honored, while Jesus was neglected and almost forgotten,--liberal gifts for earthly friends, but poor and meager offerings for him to whom we owe our all." (The Signs of the Times, 01-04-1883, "The Old Year and the New," paragraph 8.)

"On Friday let the preparation for the Sabbath be completed. See that all the clothing is in readiness, and that all the cooking is done. Let the boots be blacked, and the baths be taken. It is possible to do this. If you make it a rule, you can do it. The Sabbath is not to be given to the repairing of garments, to the cooking of food, to pleasure seeking, or to any other worldly employment. Before the setting of the sun, let all secular work be laid aside, and all secular papers be put out of sight. Parents, explain your work and its purpose to your children, and let them share in your preparation to keep the Sabbath according to the commandment." (Child Guidance, page 528, paragraph 2.)




Here are a couple of quotes regarding #4, the theater:


quote:

"The true Christian will not desire to enter any place of amusement or engage in any diversion upon which he cannot ask the blessing of God. He will not be found at the theater, the billiard hall, or the bowling saloon. He will not unite with the gay waltzers or indulge in any other bewitching pleasure that will banish Christ from the mind.

"To those who plead for these diversions we answer, We cannot indulge in them in the name of Jesus of Nazareth. The blessing of God would not be invoked upon the hour spent at the theater or in the dance. No Christian would wish to meet death in such a place. No one would wish to be found there when Christ shall come." (The Adventist Home, page 515 paragraph 4-page 516 paragraph 1.)

"Among the most dangerous resorts for pleasure is the theater. Instead of being a school for morality and virtue, as is so often claimed, it is the very hotbed of immorality. Vicious habits and sinful propensities are strengthened and confirmed by these entertainments. Low songs, lewd gestures, expressions, and attitudes deprave the imagination and debase the morals. Every youth who habitually attends such exhibitions will be corrupted in principle. There is no influence in our land more powerful to poison the imagination, to destroy religious impressions, and to blunt the relish for the tranquil pleasures and sober realities of life than theatrical amusements. The love for these scenes increases with every indulgence as the desire for intoxicating drink strengthens with its use. The only safe course is to shun the theater, the circus, and every other questionable place of amusement." (The Adventist Home, page 516, paragraph 2.)




Here are a couple of quotes regarding #5, animal fat:


quote:

"The meat is served reeking with fat, because it suits the perverted taste. Both the blood and the fat of animals are consumed as a luxury. But the Lord gave special directions that these should not be eaten. [...]" (Counsels on Diet and Foods, page 393, paragraph 4.)

"When properly prepared, olives, like nuts, supply the place of butter and flesh meats. The oil, as eaten in the olive, is far preferable to animal oil or fat. It serves as a laxative. Its use
will be found beneficial to consumptives, and it is healing to an inflamed, irritated stomach." (The Ministry of Healing, page 298, paragraph 2.)




And here are a few things EGW had to say about corporal punishment:


quote:

"I have frequently seen children who were denied something that they wanted throw themselves upon the floor in a pet, kicking and screaming, while the injudicious mother alternately coaxed and scolded in the hope of restoring her child to good nature. This treatment only fosters the child's passion. The next time it goes over the same ground with increased willfulness, confident of gaining the day as before. Thus the rod is spared and the child is spoiled.
"The mother should not allow her child to gain an advantage over her in a single instance. And, in order to maintain this authority, it is not necessary to resort to harsh measures; a firm, steady hand and a kindness which convinces the child of your love will accomplish the purpose." (Child Guidance, page 283, paragraph 3.)

"Many parents will have to render an awful account at last for their neglect of their children. They have fostered and cherished their evil tempers by bending to their wishes and will, when the wishes and will of the children should bend to them. They have brought God's frown upon them and their children by these things. Parents, have you forgotten that which was written in the holy word: "He that spareth the rod hateth his son"? Children are left to <SI come up <EI instead of being <SI trained up <EI. The poor little children are thought not to know or understand a correction at ten or twelve months old, and they begin to show stubbornness very young. Parents suffer them to indulge in evil tempers and passions without subduing or correcting them, and by so doing they cherish and nourish these evil passions until they grow with their growth and strengthen with their strength." (Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, 03-28-1893, "Duty of Parents to Their Children," paragraph 2.)

"[...] And I adopted child after child, and I brought some of them up to womanhood and manhood, and God has helped me in the work. When I could gain a victory (when children laid down the stubbornness of their natural tempers) not by beating them, I tried a better plan--to gain their confidence--and then I could do anything with them; and God has helped me in the work. No soul that I have taken in to train and educate has made me regret it." (Sermons and Talks, Volume One, page 269, paragraph 2.)




Jeremy

(Message edited by Jeremy on June 15, 2007)
Jeremy
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Username: Jeremy

Post Number: 1875
Registered: 10-2004


Posted on Friday, June 15, 2007 - 6:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

By the way, Martin, regarding the first topic, in Adventism/EGW "the world" and "unbelievers" includes the "Sunday-keeping" Christians.

Jeremy
Jeremy
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Username: Jeremy

Post Number: 1876
Registered: 10-2004


Posted on Friday, June 15, 2007 - 6:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I thought that this one was one of the most incredible quotes:


quote:

"Large sanitariums place in close association a great number of believers and unbelievers. The Lord is calling for separation from the world, but large institutions call for the mingling of our youth with worldlings. This association brings great temptation to the youth. The work of soul-saving that could be done were fewer unbelievers gathered together in one place, is greatly retarded." (Testimonies for the Church Containing Letters to Physicians and Ministers
Instruction to Seventh-day Adventists
, page 23, paragraph 3.)




She says, "we could save a lot of souls, if only there weren't so many unbelievers gathered together!"

WHAT?!?!?!

Does anyone have a clue what she's talking about???

I don't think Billy Graham has ever said anything like that!!!

Haha!

Jeremy
Helovesme2
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Post Number: 955
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Posted on Friday, June 15, 2007 - 8:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Perhaps greater numbers of 'outsiders' would dilute the 'influences' used to bring people in?
Mwh
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Username: Mwh

Post Number: 607
Registered: 4-2006


Posted on Saturday, June 16, 2007 - 10:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jeremy, thank you very much.

May the Lord, Jesus Christ bless!

Martin

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