| Author | Message | ||
| Jim02 Registered user Username: Jim02 Post Number: 54 Registered: 5-2007 |
It seems to me that a great portion of religon is all about the individual simply trying to comprehend the scriptures. Then we go about , comparing notes and seeking accomplices (so to speak-said in jest) to second our opinions and theorys. But in the end, it is a construct. A human tendancy to organize and lable everything. I think this is why so many people get lost in the confusion. What is my failsafe? Simplicity I will hold onto what is plain to my understanding and leave the rest in God's hands. Pain tells me when something is wrong. I have felt pain in the SDA practice to be sure. But honestly folks , I feel pain here too. Perhaps it is pain from the wounds I brought with me. Perhaps it is a necessary pain. But the pain of confusion and mind blowing redifining of everything is just too much. I cannot explain or defend this sentiment. That too, is yet another mind trap. God is a God or order. I have to change my aproach. Take a break I guess. Sorry... | ||
| U2bsda Registered user Username: U2bsda Post Number: 496 Registered: 11-2004 |
I totally understand Jim. For at least 3-4 years after I left Adventism I just rested on the basics. It was too much for me to try and understand x, y, or z. I understood the basics and I needed to rest in that for awhile. Then gradually and slowly I began to learn and understand x,y, and z. It would have been too much for me to try and understand all the issues I had questions on right away. Now I am still learning and will always be learning. Never again will I come to the place where I will know with 100% accuracy that I have the correct doctrine. I will always leave the door open for God to show me and lead me into all truth. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6043 Registered: 12-2003  |
Jim, I totally understand. U2bsda has perfectly expressed the general shape of my experience as well. It is enough to rest in the basics of knowing Jesus and learning to trust Him with your life. As long as you stay immersed in His word, you will grow. What I found is that God grows us at the rate He knows we're ready to handle. He does not ask us to understand every new nuance at once. The more we understand Jesus and experience Him working in our lives as we submit our decisions and minds to Him, the more we will learn. As far as doctrines like hell go, they are the last things to "matter". It was at least two years after I left Adventism before I really began to look at the subject and study it from the Bible. By the time "hell" came into focus in my experience, my trust in the Bible had grown exponentially, and I was beginning to experience Jesus and the Father and the Spirit as truly sovereign over all things. I am convinced that God knows what we need to deal with at any specific time. He brings those issues before us in His time. Part of what we deal with as we process is simply the dynamics of our personal lives. As our knowledge of Jesus and the Father increases, we begin to see truths about our lives and relationships and practices in a new light. God deals with us in these areas as well, according to His timetable. He does not ask us to resolve all our questions at once. He walks us closer and closer to Himself as He directs us into truth and integrity in our own lives as we learn to trust Him as our Savior. I won't lie: truly, pretty much everything we thought we knew begins to look different as we come really to know God and trust His word. But the changes do not all happen at once. They don't have to--God is in control! AS U2bsda said, I now realize I will never know with 100% accuracy that I have exactly the "correct" doctrine. I don't have to have that. What I must have is trust in Jesus that drives my life. I must never stop praying that He will teach me the truth, and I must never stop immersing myself in the place where I will learn the truth: His word. As I seek Him, the doctrines begin to sort themselves out. It is a great relief to realize I don't have to understand them all and explain them fully. I will not be "tested" at the gates of Heaven on my doctrines. I will, however, be evaluated on whether or not Jesus KNOWS me. I will be rewarded (1 Cor 3) on whether or not I allowed Jesus to work through me, on whether or not I was submissive to His teaching and discipline and built works that last on the foundation of Jesus Christ. Focus on Jesus, Jim, and retreat to His word for comfort and insight. He will teach you in His time. Our greatest challenge is to be willing to be submissive to Him and to walk where He leads. Understanding and insight always follow obedience to Jesus and His revelations to us. If we wait for full understanding and insight, we will never obey Him. The key to growth and spiritual "sight" is obedience to Jesus. Colleen | ||
| Laurie Registered user Username: Laurie Post Number: 2 Registered: 6-2007 |
I have to tell myself every day.... I am not skilled to understand What God has willed, what God has planned, I only know at His right hand, Stands One Who is my savior. Laurie | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6047 Registered: 12-2003 |
Welcome, Laurie! Thank you for that verse. I love that song...and that is all I need to know! Colleen | ||
| Mwh Registered user Username: Mwh Post Number: 598 Registered: 4-2006  |
Hugs and a big welcome to you Laurie, Hope you will find lots of good conversations here and feel welcome. Jesus is awesome! Martin | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3765 Registered: 3-2004  |
Jim, I have only been out of adventism 3 years and I am finally understanding what Jesus Christ did for me. That is the core doctrine of Christianity. When I left adventism, I left behind the "having to have all the right answers". That is so freeing. God is growing my knowledge at the rate that is right for me. Keep close to God and read and study the Bible. Diana | ||
| Marysroses Registered user Username: Marysroses Post Number: 26 Registered: 4-2007 |
Hi Laurie! Welcome. Jim, I agree with Flyinglady, 'having to have all the right answers' was baggage from adventism, focusing on that led me away as some things are hard to understand and accept. God is Good, he brought me back and I'm still learning every day, but I no longer feel a need to define every detail. God bless you on your own journeys, both of you. MarysRoses | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 878 Registered: 10-2002  |
"It seems to me that a great portion of religion is all about the individual simply trying to comprehend the scriptures." Brother Jim, that is indeed the sum of religion. And it's why so many people in churches are hungry, unsatisfied, and crying out for something REAL -- to really know God. So many Christians have had too much of religion and too little of meeting God Himself. As you rest in Him, He'll let you know that He is real and He is living in you -- and He will be your Teacher, Counselor, and will guide you into the truth you need to know as you seek His face. Bless you in His Spirit, bro Ramone | ||
| Jonvil Registered user Username: Jonvil Post Number: 62 Registered: 4-2007 |
As I heard a pastor once say 'We don't need more religion, we need more Jesus' | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 866 Registered: 9-2006  |
The simplicity of trust is an important ingredient to our well being I would think, not only trusting in God as a child of God but also a modicum of trust in our fellow Christians, it would seem to me that if we do not have trust of those around us (brothers and sisters in Christ) then we do not have much grounds for the fellowship that comes from this admonition Hebrews 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. I would think that there is another ingredient that does not seem to get much attention and that is repentance, repentance plays an important an role in our lives, it is a cleaning out and a clearing of the way and a putting behind of the old ways, a sweeping out of the cobwebs that tend to cloud our thinking. I would think that true repentance brings faith and not the other way around, if we are not able to lay aside our pride, our education and the many other things that can stand in our way and repent to God in Godly sorrow we may be in for it. It may stand as a determent to ones growth if he does not take repentance into consideration especially if one is coming forth out of a false doctrine and a form of Bible knowledge that has not produced the desired and intended fruit of the word. Jumping out of a false knowledge of the bible right into the middle of the Bible without repentance may be a formidable task. There is a certain scripture that one might bring to mind Matthew 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance: Matthew 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. Now we might change the word Abraham in many cases to Adventism and apply that to ourselves because of the problem of being raised in Adventism, suckled from its breast so to speak, fathered by it. Without one going to God and spending time before his majesty in humble repentance and submission, a time of clearing away and a time of cleaning and sweeping away the old things it may very well stand between us and the healing we so desperately need. Day before yesterday we drove up into the national forest and heading for the east side of Mt. St. Helens, the road winds through the trees but we came to a clearing in the forest and there stood the majestic mountain shining in the light of the sun and it made me to realize just a little of Gods great majesty through beholding his creation, mighty God is he. In Matthew three and eight John warned them about true and childlike repentance. In verse eleven Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: While it is true that man can baptize us with water, only Jesus can baptize us with the Holy Ghost, and with fire. I think many of us have taken the first step to be baptized in water but have ignored the second. Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Notice the order of this, first repentance, then baptism and then receipt of the gift of the Holy Ghost. To my way of thinking we just cannot go for the baptism and receipt of the Holy Spirit part and skip true repentance, repentance may not be necessarily tied up in the words we say but a bowing of heart in humble submission before his mighty power and grace, a letting go of the old things and allowing him to make all things new. I am so reminded of the old song this morning “Give it all, give it all, give it all to Jesus and he will make a way for you.” Yes Lord, I give you all my understanding, my cares, my shortcomings, my unrest, my uncertainties, my sorrows, my pain, and my past which I cannot nothing about and humble myself under your might hand this morning. Oh hide me in the cleft of your hand from the storms that threaten Oh gentle savior. River | ||
| Stevendi Registered user Username: Stevendi Post Number: 130 Registered: 10-2006 |
Sadly, for many religion is a search for a formula that will afford the seeker a way to save himself or herself. This is why we have Adventism which claims that the Jewish Sabbath is the cornerstone of salvation, not Jesus. I'm in Van Morrison and John Lennon's camp, who sing of "no religion" in their quest for truth. steve | ||
| Jim02 Registered user Username: Jim02 Post Number: 57 Registered: 5-2007 |
Thank You all for your feedback. Jim | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6052 Registered: 12-2003 |
You're right, Steve, about people gravitating to formulas. We all seem to want to do that naturally. River, It's interesting to me that you wrote about repentance. That is something I've actually thought a lot about during the past few months. Your point about repenting before expecting to understand is well taken. I have found that I've had to repent of things I had no idea were wrong, at first. I've had to repent of my Adventism, of my teaching it to so many students—sincerely but ignorantly, of arrogance, of the rigidity with which I reacted to my sons because of my need to appear competent in the community, etc. In fact, I have to pray ongoingly that God will protect me from deception, that He will teach me truth, that He will purge me of ego and pride, etc. You are absolutely right about the need for repentance. Whenever I rationalize something, it's usually something I need to hold loosely and surrender to God. Thank you for your insights. Colleen |
