| Author |
Message |
Laurie
Registered user
Username: Laurie
Post Number: 11
Registered: 6-2007
| | Posted on Monday, June 18, 2007 - 5:27 pm: |     |
Phil -
I do understand what you are asking. To be honest, at first it is quite hurtful that you can walk away from a lifetime of involvement and nobody looks twice. Then you wonder how can that be. This church holds their amazing facts seminars, revelation seminars, claims to be the remnant with a mission to spread the 3 angels message to the world...but people walk right out from their midst and they don't even pick up a phone. I guess I still don't know the answer. I know on the few occasions I have tried to tell people why I left they cut me off. They refuse to hear anything contrary to their beliefs.
I do remember one person kinda asking me why I left. There is a volunter where I work - older, probably in his 70's that still goes to the church I went to. He came up to me at work one day and said "are you going to a Sunday keeping church". I just laughed. Before I could even answer he said "how can you eat fatback after having steak all your life". Then he held his hand up to me as if to say "enough of you" and walked away and left me standing there. I guess you could consider that asking me why I left.
Even when I told my parents I was leaving the SDA church I felt anger from my mom. Anger that I could question her beliefs. We had many many heated arguments and now it is just not discussed.
I don't know the answer Phil.
Laurie |
Marysroses
Registered user
Username: Marysroses
Post Number: 34
Registered: 4-2007
| | Posted on Monday, June 18, 2007 - 6:59 pm: | |
Laurie..
I've been 'out' since 1982 and my mom's anger took years to fade. Now its not anger, but I can still feel the frustration, and yet not once has she asked me for the reason I left. I go to SDA church socials with her now and then since I have moved back to my hometown. She's had three pastors since I've lived here, and there is a usual pattern: At first, they are interested in me, then they find out I attend church elsewhere. One dropped any attempt at conversation right there, the other two made an attempt to start the usual sabbath conversation with 'You do believe in the 10 commandments don't you?' (BOTH of them, same identical words, lol ) When they found I know and can defend my faith, the conversation ended, and thereafter I was ignored by them at all subsequent church functions. Not one of the three asked me why I left in the first place. Not one was willing to carry on a conversation after figuring out I was not going to be swayed by the usual script.
At a cousin's 60th birthday party/family reunion (all of them SDA but me and mine) I got a lot of 'when are you coming back to church' kind of comments from relatives I had not seen in years, but no one wanted a real conversation. My younger cousins were polite but didn't let their kids play with my kids, (yea, I DID notice this) the fear of contamination would be funny if it wasn't so sad.
MarysRoses |
Jorgfe
Registered user
Username: Jorgfe
Post Number: 287
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Monday, June 18, 2007 - 7:33 pm: | |
Laurie -- I can really relate to what you said. My wife and I held various offices as well. As a "good Seventh-day Adventist, I even showed "Keepers of the Flame" (video history of the SDA Church) to the Earliteens when I was a joint teacher in that department. The church board felt that was too conservative and terminated my teaching position at the end of the year.
I am tempted to call the SDA pastor (who told me that he feels Ellen White had some loose screws) and ask him if he still is in town. After dialoging extensively with him over all the problems with 3rd quarter 2006 1844 garbage, it is amazing that I haven't heard a peep out of him. During the same time I told him that I was attending a local Baptist congregation on Sundays, and invited him since he was initially raised a Baptist as a child, and also would have no scheduling conflict on Sundays.
I have thought of putting in a request for membership transfer through the Baptist Church I attend to my prior SDA church (that still holds my SDA membership), and see if that would generate any kind of a reaction.
I suppose since Adventism has "the truth" it is incomprehensible to them how we could become so "disoriented"!
I wonder what they would say if I started "hustling them" for "Bible Studies" like they do non-Adventists? What a mission field. I guess I just like to "stir the pot" to much!
Gilbert Jorgensen |
River
Registered user
Username: River
Post Number: 890
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Monday, June 18, 2007 - 8:12 pm: | |
O.k. Folks I am going to lay it on you hard and I don’t care if you chastise me or if you think I sound judgmental I am still going to tell it like I see it.
Here that is, without the Holy Spirit abiding in ones heart we just don’t have the ability to care a great deal.
Without the true love of Christ in our hearts we just cannot produce much in the way of caring for others.
From all indicators as far as I can truthfully tell Adventist have a form of Godliness but denies the power thereof.
That power I think may well be the Holy Spirit. When the Holy Spirit comes in he is going to bring some sort of change, you begin to care for others and you can’t fake the Holy Spirit, and he is going to guide you concerning his word.
Where is the evidence of the Holy Spirit in their life? If you can give me an example I will believe you. Its certainly not reflected in the way they teach the word.
If one is going to defend that from the stories on the front of this website he better take a lunch.
Now I may be wrong and the Holy Spirit may be in them, but I just can’t see the evidence.
Now it is not my place to accuse anyone of not having the Holy Spirit, but it is my place to look for the fruit and for the evidence, I think we just cannot be catatonic concerning this. To become catatonic is inviting oneself to be fooled again.
That, I believe is why they don’t care, so there is your answer Phil.
River |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 3807
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Monday, June 18, 2007 - 8:49 pm: | |
River, you do lay all on the line. I do think the Holy Spirit fills some SDAs, like my friends in VA, who recently left the SDA church. But you may be right about the others that seem not to care. I am just glad that I am not in their place. I have enough on my plate to take care of.
Diana |
Philharris
Registered user
Username: Philharris
Post Number: 47
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Monday, June 18, 2007 - 8:50 pm: | |
Thanks River,
I like your blunt way of confronting an issue. No problem, on my part, in figuring out what you think. What you say makes sense, because they claim the "seal of Sabbath keeping" and not the seal of the Holy Spirit.
To paraphrase your expression on another post, my prayer is how do I avoid arguing with a whole row of "fence posts" when our family meets at our next reunion?
I am thinking on presenting a lesson based on 1 Cor. Chapter Three.
Phil |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 6089
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, June 18, 2007 - 10:22 pm: | |
Phil, what have you got to lose? it sounds as if the family is pretty silent on significant topics when they're around you. If you present a Bible teaching, what can you lose? At least you have presented the gospel.
They may still not respond; they may even become more hostile. (The "more hostile" scenario is one I have observed frequently...) But you never know when you are planting seeds. God will likewise help you to know if and when you should just remain silent. Richard and I have a few people in our lives about whom we believe the "pearls before swine" analogy applies. I have been so offended by the denigration of God's word and of the work of the Jesus and the Holy Spirit by people close to us who can see that we are not profligate but attribute God's work in our lives to Satan.
It truly is, as River says, the Holy Spirit who creates concern and spiritual insight in people. (It's interesting that 1 Corinthians 3 follows chapters 1 and 2 where Paul explains that spiritual things are spiritually discerned...)
Colleen |
U2bsda
Registered user
Username: U2bsda
Post Number: 498
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Monday, June 18, 2007 - 11:00 pm: | |
Interesting thread. It made me realize that in the 8 years since I left the SDA church no one in my family has asked why I left and my family works for the church. Maybe they think they know my answers, but I think they would just prefer not to hear what I would say. It is easier for them to avoid the issue. Sometimes I think they may blame my spouse. I will have to bring up the issue at some point because I need to let them know the "why" was not because of my spouse. |
River
Registered user
Username: River
Post Number: 893
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 19, 2007 - 6:41 am: | |
Dianna, of course the Holy Spirit fills (comes along side) some SDA's, thats why they get out!
When the Holy Spirit comes in false doctrine can't stay, you may well be confused, even dumfounded and wonder where you are, you may not know up from down, it happens all the time, “What church do I go to?” Who do I believe?” Anybody been there?
You will become uncomfortable in Adventist churches and no longer feel at home there and I think if you don't leave pretty soon he may very well light a fire under your seat, paddle your behind and help you along.
He may very well feed you on a mixture of rice milk simply because you are not able to feed on the meat of the word, once weaned off though you will grow strong and flourish under the “sincere milk of the word”.
I suspect another answer to Phil’s question may be that you are cut off from Adventist because it very well may be that he don’t want you back there messing around with these people just yet, I don’t pretend to know these things that the Holy Spirit does in your life, it is just things I suspect may be happening.
The answer to Phil’s question may well lay in a combination of these answers. I do think God knows us better than we know ourselves and he keeps us from harming ourselves. Example: Would you let your little child run out in the street? Of course not, we are his little children.
John 13:33 "Little children, I shall be with you a little while longer. You will seek Me; and as I said to the Jews, 'Where I am going, you cannot come,' so now I say to you.
John 13:34 "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another.
John 13:35 "By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."
Does the Adventist church have the love that Jesus is talking about here?
If you cross them they will turn on you and bite you. Ask Jess Dixon. Ask colleen.
So how do we know we are his disciples? By the love and care and concern we have for one another.
The reason their blindness weighs heavily on Phil’s heart is because of this love that I speak of I am pretty sure. Phil is not alone, it has weighed heavily on my heart for some time.
So Phil, I wouldn’t be too surprised if they show their fangs and give you a warning growl or two if I were you and it may get worse than that.
You stated they made you a clan leader or something to that effect so you feel responsible for them, well, the Holy Spirit better be your leader, did he appoint you to lead them or did they? If he didn’t appoint you to lead them and you are under his leadership; well go figure, not my place to say, just food for thought. Just be careful.
River |
Laurie
Registered user
Username: Laurie
Post Number: 12
Registered: 6-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 19, 2007 - 1:01 pm: | |
River - no disagreement from me.
You stated "You will become uncomfortable in Adventist churches and no longer feel at home there and I think if you don't leave pretty soon he may very well light a fire under your seat, paddle your behind and help you along"
Oh can I relate to this. I became so uncomfortable I could not sit through an entire service without crying and sobbing. At first I didn't even know why. I spent the better part of every sermon sitting by myself on the front steps of the church. And once again.... not one person ever came out and said "are you ok". Not one, and I sat out there many many times.
I finally told my husband I didn't think I could ever step foot in there again. I actually felt (and I hesitate to say this) an evil spirit in there. I would actually cry in the car on the way to church.
I'm going to stop talking about this, it's making me sick.
Laurie |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 6097
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 19, 2007 - 10:39 pm: | |
Laurie, again I completely understand and relate to your feelings. Thank you, and know that you're not alone in these memories!
Colleen |
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