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Philharris
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Username: Philharris

Post Number: 39
Registered: 5-2007


Posted on Sunday, June 17, 2007 - 2:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was baptized into the SDA church at age 12. At about age 16, I physically quit going to church and joined the world with the intension of become a practicing sinner. When Richard gets his computer fixed and finishes revamping this forum, my story will be posted, so I will not going into the details of this decision here.

No one ever asked me why I had left and only one person bothered to ask me to come back, and, he offered his daughter as "bait". This I found offensive and really became entrenched in my way of life.

Not until I surrendered and returned to the Lord and joined a Sunday worshiping church, did anyone from the SDA church ask anything about my faith. That person was an aunt of mine and when I said "I now believed EGW to be a false prophet", that conversation came to an abrupt end.

Not until I received an "underground" letter from a group within the Napa SDA church, did I know that I was still an official member. The letter had to do with an attempt to remove the existing pastor from their church and wanted my help. At the time, I was about to join the Napa Valley Evangelical Free Church and realized I had to ask to be removed from the SDA roles.

So, my question to those with more wisdom than me is: Why was I ignored for so long and why did nobody from the SDA church seem interested in me until they wanted me to join their fight?

Phil
Foofighter
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Username: Foofighter

Post Number: 4
Registered: 7-2005
Posted on Sunday, June 17, 2007 - 3:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Phil,

I know exactly what you are saying. We moved to a small town, after my husband left denominational employment of 25 years, and started attending the SDA church here. Only about 20 members. We attended for about 2 years (not every week, but often enough). No one knew of my questions and dissaftisfaction with the beliefs of SDA, but we did stop attending altogether about 3-4 years ago.
No one has asked about how we are, why we stopped attending, NOTHING. My husband works with the head elder, sees others in town (remember this is a VERY small town, about 1200 people) and yet, no asking of anything about our spiritual walk. I think probably, by now, quite a few if not all know we are attending another church. But, still silence. I think generally, that is the Adventist way. Very few will actually speak directly to the individual concerning where they are attending church, etc. Way too uncomfortable to talk of spiritual issues outside of Adventism.
It is just so BIZARRE!!!!!
Flyinglady
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Username: Flyinglady

Post Number: 3794
Registered: 3-2004


Posted on Sunday, June 17, 2007 - 4:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

When I quit attending the SDA church in VA, no one tried to contact me either. I went to church occasionally and no one said anything to me about my absences between times. When my name was taken off the church books, no one contacted me or let know it was going to happen. I found out a couple years later, when one of the elders, who knew my address and phone number told me, at the grocery story, that my name had been removed. By that time I did not care.
Then when I moved to another city in VA I attended church and the members were blase about my presence. Finally I met some real Christians, who are still my friends and have left the SDA church since then. I would go to church only to see them as we were so busy during the week to visit each other. The pastor who was at the church would ask me, "And how are you Diana?" and I would reply, "God is good and taking care of me". The second pastor and his wife were really nice and I got to know them quite well. I was very truthful with this pastor and told him that I was more comfortable in my 12 step program than in church because the people accepted me, where as at church every thing was so legalistic. Here is how I put it. I am more comfortable as I am then I was as a Bible carrying, go to SS and church, tithe paying SDA. He was surprised I was so truthful with him. I told him that God knew the truth, so why should I try to hide it when speaking to him.
As a non member I even offered to call all the absent members and invite them back to church. I never did that because by that time I knew I was moving out of VA. The second pastor had transferred out of VA also.
In the meantime, the only people friendly to me was this couple. I put up a thread telling about their leaving the SDA church. Through all this time the wife considered and still considers me her best friend. We share the name- Diana.
God has been so good and blessed me with such dear friends. Thank you God. You are truly awesome.
Diana
Timmy
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Username: Timmy

Post Number: 186
Registered: 8-2006


Posted on Sunday, June 17, 2007 - 4:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think they say nothing because deep down inside they are glad we are free, and they wish they could be free too. In their hearts they know they are trapped, they just don't know how to get out.
Gcfrankie
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Username: Gcfrankie

Post Number: 10
Registered: 1-2007
Posted on Sunday, June 17, 2007 - 4:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I can relate to what you both are saying. I have not attended the SDA church in the last two months and I was into working at the church at one time as it is very small. Not one person has called me until the other night to see if I was going to camp meeting and if so could I give someone a ride. Does not Jesus teaches us we should love one another and that we are all brothers and sisters in HIM?
I picked up up a study guide on Galations and in the introduction was written:"When men and women get their hands on religion, one of the first things they often do is turn it into an instrument for controlling others, either putting or keeping them in their place." I gave a lot of thought to that and realized that is what the SDA and EGW does, keeping you in their little box of beliefs.
Flyinglady
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Username: Flyinglady

Post Number: 3797
Registered: 3-2004


Posted on Sunday, June 17, 2007 - 5:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

AMEN Gcfrankie.
Diana
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 6072
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Sunday, June 17, 2007 - 8:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Phil, I believe this phenomenon of silence is, like Timmy suggested, a way to avoid thinking about the fact that someone actually knows and worships Jesus outside Adventism. They are used to people leaving and "going into the world", being irreligious and sinful. They know, however, that those people "know the truth", and there's a chance they'll be back when they tire of sin or fear they'll die and be lost because they've trampled the "truth".

When people leave and find Jesus, however, that is so uncomfortable because it triggers their own doubts and resentments. I believe Adventists in general have niggling questions and doubts they can't answer. When people leave and become Christ-followers, those that remain behind cannot compute the contrast between what they know and what their "former" friends experience.

My mom told me that one of her first dissonances she could not reconcile in her own mind was her experience as a pediatric nurse at Portland Adventist Hospital during the 60s and 70s. She frequently had teenaged patients who were Christians, and she was puzzled at their natural openness to speak about Jesus. None of the Adventist teens she knew could speak that way, and she could never figure out what the difference was.

Her dissonance is just one example of the kinds of subliminal dissonance most Adventists have at some level. They know something is different between them and other Christians, and they just can't explain it because they know THEY have the truth. So they ignore (shun) those who leave because there are just too many problems to figure out--not the least of which is fear of contamination.

Colleen
Philharris
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Username: Philharris

Post Number: 41
Registered: 5-2007


Posted on Sunday, June 17, 2007 - 8:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Colleen,
Your mention of the Portland Adventist Hospital is of interest to me because I have a cousin who was a nurse there and her husband worked at the same place in the maintenance department.

We grew up together back in Napa and her mother and grandmother (her grandmother and mine were sisters) assumed I would be returning to the SDA church when I turned my life back to the Lord. When that didn't happen they avoided asking why. We were and still are very close. Among other things, her brother and my brother are buried next to each other in the St Helena Cemetery. A couple a years ago my wife and I visited with them and even attended the SDA church next to the hospital, with them. However, they never got around to asking why I was not in the SDA church.

Phil
Jeremy
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Username: Jeremy

Post Number: 1881
Registered: 10-2004


Posted on Sunday, June 17, 2007 - 9:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I believe that it is, as you said in your last sentence Colleen--fear. They're afraid of being deceived by talking with those who have left.

Jeremy
Stevendi
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Username: Stevendi

Post Number: 133
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Monday, June 18, 2007 - 5:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah Colleen,

Most Adventists I've known will debate Sabbath and diet all day long, but get real quiet when you want to talk about Jesus and His sacrifice, His words.

steve
Jonvil
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Username: Jonvil

Post Number: 64
Registered: 4-2007
Posted on Monday, June 18, 2007 - 6:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have difficulty even saying the following for I condemn myself: The lack of genuine concern (LOVE) for the spiritual well-being of others reflects the lack of the Holy Spirit that was promised to those who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.

John 7:39 But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive;

Joh 14:16-18 "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; (17) that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you. (18) "I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

Mat 22:36-39 "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?" (37) And He said to him, " 'YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.' (38) "This is the great and foremost commandment. (39) "The second is like it, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.'

1Jn 4:11-15 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. (12) No one has seen God at any time; if we love one another, God abides in us, and His love is perfected in us. (13) By this we know that we abide in Him and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit. (14) We have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world. (15) Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.
Insearchof
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Username: Insearchof

Post Number: 115
Registered: 8-2005
Posted on Monday, June 18, 2007 - 6:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My wife and I noticed the same when we left. It was as if we had fallen off the face of the earth! Given that we were held in high esteem by the congregation, it still amazes me that we hear from very few after almost a year away.

In their defense, I was the same way with others when they left (while I was still active). We just let them go. I suppose for some it is fear of being led away that keeps them from contacting the ones that leave. Remember that the Adventist church has a built-in 'excuse' for not contacting members that leave - 'the bright lights will go out' and all that. It means that they don't have to reach out since this is all part of the 'prophecy of the end times'.

ISO
River
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Username: River

Post Number: 882
Registered: 9-2006


Posted on Monday, June 18, 2007 - 8:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote: Remember that the Adventist church has a built-in 'excuse' for not contacting members that leave - 'the bright lights will go out' and all that.

Yeah, according to one person Colleens was one of the brightest and it went plumb out, you got to watch them lights.
Course they don't figure mine came on in the first place and they have given me up as a defective light, filament-less you might say.
Rest of you got busted filaments!
River
Godssonjp
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Username: Godssonjp

Post Number: 30
Registered: 1-2007
Posted on Monday, June 18, 2007 - 8:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yesterday, I attended a funeral of a older deacon of about 70+ years old at the SDA church I used to attended. I haven't attended service there in about 1 1/2 years aside for 2 times I was invited for special services. This would be the 3rd time since. Each time I went, no one asked why I left. I've been asked "how are you and the family?" Been told we are missed soooo much. And "where are you attending church, now"? But no one ever asks "why did you leave?"

I kinda expected my closer friends to ask why, but they haven't. On the occassions when I see them we usually talk about other things, not why I left. It's funny because when we used to talk about some of the "problems" of the SDA church, we shared some of the same issues. So, I'm a little puzzled why my friends wouldn't ask me or talk to me about these things. I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

At this funeral, someone who I recognize but am not too familiar with, said she hasn't seen me and the family in a while. (I can't even recall this sister's name) When I told her we haven't been attending, she asked where have we been attending. Now, we haven't found a church home yet, and honestly, haven't really been looking as of yet. So, I really didn't have an answer other than to truthfully say we haven't been attending anywhere but visiting from time to time. (Lately, I've felt motivated to start my search for a church home soon. I have a couple of churches in mind to start with but thats another thread)
Still, no questioned as to why I left. My wife's mother and step-father (who's an Edler in the SDA church)have yet to ask why we left. It's amazing how the subject gets avoided. They won't even come by our home after church. Our house is less than a 5 minute drive from the church.

I'm not the type of person who will bring up a subject in casual conversation just so that I can make a point or let everyone know about how I feel about any subject. But, if the subject of why I left comes up or the conversation leads that way, I will talk about it. But just when I feel like the subject may go there, the subject gets changed. Maybe God doesn't want me to go there yet. Maybe I'm not ready or they're not ready to go there yet. Either case, the conversation seems to always be diverted to something else.

I think, as others have said, that they fear being decieved. I believe that they're not even confident enough in what they believe to dialouge with people who clearly have Christ in their lives, who used to believe what they believed, and now believe something different. When SDAs can still see Christ in you, and even more so than before, after you leave adventism, that puts question on their "truth". IMHO.
River
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Username: River

Post Number: 884
Registered: 9-2006


Posted on Monday, June 18, 2007 - 10:10 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Godssonjp and all the rest too.

I am just wondering how that made you feel inside, the fact that people you perhaps worshiped with for years never asking about your welfare (or) as it has been put) as if you dropped off the end of the earth or never existed in the first place, of course you don't need feel any obligation to answer this question.

River
Philharris
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Username: Philharris

Post Number: 43
Registered: 5-2007


Posted on Monday, June 18, 2007 - 11:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

River,
Originaly, I didn't care or ponder what the SDA people or my family might be thinking about me. Later as I pondered things over, this issue left me perplexed.

Since my great grandfather was one of the early pioneer preachers in the SDA church and my grandmother was highly respected in the local conference, you would have thought somebody, at least in my family, would have been curious enough to ask.

Which is why, here at this forum, maybe we can collectively share our thoughts and come up with some kind of understanding.

Thanks, everybody, for sharing your experiences. It sure seems that we have a lot in common.

Phil
Ardyj
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Username: Ardyj

Post Number: 35
Registered: 8-2006


Posted on Monday, June 18, 2007 - 2:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Some of you, in my mind, have "hit the nail on the head" when you said they have fear. They don't know how to react to us. We have found Jesus, and they just don't understand that. Don't they have Jesus now they might think to themselves? Well yes, they think they have Jesus.....somewhere....sort of. BUT they have to "keep the Sabbath", they have to be careful to not have lard in the cookies they buy and take the bacon off the salad, and on and on and on. You know all of those "things" that have to be done so one can try to win approval from God. Really makes a person tired, doesn't it? So they do have that little "niggling" as one of you said that maybe something isn't quite right, but....

When we left, I did have two people ask me why. To both of them, I tried to simplify my anwers and said I didn't believe in EGW and hadn't for some time; and that Adventism was based on her. One lady just nodded her head, and said nothing further. The other lady's reaction really disturbed me. She said "oh, she's been dead for a long time, and she doesn't mean anything to me anyway." Disturbing, because it says that many of these people really do not know what is the basis for their beliefs. They think it's Bible based because they've been fed all these verses here and there and the IJ and all that stuff and they just have sat there and continue to sit there and nod their heads and blindly accept these trumped up ideas.

A couple weeks ago I talked with a dear lady who left the sda's several years ago, but not for the reasons we on this forum would like to have happened. Anyway, she said to me, "What I really don't understand is that nobody ever called or talked to me and asked why. It was just as though I simply didn't exist anymore." I prayed for some right words to come, and we talked as much as two people can in the aisle of Safeway. My final words to her that day were: "Jesus is the Gospel, and every day I have rest in Jesus". She said that sounded really good to her.

We need to pray as never before for these people who are still immersed in adventism and those who are just lost and alone out there somewhere.

Jesus is my rest! Praise God!
Ardyj
Jorgfe
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Username: Jorgfe

Post Number: 284
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Monday, June 18, 2007 - 2:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have experienced much the same. It is both fascinating, and ironic. When I was an Adventist we prided ourselves on "knowing" the Bible (enlightened by the "Pen of Inspiration") better than "non-Adventists". For example, pseudo-evangelist Doug Batchelor likes to get up with a Bible in one hand and wow people with his verbal diarrhea of out-of-context "proof texts" sanitized by the writings of Ellen White.

It has been about 9 months since I ceased attending a Seventh-day Adventist Church. The General Conference (and Clifford Goldstein) thoroughly convinced me in the 3rd quarter 2006 Adult Sabbath School Lesson Study on 1844 and the mythical Investigative Judgment of the bizarre reasoning and wild "proof-texting" they were willing to freely insult our intelligence with. Prominent denominational leaders who were in attendence (one of whom was in attendence at GlacierView) agreed that "the whole edifice" needed to be "torn down", and rebuilt on the Bible. Week after week we reviewed in amazement the prepostorous assumptions that Clifford Goldstein assailed us with. (For example, "since no other denomination teaches 1844, that is 'proof' that Seventh-day Adventism is God's Remnant Church" -- the only one with the truth!) About 80% of the class was dumbfounded, while the remaining 20% desparately called out to Ellen White for help.

During the past 9 months no one has even questioned the decision I (and others) made to leave Adventism and join a truly Christian fellowship. To this day, they have not even asked why. There is no doubt in my mind that:

1. They can not reconcile what they have been taught about a person apostatizing when they leave Adventism, with the fact that to follow the Bible only will definitely lead a person to leave Adventism. A system based on fear cannot relate to a New Covenant system based on God's grace. This is why they refer to it as "cheap grace". This is why Adventists refuse to talk (much less get excited) in any meaningful way about the New Covenant. I suspect most Adventists could not even tell you who its Mediator is! They still worship a system whose High Priest departed in 70 A.D. That means they have no High Priest -- an unfortunate position indeed! And they can't count Jesus as their High Priest. He was never part of the Levitical priesthood. I get a headache just thinking of their contorted logic!

2. Even historic SDA's who can quote Ellen White in their sleep are at a total loss to support their position from the Bible only. They simply can't do it. That is a fact. Having to do so is one of their worse fears, and so they just refuse to dialog, and instead try to use some of the right "terminology" to make it sound like they somehow have some kind of relationship with Christ. It is extremely frustrating to get these types to even participate in an real Bible Study based on sound principles of Biblical interpretation. Quoting Daniel 8:14 out of context (they couldn't even explain the context if their life depended on it!), and jumping through proof texts, combined with earnest searching of Ellen White's "inspired" writings is the best that they can do.

Where is the beef? They can't produce any!

Last fall I received a list of 6 questions relating to 1844 and the sanctuary service from a fellow Seventh-day Adventist. I answered every single one. They refuse to even continue the study (from the Bible only) -- because they know that they can't support their position from the Bible alone. And when I call to talk with them, I am told that they are out giving a "Bible Study". That is pure intellectual dishonesty that needs to be exposed for what it really is.

Gilbert Jorgensen
Laurie
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Username: Laurie

Post Number: 10
Registered: 6-2007
Posted on Monday, June 18, 2007 - 3:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think you are all right in your answers. But I also think they don't really care. They are right, you are wrong, they don't care.

My husband and I were both very active in the church. Deacon and deaconess, mens choir, church pianist, ss teachers in children and adult. Not one solitary single person has asked us why we left. They don't care.
Philharris
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Username: Philharris

Post Number: 46
Registered: 5-2007


Posted on Monday, June 18, 2007 - 4:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Laurie,

I agree with what you said and understood that when I first asked the question. There have been some very good responses such as; "they are afraid to ask", but I will restate the question: Why don't they care?

I do have a motive for asking that I have not yet voiced, so let me now share what it is:

Several years ago the family voted me clan president. Our yearly reunions have been going on for more than sixty or seventy years and are centered around the fact that we are all descended from my great grandfather who was an early SDA preacher and a high percentage of them are still in the SDA church.

As near as I can tell from my own observation, religious discussions are initiated by the non-Adventist. Then, things can get very lively. As a conversation breaker I have attempted to bring up what I consider as topics of mutual agreement. Nothing, everybody goes silent on me. The one thing they don't ask is why I am not one of them, even though that is how I was raised.

Since they made me their leader I feel responsible to lead them out of their present blindness and introduce them to the real Savior. Their present blindness weights heavy on my heart.

Phil

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