| Author | Message | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 293 Registered: 11-2005 |
I felt impressed to post this article. How many of us feel discouraged when we find ourselves having to expose error? Like Jonah, it would be so much easier just to take the easy way out and just rationalize it away, wouldn't it! Jesus never said that following Him was going to be easy. That is one of the reasons these forums, and the dedication of Richard and Colleen Tinker are so important to each of us. This forum is like the Spring of Living Water where we find encourage to expose the error we have been taught, so others aren't blindsided by it. Gilbert Jorgensen --------------------------------- Exposing Error: Is It Worthwhile? By Dr. Harry Ironside Objection is often raised even by some sound in the faith-regarding the exposure of error as being entirely negative and of no real edification. Of late, the hue and cry has been against any and all negative teaching. But the brethren who assume this attitude forget that a large part of the New Testament, both of the teaching of our blessed Lord Himself and the writings of the apostles, is made up of this very character of ministry-namely, showing the Satanic origin and, therefore, the unsettling results of the propagation of erroneous systems which Peter, in his second epistle, so definitely refers to as "damnable heresies." Our Lord prophesied, "Many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many." Within our own day, how many false prophets have risen; and oh, how many are the deceived! Paul predicted, "I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. Therefore watch." My own observation is that these "grievous wolves," alone and in packs, are not sparing even the most favoured flocks. Undershepherds in these "perilous times" will do well to note the apostle's warning: "Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers." It is as important in these days as in Paul's-in fact, it is increasingly important-to expose the many types of false teaching that, on every hand, abound more and more. We are called upon to "contend earnestly for the faith once for all delivered to the saints," while we hold the truth in love. The faith means the whole body of revealed truth, and to contend for all of God's truth necessitates some negative teaching. The choice is not left with us. Jude said he preferred a different, a pleasanter theme-"Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ" (Jude 3, 4). Paul likewise admonishes us to "have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them" (Eph. 5:11). This does not imply harsh treatment of those entrapped by error-quite the opposite. If it be objected that exposure to error necessitates unkind reflection upon others who do not see as we do, our answer is: it has always been the duty of every loyal servant of Christ to warn against any teaching that would make Him less precious or cast reflection upon His finished redemptive work and the all-sufficiency of His present service as our great High Priest and Advocate. Every system of teaching can be judged by what it sets forth as to these fundamental truths of the faith. "What think ye of Christ?" is still the true test of every creed. The Christ of the Bible is certainly not the Christ of any false "-ism." Each of the cults has its hideous caricature of our lovely Lord. Let us who have been redeemed at the cost of His precious blood be "good soldiers of Jesus Christ." As the battle against the forces of evil waxes ever more hot, we have need for God-given valour. There is constant temptation to compromise. "Let us go forth therefore unto Him without the camp, bearing His reproach." It is always right to stand firmly for what God has revealed concerning His blessed Son's person and work. The "father of lies" deals in half-truths and specializes in most subtle fallacies concerning the Lord Jesus, our sole and sufficient Savior. Error is like leaven of which we read, "A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump." Truth mixed with error is equivalent to all error, except that it is more innocent looking and, therefore, more dangerous. God hates such a mixture! Any error, or any truth-and-error mixture, calls for definite exposure and repudiation. To condone such is to be unfaithful to God and His Word and treacherous to imperiled souls for whom Christ died. Exposing error is most unpopular work. But from every true standpoint it is worthwhile work. To our Savior, it means that He receives from us, His blood-bought ones, the loyalty that is His due. To ourselves, if we consider "the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures of Egypt," it ensures future reward, a thousand-fold. And to souls "caught in the snare of the fowler"-how many of them God only knows-it may mean light and life, abundant and everlasting. [Dr. Harry Ironside (1876-1951), a godly Fundamentalist author and teacher for many years, served as pastor of Chicago's Moody Memorial Church from 1930-1948] | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 1888 Registered: 10-2004  |
Wow, what a great article, Gilbert! Thanks so much for sharing it. I remember coming across another great article by Dr. Ironside before, regarding eternal security, and I believe this is the article: http://www.gotothebible.com/HTML/eternalsecurity.html Jeremy | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 915 Registered: 9-2006  |
Thanks for that great Article by Dr. Ironside regarding eternal security; you know this question plagues many honest believing Christians in the church today. I’m sure there are none of you out there like this, but there are many Christians who in their own honesty are plagued with sins and habits, imperfections of character and feel they don’t measure up to other Christians in stature, I won’t name the sins that they may fall subject to, lets just call them imperfections, too these people they hardly ever meet someone who does not lead a better life than they do, after all their neighbors in church have attained “Holiness” so they struggle on in silent shame, never measuring up, never being able to come to that place of “Holiness” unsure of themselves, but they plow on and suffer alone, afraid to go to their Pastor or fellow Christians even for prayer. Dr. Ironsides did a great Job with his article addressing the problems of the belief of what I call “infernal insecurity”. The argument for being lost once saved is prevalent in the Pentecostal Holiness churches such as AOG and others. What this does is to leave those poor blokes who are still plagued by inconsistencies, struggling alone for “Holiness”. Dr. Ironsides brought up a point through a scripture “Will you also go away? And the answer came “Lord to whom would we go?” “You have the words of eternal life. If these lonely suffering Christians would just ask that question of the Lord” where would I go Lord, to whom else would I turn too? You have the words of eternal life, you are eternal life. That is the answer to the Lords question of all true born again believers. These lonely miserable suffering Christians could find rest if they would only answer Jesus question, no other answer will do a true born again believer. Does the former know that there are other Christians who suffer along in solitude, Confused, weary, just as you have suffered? Oh, you will never meet them to know who they are, these are the silent sufferers, they will never tell you, they go it alone, bereft of human companionship and comfort. They have surface fellowship, go to church every Sunday and even attend midweek services, they may even be identified as loving generous Christians by their fellows, which they are, yet they suffer alone. Why is this? I think it is primarily the churches demand for “Holiness” and they dare not show weakness. How many days have some of you suffered alone when you felt you had none who would understand, none to cheer you? So you went it alone, put on your face and went back to church. Have any of you ever wished at least one time in your life that you had someone whom you could be completely open with? Starved for that kind of human companionship but you were afraid to even think about doing that? Guess not. I suppose some of you cringe when I name names of denominations in my illustrations, you may even belong to that denomination I have named, but if we don’t call a spade, a spade, how in the world are we going to know it is a spade? Would that we remember to pray for the Christian who might be suffering alone, the Lords Admonition “I would that ye love one another” runs much deeper than the surface face of this world if we can only plumb the depths of his statement, his will. Mining for the gold of his will might entail breaking through hard rock, but I am convinced that if we keep drilling we will find the gold. Thanks again Jeremy for the link. Also Thanks too Gilbert for that article. River (Message edited by river on June 22, 2007) | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 294 Registered: 11-2005 |
I especially like his statements: "The "father of lies" deals in half-truths and specializes in most subtle fallacies concerning the Lord Jesus, our sole and sufficient Savior." "Truth mixed with error is equivalent to all error, except that it is more innocent looking and, therefore, more dangerous. God hates such a mixture! Any error, or any truth-and-error mixture, calls for definite exposure and repudiation. To condone such is to be unfaithful to God and His Word and treacherous to imperiled souls for whom Christ died." --------- So true!. When the false teachings of Ellen White are exposed, the reaction of many is to immediately defend her by pointing out the things she said that are right. That is called a "half-truth". And for holding up a heavy Bible or performing other "miracles" -- so what! Rev 13:14, 16:14, 19:20 all talk about the devil's ability to perform miracles through his agents and false prophets. Gilbert Jorgensen | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 165 Registered: 5-2007 |
There is doubt as the whether EGW even held up the heavy Bible, I have read where even some of EGWs descendants have said that didn't really happen. Just another Adventist fable! | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 1889 Registered: 10-2004 |
Gilbert wrote:
Good point, Gilbert! And Jesus even specifically warned us that it would be the false prophets that would come and perform "signs and wonders"! He never said that true prophets would come along and do those things! And yet the Adventists try to trumpet EGW's "miracles" as proof that she was a true prophet!
He even said GREAT signs and wonders! Jeremy | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 296 Registered: 11-2005 |
In Acts 20, I can just feel Paul's earnest plea: "Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood. I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them. So be on your guard! Remember that for three years I never stopped warning each of you night and day with tears." Acts 20:28-31 NIV People will accuse us of "digging up dirt", and of focusing on the false teachings within Adventism. Like a mirror shining its light into a dark corner, the light of God's Word quickly exposes the darkness of a false gospel, which the apostle Paul says in Galations 1:7 "is really no gospel at all." In chapter 5, verse 1 he says "It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery." This is not an indifferent, or whimpy response. These are words of encouragement, as we need to be as we encourage each other. The Lord tells us that we are to be a light to the world -- and if our light is weak how does that reflect on our Master? I have just reviewed the Lord's message to the Church at Ephesus in Revelation 2. He says, "I know your deeds, your hard work and your perseverance. I know that you cannot tolerate wicked men, that you have tested those who claim to be apostles but are not, and have found them false. You have persevered and have endured hardships for my name, and have not grown weary. Yet I hold this against you: You have forsaken your first love." We must never loose our "first love", the excitement that comes from escaping the yoke of Adventist legalism, and finding the true Sabbath Rest that our dear Lord freely offers us. That "first love" will not manifest itself in mere head knowledge. It is a transformation of the heart. Even more than just a transformation of the heart, it will produce results that others will notice. It will bring Light to the powers of darkness. We must read our Bibles with eager eyes. We can not get enough of it. We praise God from our heart. We love to sing praises to His name, and think about His free gift of grace to us. We must never loose the excitement of that "first love". Gilbert Jorgensen | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3834 Registered: 3-2004  |
I am amazed by the SDA on CARM who will ask for proof for the comments made abour EGW and from the Bible. Then when they are posted, they say we do not understand them correctly or that we had bad teachers, meaning in SDA schools and in church during our growing up years. Everything is twisted around when the truth is pointed out to them. But the gallant formers keep it up. There are some who know the Bible so much better than I do. And they jump in and shore up what those of us, who do not know the Bible as well, put down. I pray for each SDA, but there are a couple that God has put on my heart-SDA ministers. I have told them that I am praying for them. So, I agree with you about not loosing our "first love". I ask God to use my fingers and all of me when I post on CARM. God is so awesome. Diana | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1117 Registered: 4-2000  |
Gilbert, Thanks for sharing that excellent quote. I downloaded it to share with my favorite theologian, Sylvia. Dennis Fischer | ||
| Marysroses Registered user Username: Marysroses Post Number: 38 Registered: 4-2007 |
"I am amazed by the SDA on CARM who will ask for proof for the comments made abour EGW and from the Bible. Then when they are posted, they say we do not understand them correctly or that we had bad teachers, meaning in SDA schools and in church during our growing up years. Everything is twisted around when the truth is pointed out to them. But the gallant formers keep it up." I have this same experience on CAF. I can post an EGW quote directly from the white estate website and have Adventists deny she said it, when confronted with the evidence, suddenly the claims that we have "twisted it out of context" come up. I really at this point in my life don't like debating doctrine endlessly, yet I keep posting on CAF as it seems there are always new Adventists comming on posting the same tired arguments and I do not like to allow their claims to go unrefuted. Fortunately, there are other valiant formers also posting there to help me out, or it would be a full time job! The most egregious (love that word) example was when a statement on belief from the General Conference website was quoted in a thread, and the Adventist denied that the General Conference website wasn't an 'official source' for Adventist beliefs. *rolling eyes* Anyway... Keep up the good work Diana! MarysRoses | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3840 Registered: 3-2004 |
MarysRoses, In my time on CARM I have seen 3 SDA who accepted Jesus Christ and understand what He has done for them. It has been worth the time and effort to write on there. Keep up the good work on CAF. By the way, What is CAF? Diana | ||
| Marysroses Registered user Username: Marysroses Post Number: 40 Registered: 4-2007 |
CAF is Catholic Answers Forum. Isn't it wonderful to see someone find their way out of Adventism. God bless, MarysRoses | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3843 Registered: 3-2004 |
It is so good to see some one meet Jesus Christ and say so on CARM. I praise God. It was really interesting because the current SDAs did not say much while the formers and the other Christians said all kinds of nice things. One young man finally understood about Jesus and the rest we have in Him. He, as his last post is still SDA, but his attitude toward Jesus is changed. This young man had been quite vocal for adventism. Diana | ||
| Marysroses Registered user Username: Marysroses Post Number: 42 Registered: 4-2007 |
It will be interesting to see how he grows if he continues to post  . I have seen people's attitudes turn even if they don't say much, we can always pray that those seeds will eventually bear fruit. It makes the effort of posting worth continuing. Lately I am finding debate oriented threads so draining. I was driving with my mom this week and she got started on a conversation about politics (something I avoid) and her idea was that the 'government' wanted to control everyone. Of course, this then would lead to the dreaded Sunday Law (insert creepy music). I think I have bigger worries in my life than the dreaded sunday law (insert creepy music). ARRRGH! I'm sorry for the rambling post. Thank you Diana for holding down the fort on CARM, so that maybe a few more people can escape the dread of the sunday law (creepy music again), and find their rest in Jesus. Who.. by the way, I'm going to turn my worries over to Him now so that I can get some sleep. He is faithful. MarysRoses | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3845 Registered: 3-2004 |
MarysRoses, I am not the only one who writes on CARM. There are many and they do a much better job of explaining the scriptures than I do, so I ask God to be with each one. The young man I mentioned above has not posted on CARM since God got a hold of him. I pray that he is still listening to God. Diana |
