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| Jay_g Registered user Username: Jay_g Post Number: 1 Registered: 7-2007 |
Hi, I wrote this about 3 weeks ago, the same day or near the same day I found this site. I wrote it to add to my myspace page but I didn't post it. When I'm about to my heart races, like I'm doing something wrong? I thank God I found this forum. I'm not sure exactly where I am spiritually. I'm not quite evangelical there are still questions that I think I need to figure out, before I commit to a Church. I do believe the earth is much older then the Bible would imply and I don't believe that Dinosaurs were around at the same time as man. These should have nothing to do with salvation or acceptance of Jesus' sacrifice, but I get hung up on them. I didn't have a really bad SDA experience. I loved my academy and college. I'm a 3rd or 4th generation SDA on my Mother's side, my Father is a Baptist. I chose SDA over Baptist based on the fact that there were other kids in the SDA church. I wasn't baptised until I was 17 and I remember being asked about EGW and saying something like "well I'm impressed she was never wrong" because we were taught that. My Father always had/has a sarcastic tone when he mentions EGW but never said anything bad about her. My Mother's family is mostly liberal adventist. We never ordered Pork, but if it was in our fried rice we would eat it. We never talked much about EGW or IJ or many of the other things people here talk about, though I did find out a lot in Academy & College that I didn't know from the local church. I'm noticing more and more things that I thought were in the Bible are not. Like Eve being alone, the Bible saying there would be real prophets in the end time, Christ being just like man with the ability to sin and the serpent in eden having wings. I was going to write out a whole long thing, but these take a lot of energy for me to write, but instead I'm attaching the one I wrote about 3 weeks ago. I'm still not sure if I should put it in my public blog or not? What do y'all think? (I'm not southern but I like saying y'all) Jay ************************************************ For many years I’ve been apologizing for the Church I grew up in. The church my Mother, Grandmother, many of my extended family and some of my friends are still members of. I stopped going while I was in a college run by that church, but I never quit. I just stopped going. Two months ago, maybe even less, I saw my old college roommate. They are really nice people but still very involved in the Church. They asked me if I still go to church and I said something like not very often or not as often as I should. What I should have said was, NO or I’ve gone twice in 6 years. I however didn’t want to make waves. Last Friday, I was asked “what is a Seventh Day Adventist?” and I tried to make a case for them being a “Mainstream protestant denomination”, similar to Methodists, but they still believed in the Biblical Sabbath like the Jews do. People sometimes ask if they are like Mormons or Jehovah’s witnesses and my reaction was always something like, no those are cults, SDA is a mainstream protestant denomination. So I ended up spending Friday night looking at articles online starting with Wikipedia about SDA, and I came across an article by Dale Ratzlaf who has a Masters of Divinity from Andrews university, called “The Truth About Seventh-Day Adventist ‘truth’” which you can find here… http://www.ratzlaf.com/Truth%20SDA%20Truth.pdf I read most of the Article Saturday Morning, while my Mother was at Church. She came home and commented about how few people were there. I had just read that the Church lost 1.5 million Members between 2000 and 2005. I commented that the further we get from 1844 the more people will leave the Church. She said that is what today’s sermon was about. I tried to get her to explain what was said and though she’s been going to Church for 60+ years she doesn’t even understand what happened in 1844. I’m not being critical on my Mom here; she believes that she is doing the right thing. I said “I’d come back if they stopped teaching stuff like the Day of Atonement which isn’t from the Bible”, I explained investigative judgment which I believe is against everything in the Bible. There was an organization offering many thousands of dollars to anyone who can back it up with texts from the Bible. If you are not familiar, it’s a teaching that in 1844 Jesus began judging who will go to heaven and who won’t starting with these who have died and ending with everyone alive at the end of time, basically closing the book on them, making irrelevant any sins or forgiveness after the time you are judged. (I don’t really understand it either) She suggested I see the pastor. I found a web site called http://www.exadventist.com and I downloaded a bunch of audio files and sent them to my iPod. I first one I listened to was “An Evangelical Adventist” by Pastor Mark Martin, it’s 3 one hour CDs or MP3 Files. You can find them here… http://www.exadventist.com/Home/Audio/tabid/57/Default.aspx I downloaded the others too but I haven’t listened to all of them yet. In the 2nd part of “An Evangelical Adventist” Pastor Martin Made what I thought was an Outrageous Claim. He said that Ellen White said this… “Since the flood, there has been amalgamation of man and beast, as may be seen in the almost endless varieties of species of animals, and in certain races of men.” I didn’t believe it at all. We were told as a Tennant of Faith that Ellen White was a Prophet of God? Check out #18 of the Fundamental Beliefs on the church web site! http://www.adventist.org/beliefs/fundamental/index.html 18. The Gift of Prophecy: One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen. G. White. As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. How could someone be the Lords messenger and also say that “Other Races are the result of sex between man and beast?” I figured that HAS TO BE A MISTAKE. So I went to the official web site of the Ellen G White estate. http://www.whiteestate.org/ They have a searchable database of all her writings, so I looked up Amalgamation, and sure enough the Spirit of Prophecy Volume one came up, Chapter VII the Flood. “Every species of animals which God had created was preserved in the ark. The confused species which God did not create, which were the result of amalgamation, were destroyed by the flood. Since the flood, there has been amalgamation of man and beast, as may be seen in the almost endless varieties of species of animals, and in certain races of men. {1SP 78.2}” As an Adventist you learn that the Latter Day Saints are Not REALLY Christians, you are taught that Jehovah’s Witnesses are a cult. You are taught that the Roman Catholic Church isn’t just a cult it’s an evil beast which will bring about the end of the world. Yet you never look in a mirror. The Adventist church still says “They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested.” Fundamental Belief #18 Yet if Ellen White doesn’t stand up to the Standard of the Bible, how can she still be listed as one of the 28 fundamental beliefs of the Church? (It was 27 fundamental beliefs last time I went to church but they added one in 2005) I’ve been exposed to anti Adventist material in the past but I was never convinced it was true. I’ve always been paranoid that it was written by another David Koresh. However listening to “An evangelical Adventist” I felt very sure that what he was saying about what was once “My Church” was true. I’m not doing this because I have all the answers. I’m doing this because in years and years of being an Adventist realizing that there was something quite not right with the teachings of the Church, Not once did anyone offer an alternative, not once did anyone really take a stand around me. I knew people left the church, but I always felt that it was because they failed, not because they found the Truth about what they had been told was the “truth”. I’m making this public to start a dialog. I would really like to talk to people about this. Certainly others can comment, but I’d really like to hear from both those who are still active in the church and those who have left. I feel very anxious about posting this on MySpace listed as an AUC alumni. Who knows who will read it? And what they will say. But I feel I do have to take a stand, if my church is really a cult, I need to expose it. If I am wrong, than I invite anyone who is reading this to let me know How I am Wrong or Why I am Wrong. Adventists have never failed to call other churches Cults, yet if Ellen White contradicts the Bible as much as I believe she does. How can a church which maintains that she is “Inspired” and hides the truth about her writing NOT be a Cult? For more information on Ellen White visit The Ellen White Research Project http://www.ellenwhite.org/index.html Thank You for reading this. Jay | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 265 Registered: 5-2007 |
You're right, Jay, The Adventist Church IS a cult. For the reasons you just stated. Welcome! | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3927 Registered: 3-2004  |
Jay, Welcome to FAF. That is an excellent article about the SDAs and you. You came to the right place when you came here. Here we can talk about what is unbiblical about the SDAs/EGW and what we are finding right in the Bible. We all believe the core doctrine of the gospel and that is Jesus Christ. When I left adventism 3 years ago, I found that the Sinday churches I visited all preached Jesus Christ. It confirmed what I had learned with God teaching me. Welcome again, you are in a good place. Diana | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 644 Registered: 6-2006  |
Hi Jay! Welcome to the forum. I've very glad you posted your story and am looking forward to reading more from you ~ One day I asked God a question that I had been so afraid to ask for many years. (I married and SDA) "Is the SDA church really the true church Lord?" and no lie, that same day I found Mark Martin's site and then this one. It has truly been a God-send!  Leigh Anne | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6214 Registered: 12-2003  |
Welcome to the forum, Jay! I'm so glad you've joined us. Wow--what a blog posting! I can't tell you whether or not to post it on your MySpace page, but I can tell you that what you have said is true. It resonates with your own honesty, and ultimately God asks us to have the integrity to declare and act upon what we believe. Thank you for posting it here. Just FYI, a great many evangelical Christians believe in an old earth--not evolution, mind you, but an old earth. Our pastor, who was trained at Dallas Seminary as a very conservative evangelical, is nonetheless brilliant and scholarly and fluent in both Hebrew and Greek. Over the past 15 years he has continued to read and study, and about six years ago he conducted a summer class in which he said that the Hebrew word for "day" in the creation story is a word that can--and is--translated variously throughout the OT as "era", epoch", or "age", depending upon context. He said that linguistically speaking, the words of the Hebrew OT do not rule out a long creation week. For other reading on the subject checkout www.reasons.org, the website of Hugh Ross, a Christian astrophysicist who believes in an old earth. Admittedly, he is controversial (as you can imagine), but his material is often insightful, and he honors the Lord Jesus as our sovereign Creator. Back to your online journey of discovery: all I can say is, praise God for how He has led you! God is so faithful to bring us to exactly what we need at exactly the time we are ready to "see". Again, we're glad you're here and look forward to talking more with you! Colleen | ||
| Wolfgang Registered user Username: Wolfgang Post Number: 142 Registered: 10-2005 |
Jay welcome,I actually posted some links on myspace bulletin board that read to all my SDA friends,not sure if they looked but I figured if they can all continue to send me mail about the church and 3ABN "hogwash" then I could post some helpful links for them. One SDa friend actually did tell me that my husband and I are prayed for every Sabbath because we are lost,and I just got a letter in tha mail that actually made me sad this lady said she came back into the church becuse of our baptisim and how much the church has gone down hill since we left. Dawn | ||
| Luzisbornagain Registered user Username: Luzisbornagain Post Number: 25 Registered: 7-2007 |
Welcome Jay. I know exactly how you feel when you find out you were part of a cult. When I became born again I was riding on the bus and talking to the bus driver and he said he was christian, too but I didn't know that. And we got across the issue about the sabbath. At that time I wasn't aware about the truth of the SDA or that the sabbath was actually nailed to the cross. And he said no Sunday is called the Lord's day and I told him but the sabbath was the day of rest. I even had all the bible text about the sabbath ready to show it to him. After a while I didn't see him anymore. Then I bumped into jesus-is-savior.com one day and clicked on false doctrines and there it was SDA listed as one of them. Then I wondered why. Next thing you know I click a link and I bump into pastor Mark Martin's site so I go to the sabbath section with biblical backup and I'm like what?! I was wrong all along? But that didn't fully convince me until I heard his podcast about the Covenants and boy were my eyes opened. It's funny how God guided me to the truth like that. Then I find out ellen g. white is false. Check out this link about Ellen g. white written by pastor Mark Martin. It's a book that has all the contradicting passages ellen g. white wrote compared to bible text. http://www.exadventist.com/book/ Maybe this will be a good reference for your search about truth Jay. God bless. Hope to hear from you again. | ||
| Jay_g Registered user Username: Jay_g Post Number: 2 Registered: 7-2007 |
In 1992 or 1993 I was at Atlantic Union College, taking a class called "fundamentals of Christian faith" or something like that which was thought by the new college pastor. Even at the time I called it an adventist catechism class. There were things I didn't agree with but for the most part I believed in the Sabbath. I asked "What is you only believe 25 or 26 of the 27 fundamental beliefs" and this girl I don't remember who she was turned around and said "Well if you believe in the Bible you will believe all 27!" I can still see where I was during that, and hear her self righteous tone. My problem was when going to other churches there was something in my mind about Rome changing the Sabbath to Sunday. Mark Martin's podcast or Cd or whatever it was, about the Covenants was enlightening. I really never realized that before, the logic made so much sense. Thank You for the welcomes. Jay | ||
| Insearchof Registered user Username: Insearchof Post Number: 129 Registered: 8-2005 |
Jay, Welcome! The questions you ask regarding the SDA church are absolutely valid. The church can dance around the issues by saying that (for instance) EGW whas a product of her times, EGW had some commonly held ideas that we now know are not correct, EGW was a prophet - but then they have to go into convoluted explanations about what constitues 'a prophet' - or - my favorite - 'she never claimed to be a prophet'. The more you study, the more you will question. Contrary to what Adventism says, this is a good thing! God has found you and will lead you into His truth - and it is not the 'truth' you have always believed! By the way...you said (I'm not southern but I like saying y'all). That is OK. I am Southern (notice the capitalization). As we like to say 'American by birth, Southern by the Grace of God'. But have no fear, God loves you anyway! ISO | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 659 Registered: 6-2006 |
ISO, you wrote - 'American by birth, Southern by the Grace of God' That's great! Does Southern California count? Leigh Anne | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6255 Registered: 12-2003 |
LOL again, Leigh Anne! Within Adventism, I think our Southern Californian status would be considered "counterfeit grace"...before we left the church I remember thinking I had become what I formerly disdained: a Southern California Adventist. Colleen | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 661 Registered: 6-2006 |
Well Colleen, again I ask - where is the hope??!! hehe! I laugh because my dear SDA family here in So-Cal can't even stand their own church! It's a darned if you do, darned if you don't situation. As Dr. Phil would say "How is that workin' for you?" Leigh Anne | ||
| 91steps Registered user Username: 91steps Post Number: 162 Registered: 8-2005  |
Jay_g, the World HQ of the SDA church, the GC, keeps strict records of how many are baptized and how many leave. Believe you me, those numbers you wrote are VERY low, they will not remove a members name from the books unless you really press them. Case in point, I had to threaten to sue the church I was a member of to get them to take my name off the books. |
