| Author | Message | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 327 Registered: 11-2005 |
I happened to stumble across this article from a 2000 Adventist Review article by Richard W.O’Ffill. (http://www.adventistreview.org/2000-1541/story2.html)
Poof! Adventism to the rescue. And this really makes my head spin ...
Bring me a basin so I can threw up ...
It's odd that God "forgot" to include this "special message" in his Holy Word, the Bible. Gilbert Jorgensen | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 247 Registered: 5-2007 |
I just went to that link and read the article, Gilbert. Eeeeeeeeeeeeew!!! Give me a basin to retch in also. The Adventists really do think they have ALL the answers. It's quite arrogant, isn't it? | ||
| Doug222 Registered user Username: Doug222 Post Number: 585 Registered: 3-2001 |
After all the double speak, doesn't he really end up saying that you do have to be Adventist? He said:
Why is it not an option? Because, God has used the Seventh-Day Adventist Church to call His people out of error. If being a Methodist, or Baptist (why do they always pick on the Baptists) or generic Evangelical is not an option, then the "message" (not the institution) of Adventism has to be the {only} way.One can no more be saved by not being an Adventis than a gentil could be saved without becoming a Jew under the Old Covenant. He tried to be politically correct and dance around the subject, but my take on the article is that he absolutely said that you must be Adventist (or at least accept the unique teachings of the Adventist Church) in order to be saved. Adventistims love affair with itself was probably one of the things I began to hate most as God called me out. Doug | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 248 Registered: 5-2007 |
You are exactly right, Doug. I used to HATE how I would hear in Adventist sermons that they are God's "remanant", God's "chosen people". It is arrogance that is sickening. Would they even think of considering that it's just possible they might be the ones that are deceived? WHY is it there is a group like this for Former Adventists, but not one for former Baptists, Lutherans, Methodists, Presbyterians, etc. Doesn't THAT alone speak for itself? | ||
| Cloudy Registered user Username: Cloudy Post Number: 4 Registered: 7-2007 |
In a recent Adventist Review there was an article by the GC president announcing that SDA theologians are talking to leaders of the following organizations: World Evangelical Alliance(WEA), Presbyterian Church USA (PCUSA), and the Salvation Army. It was vaguely stated that these talks were to increase understanding and clarify positions. He also stated that talks would also be going on with non Christian groups in other countries. I can understand trying to improve relations in areas where there is persecution, but I am unclear about what the purpose is in talking with the 1st 3 groups mentioned. He also mentioned that they would be updating SDA members with the results of these talks. I am dubious about this since I don't recall ever hearing about the previous talks. In googling for more information, I found that reps from the SDA church met with the Lutheran World Federation several times from 1994-8. The result of these talks was a paper published in 2000 which both sides were reviewing. They met once with the WEA in 2006 and are meeting again at AU in 8/2007. They also met once with the PCUSA in 2006 and are meeting again in 8/2007. Concerning the Salvation Army I could only found that they had met in 2004-5 and could find no plans for future talks. It confounds me why they should meet with these groups when they feel that being generally evangelical or presbyterian is not an option. What exactly is the point? And what of the previous talks with the Lutherans? I am curious how they portray the SDA doctrine theologian to theologian. | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 329 Registered: 11-2005 |
Doug -- I could not agree more!
This article epitimizes how "hung up" Adventism is on itself. Gilbert Jorgensen | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 330 Registered: 11-2005 |
Reb -- Great statement!
It seems to be a trait of cults to be very patronizing and put everyone else down. Meanwhile the rest of the Body of Christ rejoices when another member of the Body of Christ is successful. It is so exciting to be working as a team for the finishing of God's work. At the Baptist Church that I attend they are excited for all the other Christian churches, and very supportive. When I attended the Evangelical Free Church they felt the same. It is Adventism that is so stuck up on itself that it is sickening. I grew up as a faculty kid at Andrews University, and our viewpoint from the "Land of Zion" was that it was our responsibility to convert all the "heathen" around us. Come to think of it, that is the same attitude that Doug Batchelor, et. al, exude as well. Gilbert Jorgensen | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 251 Registered: 5-2007 |
Exactly, same here. Now that I am a Baptist I really feel like I am a part of the Body of Christ. And even though I am a Seventh Day Baptist we consider "Sunday" Baptists and all other Christians who have the Gospel 100% our Brothers and Sisters in Christ, we don't judge them over a day like the Adventists do. It so refershing not to hear the Sunday Law stuff about being hunted down by other Christians anymore. BTW, Gilbert I am leaning even more toward your suggestion on another thread to only attend SDB church exclusively and not SDA anymore. I just can't stand the SDA sermons and I just don't want to hear them anymore, period. | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 331 Registered: 11-2005 |
Cloudy -- Good points. I can't wait to see them come out with a "Joint Statement of Understanding on 1844 and the Investigative Judgement". Or for that matter, how about a "Joint Statement on Ellen White"? Adventism and Christianity are light years apart. They promote totally different gospels. By their own admission, they are like oil and water. Rick Langer's excellent article in the recent Proclamation points out how they come from different theological "trunks". Their branches may "rub together", but that is about it. Adventism is like evolution and the "big bang" theory. Poof! They came out of nowhere, and God singled them out to lead everyone else out of spiritual darkness. The Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses say the same thing. NOT! I seriously think Adventism will self-implode, or fracture, over the next two generations. The laity is waking up. Even Jud Lake noted that fact at the EG White Symposium. The Historic Adventists are getting their "Time of Trouble" bunkers ready, and monitoring any seismic shifts in Adventism's theological underpinnings. Ellen White, and not the Bible, is their anchor. And there are even more critics within, than without. A continued clinging to Ellen White is what will tear them apart. O'Fill's article is a perfect example of what is so sickening about Adventism's self-righteous attitude. On a positive note, I am so thankful that the Holy Spirit has better things in store for each of us. Praise God for His infinite mercy, and unfathomable love! Gilbert Jorgensen | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 252 Registered: 5-2007 |
I hope Adventism does self-implode. I would LOVE to see it take its rightful place in the dustbin of history. And I would LOVE to see all the Adventists find the true Gospel. | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 332 Registered: 11-2005 |
Reb -- The Holy Spirit will lead you. Closing the door on Adventism was one of the best things I ever did. I remember a SDA pastor giving a sermon about early Christianity leading to Catholicism, then Martin Luther and the reformation, and on to the Seventh-day Adventists. He was trying to create some kind of linkage, and he said that each time it was like "going through a carwash" and coming out the other side cleaner than before. Of course in his anology Adventism was supposed to be the final state of nirvana after the "last" carwash. Those of us who frequent these forums know that God has so much more in store for each of us. Never have I felt such sweet freedom from the shackles of my own imperfections, as when I went through this latest carwash that removed the "mud of Adventism" and set my eyes on Jesus wonderful face! And I will NEVER look back. It is so wonderful to be a child of God, and to be at unity with the rest of the Body of Christ! The day I stopped attending the local Seventh-day Adventist Church I felt as excited as the day I was baptized. Finally -- I had taken a stand. Finally I was free to follow my conscience and the promptings of the Holy Spirit. Life since has been like a "little heaven on earth". The high point of each week is the time I (and for about the past eight weeks my wife, praise God!) meet with fellow Christians to praise God for his matchless love. Gilbert Jorgensen | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 82 Registered: 5-2007  |
Cloudy, You seem to have "hit the trail" with your feet already in the "running mode". Again, welcome! I am looking forward to what else you have to share. One of the reasons I have joined this forum is the desire to see the SDA & EGW mindset implode in upon itself. But, in such a way that everybody on that sinking vessel is able to abandon ship on a seaworthy life raft (the gospel messege) piloted by Jesus Christ himself. Ephesians chapter six reminds us who our true enemy is, so let us remember to love those in bondage. Phil | ||
| Stevendi Registered user Username: Stevendi Post Number: 155 Registered: 10-2006 |
In the last days, men will be lovers of themselves (including their religion). Before I return, many will claim to be Me, your Saviour. Jesus (Message edited by stevendi on July 03, 2007) | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 980 Registered: 9-2006  |
I want to thank ye kindly Gilbert fer the link to shyster, Uh, I mean, Mr.Richard W. Awful’s message. Ne’er would I have known that the Adventist were Gods chosen to “flesh out” his message to us po Baptist, Pentecostals, Methodist and generic Evangelicals, although I don’t know egg zacly what a geeneric eevangelical is apparently Mr. whiffle does and that is good enough fer me. We can Probably find it in Hezekiah 1:18, and yes I loudly applauded when everyone said fer Mr. Sniffle just go ahead on and read’er anyway, in fact I applauded the loudest, I clapped and clapped till they told to me to “sit down and shet up River”, so Mr. Waffle could speak. Well Sir, speak he did, laws yes, he tole about how we’uns is goin to keep the Christians saved, said it wuz our job to keep’em saved. Now when Pastor Awful said them words I jest had to get up an go ta clappin agin till they every one said at wonct “Sit down and shet up River!” Now that Mr. Snuffle really got me agoin when he says right out, sez he, 1. “Is it true that you have to be a Seventh-day Adventist to receive salvation and become a child of God?” (The congregation naturally responds with a hearty “No.”) 2. “Do only Seventh-day Adventists have their names written in the book of life?” (Again, the response is a loud negative.) 3. “Are there true born-again children of God in other denominations?” (The answer is always a resounding “Yes.”) I tell you the response was jest deefin’in an I jest had to git up an go ta clappin agin, yep, you guessed it “Sit ……….. … ……. River!!”. When it got to quiten’in down a bit Mr. Sniffle went right on a talk’in as if I warn’t there to clap. I tell you thet audience got as still as a buncha Pentecostals at a Catholic convention. Now you could jest feel the love a flow’in out of there to us tongue talk’in Pentecostals, and shout’in Baptist en sprinklin Method-dist and right then’in there they set their mind on finishin the job a save’in us an ta keep us sqware dab on tha right road. Mr. Awful finished up by deeclar’in right out that we got no time ta be go’in back to be’in no Baptist er tongue talking Pentecostals en sich. I lowwed I was goin to ask him when hed they ever spoken in tongues so’s they could go back ta do’in thet in tha first place, but when I stood up ta ask him, Yep, you guessed it, everyone tole me ta jest “Sit down and shet up River!!” They indicated thet Colleen Tinkers light had went plum slap dab out, but they would be glad ta light her up agin, so I tole them I would give her tha message thet they was gonna save us all. I lowwed as I had my doubts about thet back slide’en Tinker bunch but they assured me they could “git’er done’, and afore they could yell at me ta “Sit down an shet up River!!” I jest went ta clappin en clapin I jest couldn’t help maself. Now yaw’ll know whure all thet lights acomin from an you coulda heerd me clappin fer a mile an a half. Bout that time somebody let loose a possum in there and thet cleared the place out like a Adventist rush fer the turnip patch, yes sir!! The women all thought it wuz a big rat and tha men wuzz a chasin the women tryin ta gittum skin it an cook it. Laws I tell you folks I nev’ern all my born days seen sich do’ins in all my life. Even ol Gran Pap lowws it wuz sumpthin with tha telling of it, an his belly goes ta shakin like a bunch a paint salesman in a sellin contest. Yer Friend, River. | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 83 Registered: 5-2007 |
Now now River, I think you may have stretched a point or two. Who ever would believe a "buncha Pentecostals at a Catholic convention" would be quite for anything. Also, my dog can tell the differance between a rat and a possum. Are you trying to tell me my dog is smarter that those __ __ at that meeting? Phil | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 335 Registered: 11-2005 |
River -- I had to laugh and laugh as I read your post! With a little bit of additional research I was able to dig up the special message that Adventism has to offer: http://www.dennispriebe.com/documents/What%20is%20the%20Final%20Atonement.html
I had no idea that Satan controls second coming of Christ! No wonder they need Ellen White! They sure won't find this anywhere in the Bible. I am so glad God set me free. Gilbert Jorgensen | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 253 Registered: 5-2007 |
Gilbert, this baloney is exactly why I left Adventism. Isn't this essentially blashpemy to say that God's name needs to be cleared, that God has to answer to Satan? Seems like this gives Satan quite a bit of power. So are they calling Christ a liar when He said as he drew His last breath on the cross, "It is Finished". Aren't they counterdicting the Bible which says we cannot be without sin UNTIL we get to heaven? The Bible says, we CAN'T keep the Law perfectly and they would dare to say we can? I think I am getting nauseous. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6196 Registered: 12-2003  |
River, you're just too funny!! Still chucklin'... Cloudy, I've also pondered those meetings. I know that there is a movement within Christianity that involves several egvangelical leaders meeting with leaders of the Catholic church and others to find their common ground. I'm not sure of the complete agenda and goals of these meetings, but they have to do with creating a "united" Christian front in the world based on common beliefs. Many evangelicals are concerned about this trend because there are some really significant differences in the understanding of salvation, church practice, etc. As John MacArthur has said, the Reformation happened for a reason. The "emergent" movement, as well, is seeking to find common causes among religions and celebrate God as we understand Him. Adventism is also involved in these ecumenical "outreaches". One specific Adventist action done this year is the establishment of a "faith community" in New York led by an SDA pastor from So California. He is inviting all people who embrace "monotheism"--Jews, Christians, and Muslims--to join this faith community and find their common ground, experience Christ in their group, learn from each other, etc. Partially in reaction to the more and more inclusive attitude spreading throughout Christianity, a group called the Gospel Coalition has met for a couple of years and has just this late spring released an evangelical statement of belief. This gospel coalition includes something like 25 evangelical pastors including John Piper, D.A. Carson, our pastor Gary Inrig, and others whom I don't know. They have met to affirm the Biblical gospel and make a public declaration of what it is and what a true Christian believes. I haven't seen this statement yet...I'm not sure whether or not it's online yet. I'll do some research again, and when I find the statement, I'll link to it. In summary—the Adventist church is not opposed to appearing "mainstream". As long as "mainstream" is "inclusive" and not "only one way", Adventism can participate. They can make public statements about their beliefs that sound orthodox, but they can hide the reality. What I believe is happening is what Jesus foretold: those who embrace Jesus Christ alone as the only way to the Father, accpeting Him by faith alone through grace alone, will eventually be politically and spiritually marginalized in the world. Adventism is extremely exclusive when you know its true beliefs. But their fascination with religious liberty makes them highly "inclusive" of others on the exterior. What they don't like--just as other false religions don't like it--is having an exclusive soteriology. So, I don't know much about the SDA meetings, but I see Adventism joining hands with what we formerly would have called the "persecuting power"! Colleen | ||
| Doug222 Registered user Username: Doug222 Post Number: 588 Registered: 3-2001 |
Gilbert, Please tell me this guy has an extreme view. I am finding it hard to believe that` I could not have seen through such ludicrocy. Doug | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 985 Registered: 9-2006 |
Arrg Doug, I had to go in and take the tin foil off my rabbit ears when I tuned in to that fellers Mr. Dennis Fleabe's Website, I tell you it about done us in around here, I had to go out and feed them hounds a biscuit they set off sich a pitiful yawlin when I opened that website. Its like Phil says, dogs is smart about sich things. My dogs cain't open a can ,but they can sure tell you when somebody else has opened one and they let me know right quick that websites like that hurts their ears and sets them to ichin somthin awful. One a my hounds even complained that it give him a case of distemper. River |
