| Author | Message | ||
| Laurie Registered user Username: Laurie Post Number: 25 Registered: 6-2007 |
Yes - I agree. Arguing with parents is not the answer. When I finally told my mom I was leaving the SDA church she was very angry. We had many many heated arguments. They were all by phone, as we live in different states. They were terrible, lasting hours and hours, day after day. I finally realized it was pointless. I could point out page after page of quotes by ellen and my mom would only say "the 10 commandments were written with the finger of God and you better obey". The arguing was only damaging our relationship. Out of respect for her, I stopped. It has not been discussed on any level for months. My dad has never said a peep about it. Not by phone or in person. Not a peep. Out of respect for him, I will not bring it up with him. They are getting up in years and it would be tragic for my last conversation with them to be an argument. I will never change their mind and I won't try anymore. They are actually coming for a visit this weekend. It will be interesting. I won't let this time with them be ruined with arguing about anything. My dad has been an elder in the SDA church for over 30 years. I love and respect him and will not insult his beliefs. My mom can infuriate me with her arguments, but the same goes for her. I love her and will not argue anymore with her. Laurie | ||
| Luzisbornagain Registered user Username: Luzisbornagain Post Number: 14 Registered: 7-2007 |
well, to answer flyinglady. She's planning on smoking some weed, but she said she's doing that outside, so that's out of the question, but if she does do it outside if caught she might go to jail. So I will advise her not to do that because where I live is in a rural town and cops hide out a lot in my area. I haven't spoken to her yet, but when I do I'll set some boundaries whether she likes it or not. Thanks a lot flyinglady for the prayers and everyone else, too. Really appreciate. The power of a Christian is in prayer. Reb and Laurie I can completly relate to your stories. I haven't told my dad either and don't plan on to. I don't ever want to discuss religion again with my mom either. Her mind is deeply made up to stay unfortunately. She says the same thing about the bible. All of my arguments with my mom have been over the phone. | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 1903 Registered: 10-2004  |
Luzisbornagain, welcome to the forum! I love your screenname.  I'm praying for you and also for your family, that they will be saved and set free completely in Jesus Christ, from the demonic hold of EGW/SDA that they are under. It definitely is a very real spiritual bondage. But Jesus is infinitely more powerful and can set people free, as He has done with us! Jeremy (Message edited by Jeremy on July 04, 2007) | ||
| Luzisbornagain Registered user Username: Luzisbornagain Post Number: 15 Registered: 7-2007 |
Amen to all of your comments. May the Lord hear all of our prayers. Amen and Hallelujah for a living all powerful Savior. Jesus when He resurrected the Bible says He received all power, so that means the enemy has none. Hallelujah praise the Lord for His love endures forever. | ||
| Gcfrankie Registered user Username: Gcfrankie Post Number: 18 Registered: 1-2007 |
Welcome Luzisbornagain, I am also fairly new out of SDA. I had the opposite problem and that is I was the only one to become SDA and my mom tried to get me out of it many eons ago that we finally came to an aggreement not to discuss religion but to respect each others beliefs. I wish she would have pointed out Colossians 2:18, 'Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angles, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by the fleshly mind.' Paul was a wise man through the Holy Spirit. My parents are deceased now and I wish they were alive to see my coming out but I am self-assured they are in heaven with Jesus looking down on my progress. May God bless you as you visit with your sister and that He will put a dent in her heart with your love that you have for her and she will see how happy you are resting in Jesus's love and will want that same calm assurance she sees in you. I am praying with tears running for you and your family as I know the heart break you are going through but isn't it awsome that we do have Jesus to lean on who is stronger and wiser than we are. Thank-you God for your Son. Gail | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 345 Registered: 11-2005 |
Luz said
I presume you already know this but it is easy to identify the smell of a burning joint hundreds of feet away, and then of course it is also on a person's breath as well. Perhaps in the 60's she could have gotten away with it, but if you are remotely close to anyone else I would insist that she not do it at your place! Even if she has it on her person in your car that is not good. Tell her in no uncertain terms to keep it at home. She should know better. I know. I grew up in the drug culture at (Saint) Andrews University. Our attitude was that we were all hopelessly spiritually lost anyway, so what difference did it make. Gilbert Jorgensen | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 991 Registered: 9-2006  |
You mean you smoked that wacky backy Gilbert, I never would a thought it. | ||
| Stevendi Registered user Username: Stevendi Post Number: 159 Registered: 10-2006 |
Luz, Tell her to try cookies. steve | ||
| Gracehound Registered user Username: Gracehound Post Number: 31 Registered: 7-2002 |
"She's now lost in the world, has tattoos, piercings, she's an alcoholic, smokes weed and now all of a sudden is a lesbian. I want to witness to her but she told my roommate she wants nothing to do with God or religion. What can I do while she's here?" I'm a former adventist, I have a tattoo, I have piercings, I have an occasional drink, I occasionally smoke weed and after all of these years I have finally come out of the closet as a lesbian. I didn't 'suddenly' become a lesbian, I always was...I just finally admitted it to myself and became cofortable in my own skin. (I'm not here to debate religious views on homosexuality, it's just a part of who I am and part of the experience I offer here.) First and foremost, none of those things mean that I am 'lost' in the world. None of those things mean that your sister is lost either. In fact, all of those things have been used by God to bring me closer to him. I know of a few active other posters on this board that also drink and smoke weed occasionally. That in no way makes them less children of God and secure in Him. There is a lot of talk on this board about taking God out of a box...this is a good time to practice unboxing God. See, I was so incredibly angry at God. I was raised by an SDA bible teacher and an extremely narcissistic mentally ill mother. I was bitter and angry for most of my life. I did exactly what I was supposed to do, grew up, got married and lived the expected life that was handed by my parents. But I was lying to myself and my husband and everyone around me. I covered myself with self destructive actions hoping subconsciously to destroy myself because I was not worthy in my own mind. My path since I left has been amazing! At every step God has guided my path. Honestly, I still wait for the other shoe to drop and he just keeps blessing me. Sometimes I think he showers blessings on me just to showboat and prove in an over-the-top manner that his nature is loving and generous. He truly is a loving father. He has slowly taken my pain and turned it to joy. He has taken my anger and turned it into rejoycing. He has taken my fear and turned it to courage. He has taken my belief in a judgmental God and proven over and over that he is trustworthy and loving and in my corner no matter what. 3.5 years ago I stood against a barbed wire fence and poured out my heart to the Lord as I stood on the edge of the decision to leave my ex and cried out because I was hopelessly stuck and unable to make a decision. It was the only time in my life that I know that I heard the voice of God. His voice was silent but spoke to my heart. What he said was 'You are my child and there is nothing you can do that will take you outside of my love. I can not make this choice for you, but you are my child no matter what.' My journey from that moment forward has been a whirlwind but I would not change one thing or one choice. God will reach your sister in whatever way he chooses to reach her. It is not for you to judge outwardly if she is already his child. Just because a teenager goes through a rebelious period does not mean that they cease being the child of their parent. Even during my 'rebelious' period as a teenager, in the long run I just wanted someone to hear me and love me unconditionally. He reached me, calmed my heart, quelled my anger and I have...for the very first time...assurance that I am indeed his child and secure in the knowledge that there is nothing I can do that will take me outside of his love. You asked what you can do while she is there. Trust me on this...love her, accept her, enjoy her and DO NOT judge her. You are not her judge, you do not know her heart and you do not know God's plan for her life. There are too many people out there judging her already. Don't get in line to be just another person pointing out your version of how her life should look. We are put on this earth to love...so just love. | ||
| Luzisbornagain Registered user Username: Luzisbornagain Post Number: 17 Registered: 7-2007 |
Ok, Gracehound. I understand that God is love and all, but don't forget God is a God of justice. I myself have been delivered out of homosexuality. I used to like girls. In fact I was in a homosexual relationship with my best friend who I grew up with who was also adventist. When I gave my heart to Jesus, I became new. I no longer had those same sex desires and He delivered me from that. I'm not saying that I'm going to judge my sister, but Jesus said to judge rightously. In fact He teaches us how to judge. It says in John 7:24 "Do not judge according to appearance, BUT JUDGE WITH RIGHTEOUS JUDGMENT." By the fruits of the tree you know what kind of tree it is by the fruits it bears. Matthew 7:15-16 "Beware the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly they are ravenous wolves, you will know them BY THEIR FRUITS...” Here Jesus Himself is making a judgment of someone then expresses that we will need to make judgments ourselves.The bottom line is that we, as Christians, are expected to exercise discernment and righteously judge. Ephesians 5:11 Have nothing to do with fruitless deeds of darkness but RATHER EXPOSE THEM. And gracehound my friend, God tells us in His word, that the sin of rebellion is like the sin of witchcraft. 1 Samuel 15:23 says " For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king." I love my sister, and when you see someone in trouble you tell them the truth out of love and respect. For you to tell me not to judge my sister rightously, is to tell me not to love her. I know it's not up to me to save her, but I have the responsibility of being an ambassador of God and am part of His ministry of reconciliation to bring His lost sheep to Him and of course He takes care of the rest. The harvest is plenty, but few are willing to work in it. Yes, you can be lost in the world when you're in sin you're seperated from God and need Jesus Christ in your life to bring you to Him. Jesus is the only way. Romans 6:23 "23For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Death means seperation. And when we're in sin our spirit is dead therefore seperating us from the Lord. Isaiah 59: 1, 2 says "1Behold, the LORD's hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear: 2But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear." Homosexuality is a sin. Without Jesus Christ our penalty is to die and be cast into hell. 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 says "Don’t you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who indulge in SEXUAL SIN, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or PRACTICE HOMOSEXUALITY, 10 or are thieves, or greedy people, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat people—NONE OF THESE WILL INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD. 11 SOME OF YOU WERE ONCE LIKE THAT. BUT YOU WERE CLEANSED; YOU WERE MADE HOLY; you were made right with God by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. You see gracehound. When you call on the name of Jesus Christ with all your heart by the Spirit of God you will be made cleansed and made holy. You'll be set free from homosexuality, adultery whatever it is nothing is impossible for Jesus Christ to wash away because He poured out His blood for all of our sins. You no longer have to be seperated from God and feel hopeless ready to kill yourself, because Jesus Christ payed the penalty that you were supposed to pay for you. Amen and Hallelujah that i can testify to that. I pray that you come to Christ today and set you free from being bound by the death of sin and be reunited with your savior. When you're born again you no longer are the person you once were. 2 Corinthians 5:17 says " This means that anyone who belongs to Christ has become a new person. The old life is gone; a new life has begun!" NLT Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. KJV Another thing about weed, drugs and alcohol any substance that you abuse to produce another state of conciousness opens you up to demonic forces taking control over you. Some folks who have had an LSD trip admitted that something came over them and took control of them and couldn't control themselves. Pharmakeia is a Greek word found in the New Testament that means medication, pharmacy, magic, sorcery and witchcraft. Its root is pharmakon which refers to a druggist, pharmacist, poisoner, magician or sorcerer. God clearly states that Pharmakeia (the use of drugs) is a sin in Galatians 5:19-20a; "The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft" (Pharmakeia). The popularity and use of marijuana has increased within the past few years. This pattern of today's intensified drug use was prophesied almost two thousand years ago in the book of Revelation. There are three passages in this book that speak directly about Pharmakeia, Revelation 9:21; 21:8; and 22:15. These three verses tell of the sinfulness of drug use, the non repenting hearts of the users, the state of the end times, the separation of drug users from the kingdom of God, and their second death by placement into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. We conclude that God is very serious about how he deals with this sin. Marijuana is a hallucinogenic (Funk and Wagnalls 445). This is one of the reasons why using it is sorcery and witchcraft. With the use of drugs, you are opening yourself up to all sorts of spiritual attacks and seducing spirits. Mind altering drugs are used in witchcraft to alter your reality. This can be very dangerous. This is why God calls us to be sober and avoid attacks from Satan (I Peter 5:8). This implies that if we are high, we cannot avoid attacks from the evil one. In conclusion, marijuana is not a biblical sacrament that we must take in order to become closer to God. In fact, the Bible speaks against marijuana because it is a sin. Marijuana is clearly a stronghold that Satan has used on this world for many generations. God can deliver and heal one from an addiction to marijuana. The truth can be found only through faithfully studying the word of God. "The grass withers and the flowers fall, but the word of our God stands forever." (Isaiah 40:8) (Message edited by luzisbornagain on July 05, 2007) | ||
| Luzisbornagain Registered user Username: Luzisbornagain Post Number: 18 Registered: 7-2007 |
About Tattoos and piercings http://www.new-life.net/faq022.htm What does the Bible say about tattoos and piercings? Q: What does the Bible say about tattoos? or men getting piercings? A: Thanks for asking. Here are my thoughts on the subject. Old Testament The only Scripture specifically mentioning "tattoos" is found in the Old Testament: "Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves. I am the LORD." Leviticus 19:28. Tattoos were used extensively by the other nations for pagan worship, decoration, and to mark a slave. Based on Leviticus 19:28, tattoos are still forbidden among Jews today (by both Orthodox, Conservative, and Reformed Judaism). There is even one rabbinic text prohibiting the burial of bodies with tattoos. (However this prohibition is very rarely enforced - although some traditional Jewish mortuaries and cemeteries will not officiate at a funeral of one who is tattooed.) The only Scripture that I know of on decorative "piercing" (as opposed to piercing by a sword or nails) is Exodus 21:6. This is a passage on piercing the ear lobe of a person to mark him as a slave. In the Jewish nation, slaves and pagans were the only ones with pierced ears. When Jacob's family wanted to set themselves apart to the Lord, earrings are specifically mentioned as items that they put off (Genesis 35:4). Apparently any disfigurement or cutting of the body was not allowed for His "holy people" (see Leviticus 21:5; Deuteronomy 14:1-2; 1 Kings 18:28). The only exception to this was circumcision (Genesis 17:11-13). In modern day Judaism, it has become permissible for women in the West to pierce their ears because it is a common practice among the majority non-Jewish population. Jewish men, however, still may not pierce their ears. In the Jewish writings on this subject, the rabbis refer to two concepts: (1) We were "made in the image of God." Even though God is spirit, somehow our bodies reflect God's glory. (2) Our bodies are a good gift from God - complete as is. As one Jewish rabbi put it, "No matter how well considered, a tattoo is the result of a short-term decision to decorate the body forever. What hubris to imagine that any of us, as individuals, can improve artistically on the original design of the Lord." New Testament So if you were a Jew living in the Old Testament (or today), it would be clear that God forbids tattoos and piercings. However, Christians don't obey all the Old Testament laws. As a matter of fact, some of them are specifically set aside by Jesus and the apostles. Are tattoos and piercings still forbidden or are they now acceptable for a Christian? For more on the subject of taking Old Testament commandments and relating them to the present day, I recommend that you read How to Apply the Old Testament to Today. But let's ask, "Do the Old Testament verses line up with any basic principle found in the New Testament?" The answer is "yes." There is the New Testament concept that our bodies are not our own. This teaching is found specifically in 1 Corinthians 6:12-20: "The body is meant for the Lord" 1 Corinthians 6:13. "Your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit." 1 Corinthians 6:19. "You are not your own; you were bought at a price." 1 Corinthians 6:19. "Honor God with your body." 1 Corinthians 6:20. The key principle here seems to be that our bodies belong to God, not ourselves, and that we are to use them in ways that honor and reflect God's glory. Conclusion Now let's use deduction to arrive at a conclusion. Based upon these facts (the Old Testament commands against tattoos and piercings AND the New Testament principle that my body is not my own) I would reason that God would rather I leave my body free from self-inflicted marks and cuts. We were made in "the image of God." Apparently He thinks no further pictorial adornment is needed. Could I be wrong about this? Sure, it's a deduction, rather than a specific New Testament command. But I think the key point that is clear in the New Testament is that our bodies aren't really ours to decorate as we see fit. Therefore, I tell people to ask God whether He wants His body tattooed or pierced. If you get a "yes" answer, then I won't condemn you. Just make sure it is God speaking to you and not you speaking to yourself in the name of God. A Final Word Nothing in what I've said is meant to imply any disapproval against those who come to Christ with tattoos, cuttings, or piercings. We come to Jesus just as we are - with all our imperfections in spirit and body. There are many people in our church who have tattoos and scars from their previous life before Christ. Some of these tattoos are even pagan or demonic. Some of the cuttings are from suicide attempts. No one looks down on these brothers or sisters or judges them. We are all flawed sinners. That is why we need Jesus. Some of us bear our markings outwardly. Some of us bear them more inwardly. | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 11 Registered: 7-2007 |
Luzisbornagain, what you said about pharmakeia reminds me of what the pastor of the non-denominational church where I've been going to church the last few months, said a few Sundays ago. He was giving a series on Galatians and on this particular Sunday was covering Galatians 5:17- to about the 23rd or 24th verse. People in his day were using pharmakeia to practice sorcery, to use "magic" to do demonic things - something like that. It was really interesting and a bit scary. Dianne | ||
| Gracehound Registered user Username: Gracehound Post Number: 32 Registered: 7-2002 |
Let me restate something that appears to have gotten lost in translation. See above: "(I'm not here to debate religious views on homosexuality, it's just a part of who I am and part of the experience I offer here.)" You said "I pray that you come to Christ today and set you free from being bound by the death of sin and be reunited with your savior." I'm sorry if my post in someway inferred that I might be nervous about my salvation or my relationship with Christ. Let me correct that misconception. While you may feel free to pray for me (can we really have too many people praying for us?), understand that you may be praying for the wrong thing. I AM in Christ today, I HAVE been set free and I WILL be reuinted with my savior. Of that I have NO doubt. While I appreciate your right to your opinions, I also read your words and find myself wondering how approaching your sister with texts, condemnation and judgment will ever accomplish anything other fulfilling your own agenda to feel better about your "responsibility of being an ambassador of God and...part of His ministry of reconciliation to bring His lost sheep to Him." Your response to me certainly doesn't invite me into dialogue or make me feel as if I am an equal in the body of Christ. Quite honestly, it feels judgmental, condemnatory and self-righteous. While you are welcome to your opinions, I certainly wouldn't choose to spend time with you face-to-face and I am just a stranger right next door or thousands of miles away. I feel honest pity for your sister in this moment. All I can say is good luck with your that approach. One of my favorite bumper stickers is a statement from Ghandi. He says "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians, they are so unlike your Christ." Too often it is easy to look at everyone else pointing out where we feel they should change instead of standing in front of a mirror asking instead what our example would do. | ||
| Luzisbornagain Registered user Username: Luzisbornagain Post Number: 19 Registered: 7-2007 |
Gracehound honestly speaking you can't be born again christian and be a homosexual. God condemned it and it's an abomination unto Him. The way you represent Christ is like the world does which the world's God is a God that's all about love and no judgement. Im sorry that is not God. God is love but in the same token He's a God of justice. It's not a message of condemnation but a message of truth. If you're in Christ, you can't still be a homosexual. The truth is you have to be born again in order to enter in God's kingdom and part of that growth is basing your life on His Word. His word speaks against homosexuality, adultery, fornication, murder, idolatry, etc. which are all sins. Gracehound its sad that you have convinced yourself that you're saved when you're still disobeying God's Word. I'm sorry any self proclaiming christian who says they follow the Lord yet they're still doing what He commanded against is not a child of God, but a child of iniquity. I'm not here to point fingers, but as a christian out of love I'm telling you the truth. God is pleased with obedience instead of sacrifice. I dread when you present to Christ and not do His will and He'll tell you I never knew you. Matthew 7:21-23 states "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that DOETH THE WILL OF MY FATHER which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I NEVER KNEW YOU: DEPART FROM ME : YE THAT WORK INIQUITY." You do not heed to His obedience in continuing in homosexuality, smoking and alcohol, therefore you're seperated from Him and making up an image of God that is all loving and not of justice you fall also into idolatry. Obedience before sacrifice. Just like Saul disobeyed God's command to plunder Isreal's enemies and instead He gave Him a sacrifice of the stuff Saul thought it was good. 1 Samuel 15:22-23" And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams. 23For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king." So when you hear sound doctrine coming straight from the Word of God you do not accept it because what I'm saying seems offensive. Guess what, when Jesus was on this earth He offended the Jewish leaders, but He was speaking in truth and in love. The truth is we're all sinners and fall short of God's glory. The wages of sin is death, therefore we all deserve to die and go to hell. God knew this, therefore He became one of us to take our place and die for us and resurrected as a living sacrifice so that those that believe in Him will have eternal life. Once you're in Him, all you wanna do is do His will and obey Him because you love Him. God's word is like a double edge sword which cuts to the depths of your soul, so it will hurt to hear the truth. You might feel you won't approach me is because I will speak to you using God's word the way it's written and it will offend you. Hebrews 4:12 says "For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." The truth is never popular and the truth hurts. So God's word is not here to please people or sound soothing all the time it is to correct, reproof, rebuke and expose to cause change in growth in our lives. 2 Timothy 3:16 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" But Paul warned in the last days many shall fall away from the faith and men will be lovers of self and pleasure before lovers of God and will not endure sound doctrine, but will listen to "gospels" that will sooth their itching ears according to what they want to believe. It says in I Tim. 3:1-5, “This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.” The reason why I can testify about the sin of homosexuality is that I lived it and as a testimony because of Jesus Christ He delivered me out of it and therefore I can be a testimony to my sister. I know she's gonna get upset because the truth is never easy to hear. I'm not doing it out of hate in fact it is out of love. And that's why God warns us in His word about sin and condemnation out of love, because He doesn't not want to see us get destroyed. Amen to a loving and merciful God for that. In fact if someone murdered one of your family members and the judge for the case didn't sentence the murderer be punished for what he did, would he be a good judge? No who wouldn't the same thing with God. God will bring to justice those that didn't accept Him as His savior and didn't truly repent, they have to pay for their own sins because they didn't accept Christ who was the only way out to be saved from sin. So God won't punish people because He wants to, it's because they chose to. And if you fail to see that, I pray that you do humble yourself and realize your error. | ||
| Luzisbornagain Registered user Username: Luzisbornagain Post Number: 21 Registered: 7-2007 |
2 Timothy 4:3-4, Paul wrote, "...the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables." | ||
| Marysroses Registered user Username: Marysroses Post Number: 63 Registered: 4-2007 |
Just a comment not directed to any certain position or person in this thread.... Some of my personal feelings about relating to other Christians who don't share all my views. Sometimes when I'm feeling misunderstood or judged I want to go in with guns blazing (spiritual only!) and bibles thumping and set things right. Sometimes when I read someone stating a belief I simply cannot agree with, I want to pull out my research and show them where (I FEEL) they are in error. Those are hard things to let go of, sometimes we are so sure of what we know. Sometimes truth does hurt, and people need to be lovingly told a hurtful truth. Such a thing should never be undertaken impulsively. A lot of prayer and self examination should precede any such action. There are so many reasons to rush in carelessly. We want to help but we don't know enough about the person to do it positively. Sometimes people want to justify their own beliefs by convincing others to agree with them. Sometimes people think they know the truth and convince others to agree with them, only to be horrified later that they've changed their own views. I certainly don't take the view that there is no such thing as sin, that whatever you do its all relative, just love one another and its all ok as long as you follow your own conscience. So what do you do? Only God knows our hearts. If someone says they know Jesus I don't consider it my place to contradict them. I'm also at a place I've decided to let God convict others of the sin in their lives, without condoning or endorsing what I see as sin. (children excepted, sorry Emily, mom still makes the rules). When I'm in a position of teaching, such as when I'm teaching children to examine their conscience and how to form a good one, I'm clear and answer questions about what I believe to be sin without equivocation, appropriate to their ages of course. When its my SDA (but not practicing) brother with the multiple piercings and tattoos, among other much more heinous habits, he's my brother and I love him. I don't inject my opinions of his life style unless he opens the conversation. I have seen "The Bible says.... " preface some very cruel and hard statements, and used to inflict a great deal of emotional pain. A lot of it needlessly. How very often what is being presented isn't what the bible says so much as its someone's opinion of what the bible says. A very different thing. If we can trust Jesus to lead us in our own walk we can trust Him to lead others in theirs. That doesn't mean take a hands off attitude and never say anything. Many people are turned from error by meeting just the right person with the right words at the right time... but to be that right person with the right words at the right time is something that has to come from the Holy Spirit. I don't think I can hear that voice if I'm busy with all my opinionating. I'm mostly talking here about people who say they are Christian here. Telling people who don't know about Jesus is different, how can they know if we don't tell them but to me thats a different topic. God Bless, MarysRoses | ||
| Luzisbornagain Registered user Username: Luzisbornagain Post Number: 23 Registered: 7-2007 |
I apologize if I came across as harsh. I do not mean to in any way to make people feel bad. I know I'm not perfect myself and therefore make mistakes in offending people. I'm sorry if my approach came out too direct and don't mean in any way to try and make people feel bad. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3936 Registered: 3-2004  |
Luz, when you speak from the heart and from experience I cannnot judge it. I cannot judge anyone anyway. You were telling what God has done for you-being a witness and that is what God wants us to do. Diana | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 91 Registered: 5-2007  |
Luz, From the way you describe your sister, she clearly understands what is sin and what is right. All the things she is doing is her list of rebellion. You don't have to tell her what she already knows. What she doesn't know is the way of excape. If I am right, she is fearfully lonely and crying out to be loved and understood. Just show your unconditional love for your sister. Without approving any of my sins, this is how Jesus reached my heart. Show your love and the Holy Spirit will do the rest. Will give her rest. Phil | ||
| Marysroses Registered user Username: Marysroses Post Number: 64 Registered: 4-2007 |
I wasn't trying to make you feel bad luz, just trying to say what I think phil said better MarysRoses |
