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Marysroses
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Username: Marysroses

Post Number: 74
Registered: 4-2007
Posted on Monday, July 09, 2007 - 5:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was typing a response to another thread and it got bigger than the topic.

In the discussion of the article on the meeting held to air various views of the young/old earth I had some observations. The only reason I can think of to have such a meeting is that it is the perception of the leadership that the body of evidence contrary to the Adventist position is getting to be so great that they will have to come up with a way of dealing with it. There is no wiggle room in EGW's writings for anything but a very young earth. What struck me most was the need for secrecy, people being afraid to put their names to their ideas for fear of losing their positions and livelihoods.

This reminded me of other discussions and other upheavals. Adventists have had to give up the notion that Sunday keeping began in the fourth century by decree, well documented historical sources simply do not support Ellen White's version of history in the Great Controversy. Adventists have had to deal with the overwhelming evidence of copying and 'outsourcing'of Ellen's books.

The sense of secrecy and fear reported just seem to be so great for something on which the Bible itself does not explain in great detail. Adventists themselves put a great deal of emphasis on the idea that in the bible 'day' does not always mean a 24 hour day.

Adjusting one's theology to accommodate new historical and scientific information is never easy and shouldn't be rushed, but there is something more going on, imho.

Several groups came out of the Millerite movement.

I'd be hard pressed to remember them all. I could look them up, but thats really the point I'm making. The ones that kept to mainstream Christianity have all but faded away. We do have a Sunday keeping Advent Christian Church nearby, but when I've asked some of them questions about Miller and prophecy and their origins, not one person I talked too even knew about 1844. Their doctrine is comparable to the local Church of Christ and Disciples of Christ that we have locally as far as I could tell from a casual conversation. As far as I know, none of the groups that maintained orthodox protestant beliefs ever grew to be very large.

The other category would be ones, like Jehovah's Witnesses that are so far out of the mainstream that few would consider them other than a cult.

There are so many different ideas about prophecy out there. Other groups have dietary related beliefs. Other groups even keep more of levitical law than Adventists do. But not one other group that I know of makes the sabbath into a centerpiece of being the test of loyalty and salvation for the end times.

Without this "sabbath message" there is no real reason for the Adventist Church to exist.

Anything that threatens that message threatens the identity of Seventh-day Adventists as a group. Defending a young earth or ellen white is more than scholarship its survival.

I think, rambling on here, that individual SDA also resist really looking at their beliefs because their own sense of self and their Christianity is bound up in the sabbath. If a literal 24 hour seventh day sabbath is threatened, everything comes tumbling down.

I sometimes need my understanding and thinking about theology corrected. I don't really like it if I need to modify my views, and I will study and argue the point until I understand my error, (or show them theirs! lol), then I move on. It doesn't threaten my identity as a Christian or as a Catholic, if there is credible evidence I'm wrong, I can accept it.

I don't see this kind of security in Adventists. I can study without fear that some discovery will shake my entire foundation.

Obviously, the sabbath is not a worthy foundation for a secure, open and honest faith.

MarysRoses
Reb
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Username: Reb

Post Number: 307
Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Tuesday, July 10, 2007 - 7:24 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You are so correct, MarysRoses.

I've thought some of the same things myself.

Looking at my son's textbooks from Adventist school they totally indoctrinate the kids with this nonsense.

I am so glad he'll hopefully be going to Catholic school next year, where at least he'll get the proper science education and actually get taught Bible in Religion class instead of EGW's Great Controversy.
Helovesme2
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Username: Helovesme2

Post Number: 979
Registered: 8-2004


Posted on Friday, July 20, 2007 - 7:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I posted this on another forum, but I think it fits on this thread as well. Sabbath was definitely a defining part of my identity as an SDA, and I think I was not alone in that. Here's what I wrote elsewhere:

quote:

I was raised Seventh Day Adventist. We rejoiced in the 'truth' that only we had 'the truth of the Sabbath', attempted to keep it from sundown to sundown on the seventh day of the week, to cook all our food before, to have our clothes ready, our bodies clean, and all 'secular things' out of sight before Saturday started. As a child, I looked forward to Sabbath because it meant I didn't have to do dishes, clean house, or cook for my 8 siblings and parents for 24 hours. For some reason though, with all the 'sabbath keeping' going on, we didn't keep the rest of the feasts God gave to Moses - The Day of Atonement, Feast of Trumpets, etc. This (and many other issues) set me to studying.

Every Sabbath at church we wished each other 'Happy Sabbath', we thanked God for the Sabbath, rejoiced in the Sabbath, sang about the Sabbath, listened to sermons about the Sabbath, etc, etc. Yet something was missing. Jesus was talked about and prayed to - as our example on how to keep the Sabbath, as the one who gave us the Sabbath, as the one who would be coming back to claim us who 'keep the commandments of God' (of which Sabbath is the Seal) 'and the faith of Jesus' (which, if you follow the SDA rabbit trails of theology comes out to be the Spirit of Prophecy, which followed down it's twisted interpretation becomes the writings of Ellen G. White).

For all of those poor benighted souls who keep Sunday it was hoped that they would see the light on the Sabbath truth before it was too late (when Sunday keeping, according to SDA eschatology, becomes the Mark of the Beast).

In my studies, I came to understand that the Sabbath was as much a shadow of Jesus Christ as every other feast and festival was - it foreshadowed the rest from our own works that comes when we relinquish ourselves to Jesus - our true Rest- and surrender our own works as a means of salvation.

If someone wants to 'respect a day' that's fine - it's not salvific one way or the other. For myself, I 'regard every day alike' - and now rejoice in the freedom that Jesus has given me by His grace. This freedom is not a freedom to sin. Its a freedom to focus on something other than myself and whether I'm measuring up to this or that, to revel in my Savior, knowing I can trust Him to lead me where I need to go, and to do what I need to do, to walk in the Spirit not trying to make myself produce fruits, but knowing that as I walk in Him the fruits will come - and will be of Him, and to His glory.


Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 6349
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Friday, July 20, 2007 - 11:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow, Mary--what an articulate description of your experience. Yes, it is very familiar. My, what a convoluted world view we had!

Colleen

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