| Author | Message | ||
| Treasurehntr Registered user Username: Treasurehntr Post Number: 15 Registered: 7-2007 |
Colleen is right, FAF is no substitute for fellowship. I've been out of fellowship for some time now and I feel horrible about it. I need to find a healthy Church where the gospel is taught. Still there is so much Adventism whirling in my head. I want it Gone! I was so deep into the SDA message I could have easily followed a dangerous spinoff. This isnt easy for me. In the short time i've been on the forum I have grown to love and respect all of you. I aint goin nowhere...) I just need your council and prayers. No person can do this alone. Ken | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3980 Registered: 3-2004  |
When I started attending my church I signed up for the Starting Point class. The class is for new Christians and teaches them what the church teaches. One of the first things we learned is that we are not to be on the journey alone. We are there to help each other. Read your Bible and pray about a church. I know I am preaching to the choir here, so I will stop. Father in Heaven, Show Ken, like you showed me where you want him. Hold him safe in your awesome hands. Thank you God. Diana | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6299 Registered: 12-2003  |
Ken, you are so right. We can't do this alone. I've often thought that God gave me a gift the value of which I had absolutely no concept at first: he brought Richard and me out together, and he brought my dear friend out in a parallel journey during the same time frame. I had two people to whom I could talk. Our experience deeply convicted us that others in our position needed support. And I have learned so much from everyone here over the past seven years. God has taught me through you all and through the subjects raised here that I needed to study. A great many people do not walk this road with any other person walking with them—but God knows how to give us what we need. Regarding a church—I have a two-part suggestion: pray and visit. Ask God to guide you to the church where He already knows you need to be in order to grow. Look for a Bible-teaching church where people are alive in Jesus and where Jesus is central and His word honored. Just begin visiting. Sometimes God places people in a congregation for a while, in order to stabilize them and give them grounding in a supportive environment--and sometimes He moves them on after a few months or a year or two into another church where He plants them more deeply in His word, in involvement in ministry, etc. You can take your time and you can trust God to lead you. He's not in a hurry--that phenomenon is ours! God leads us step-by-step. Pray for God's direction and just begin visiting. I've heard many people say that when they finally visited the church where they were planted, they had a deep conviction of being "home". God confirms His will to us. He knows what you need, and you can trust Him to bring you to it in His time. Meanwhile, we're here for you! Colleen | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 384 Registered: 11-2005 |
Ken, Diane and Colleen have some excellent advice. If you are like I was in the beginning of my transition, I was looking for a denomination to replace Adventism. That is the typical Adventist mindset. One thing I learned is that outside of Adventism most fellowships are "congregational" with the pastors (rightly) viewing themselves as responsible to the local congregation. Adventism uses a hierarchical structure with the power focused at the top, and Ellen White as the infallible interpreter of the Bible. The difference is dramatic! What this means to you (speaking for myself) is that we here at FAF can't recommend particular denominations, per se. While a denominational association does imply support for a specific set of "denominational distinctives”, the emphasis, style of worship, community outreach, etc, is influenced significantly by the local leadership of each group. Oftentimes this has an even greater influence than denominational affiliation. After praying for the Holy Spirit's guidance, I would recommend that you visit a number of various groups and compare what they teach with the Bible. You will, of course, also be considering worship style, discipleship, children’s programs, community outreach, etc. There are both independent and denominationally-based groups that are very good. I look for ones that spend a lot of time actually studying God's Word -- both in Bible Study Class and the worship service. I especially like expository study - taking a chapter or book, and going through it verse by verse. For others who are reading this post -- I found that one of the hardest things emotionally for me was to start actually worshipping on Sunday. You have to be raised an Adventist to appreciate the stigma that is associated with praising God on Sunday. Emotionally it is like a lifelong vegetarian trying to develop a taste for meat. From infanthood up, we have been taught that "faithfulness" to the 7th-day Sabbath IS the ultimate salvational test, while worshipping on Sunday is tantamount to treason against God. I began by attending Wednesday (or whatever day) evening Bible study. That also gave me an opportunity to feel more comfortable with potentially worshipping on a Sunday with them. Many transitioning Adventists are also doing this under the "spotlight" of their spouse's disapproval. The slightest hint of question about a potential new church family is taken by any critics as affirmation that Adventism is the "one true church" after all. It especially complicates things if children are involved. There is no margin for error. The transition has got to be successful the first time, if it is being done under the watchful eyes of the rest of the family. One thing that takes a little getting used to is that in the Seventh-day Adventist Church we were taught that we were 100% right. It was the "whole package”, or none at all! I've since learned that this is one of the marks of a cult. I have learned that there are certain non-negotiable foundation doctrines (which Colleen stated so well in another post here somewhere). Another thing that is so refreshing is that you will frequently hear the thought expressed in Christian fellowships that outside these foundation doctrines, it is perfectly normal to hold different viewpoints. We "major" in the majors, and "minor" in the minors. People don't feel threatened outside of a cultic mentality. Points can be considered individually without "writing" someone off because they don't agree on every point. Some areas that transitioning Adventists typically have a heightened awareness of are the Ten Commandments, the use of the word "tithe", New Covenant vs. Old Covenant concepts, and of course, mention of the Sabbath (usually in the context of the 4th commandment). If a potential future church pastor feels that the Ten Commandments (as opposed to the principles they represent) are still binding, then we have bigger problems. It doesn't bother me so much now if someone refers to "tithes and offerings" in the same breath. They will usually also say that while tithing is not binding that it is a good idea in principle. The important thing is that I know that we are in agreement on the core salvational issues. We have a common understanding of the Gospel of Christ. The focus is on the grace of Christ, instead of promoting denominational affiliations. I had a situation where the associate pastor stated that "days had gotten lost in the calendar" and so we didn't really know which day was Saturday anyway". He mentioned it in passing, after suggesting that time spent in a non-legalistic way with the family and God on the Sabbath was a good idea, but that the day didn't matter. It was apparent to me that it was a concept that he had been taught, and that he hadn't had reason to give it much thought. I knew that my wife (who had been attending with me for just a few months) would see right through that with typical Adventist clarity. I commented to her afterward about how he was wrong in his logic on that particular point, and she accepted that it is possible to be right on some points and wrong on others -- a uniquely non-Adventist perspective. She really likes most aspects of his teachings. There is one other thing that took a little getting used to. In the Adventist church I was used to potlucks, etc, as a way to socialize. In non-Adventist fellowships this is often replaced with "small groups". In retrospect I have learned that while potlucks are appealing to the stomach, the level of social interaction is superficial. Small group interaction is much more open and honest at a personal level. Small groups then become the building blocks for the larger church family. Hopefully this will help. Gilbert Jorgensen | ||
| Treasurehntr Registered user Username: Treasurehntr Post Number: 16 Registered: 7-2007 |
Thanks so much for all the advice Diana, I somehow knew you would be the first to reply..) Those first steps are the hardest Ken | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3984 Registered: 3-2004 |
Ken, I very seldom open my computer in the morning before i leave for work. This morning I did because God wanted me to be the first to post. Isn't our God awesome?? Diana | ||
| Treasurehntr Registered user Username: Treasurehntr Post Number: 17 Registered: 7-2007 |
Yep, he sure is! I spent alot of time praying sunday. Finally, the right words came and I was able to post. Keep in mind I am a poor excuse for a Christian, but it is not my work but the work God does in me. I think that I might try the neighborhood Baptist church this sunday. Maybe the Methodist down the street. When I say I was on the verge of falling into a dangerous spinoff I am very serious. My Church lost a Pastor who followed Jeanean Sautron, there were two who were disfellowshiped for following the Shepherds Rod. I was close to these people and went to meetings. I have read Larry Wilson and Robert Hauser. For God to keep me out of that kind of trouble he is truely AWESOME! I wept a little bit when I read your prayer for me Thank you | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6307 Registered: 12-2003 |
Gilbert, such a GREAT explanation of the differences between what we are used to as Adventists and what is available to us as "just plain Christ-followers". You are absolutely right that we have expectations which most Christian churches won't match—but they will offer us completely new options with much greater honesty and meaning. We have to learn to think and live in a new paradigm. Ken, God is faithful. I praise Him for protecting you and continuing to bring you to Himself! Colleen |
