| Author | Message | ||
| Luzisbornagain Registered user Username: Luzisbornagain Post Number: 48 Registered: 7-2007 |
Now that I'm not adventist,I'm wondering about bible prophecy of the end times. When I was adventist I was told the rapture and the pre-tribulation period was unbiblical and then I stumbled on this site jesus-is-savior.com and it says that it is biblical. Now that I realize the truth about SDAs and how their doctrines are not based on the bible if all that I knew about prophecy was not true. I was wondering, has anyone felt this way and have done enough bible study to realize what's the true prophecy and if the rapture and the pretribulation period is actually true and there will be "two comings" of Jesus or just one. I was taught that Jesus will come once after His second coming. | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 378 Registered: 5-2007 |
Honetsly, Luz, I don't care about prophecy at this point after what I went through in Adventism. I am totally "burned out" on it. My focus now is the Gospel and having a walk with Christ so I'm ready if the "end" comes but I don't dwell on it or even think much about it. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3987 Registered: 3-2004  |
Luz, I have made the center of Bible Study knowing Jesus. I have not touched the apocolyptic part. What I have done is this: Even before I was kicked out of the SDA church and was in a 12 step program, I came to the conclusion, that no matter what happens in the future, God will take care of me. It is not important to me to have all the details, as we had as adventists. Matt 6 tells us not to worry about tomorrow. So I do not. If God see fit to let me know what all of Revelations means, I will say praise God. Until then I say Praise God. He is so awesome. Diana | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 397 Registered: 11-2005 |
Luz, I wondered about that as well. I still don't have an opinion about it. My impression though is that it is an are where multiple interpretations seem to exist, and it is not considered "core doctrine". For now that's enough for me. I know that I am saved, and God will lead me into a knowledge of what I need to know. Gilbert Jorgensen | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 43 Registered: 7-2007 |
I don't know anything anymore about Revelation now that I'm out of the SDA church either. The friend who brought me out (with the Lord's help) told me that the rapture doctrine came from a vision by a young lady in 1830, by the name of Miss Margaret Macdonald who lived in England. Dianne | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 380 Registered: 5-2007 |
A lot of "freaky" things were happening in the US and England during that time period. "Visionaries" were a dime-a-dozen. | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 46 Registered: 7-2007 |
If any of you would like me to post the article I recieved from that friend about the rapture here, let me know and I'll post it  Dianne | ||
| Blessed Registered user Username: Blessed Post Number: 53 Registered: 1-2007 |
After I became a Christian I didn't get involved in prophecy. I knew that the Adventist teaching was wrong but just wanted to focus on Christ and the gospel of grace. Last year I had the opportunity to study the book of Daniel (through a Beth Moore study). I absolutely loved the study and it helped me get a Biblical perspective on the whole topic of the end times. One of the things that impacted me was the idea that it is not to be feared. As believers we have the Holy Spirit in us and whatever the Lord allows us to go through it will be with a part of the Godhead with us. That to me was so freeing. Also there is thought that the Holy Spirit may be removed part way through the tribulation. If in fact that is true then we will not be here (thus the Rapture) because I do not believe that there is any reference in Scripture to us living without the Holy Spirit once we have received Christ. After 37 years of ignoring the topic I am so thankful that I now have a Biblical perspective. We really do not have any need to fear - Praise the Lord. Blessed | ||
| Bigal Registered user Username: Bigal Post Number: 73 Registered: 9-2006  |
Reb, it struck me as funny when you said "My focus now is the Gospel and having a walk with Christ so I'm ready if the "end" comes but I don't dwell on it or even think much about it." Your statement prompts me to quote Clint Eastwood in "Unforgiven", "We got it all coming, kid." I also heard a preacher say that last time he checked the death rate is still 100%. I know what you meant by "if the end comes." My focus for most of my younger years was on am I ready and strong enough when "the end times" come. Well I am 43 years old and if I live to the average age of say 72 to 74 for a male then I have ~ a good 30 years left. Hey if Jesus comes while I am here then great, but if not then please tell me about what happened when we get to Heaven. I agree that no matter what, I have the assurance of Salvation in Jesus. Alan | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6320 Registered: 12-2003  |
Dealing with "end times" is, I believe, the last big issue former Adventists tackle. It's such a relief to know that what we believed wasn't true! We know for sure that Jesus will keep us no matter what. As Blessed said, though, prophecy and "the end" are not to be feared. The book of Revelation itself begins with a declaration that it is the revelation of Jesus Christ, and there is blessing for all who study the book. I'm looking forward to our women's Bible study this fall; we are actually going to study Revelation. It will be an overview of the book and will not go deeply into prophetic interpretations and symbolic meanings, but I am ready and so looking forward to it. I've been out of the church for over eight years, and I'm finally eager to begin this study. Colleen | ||
| Luzisbornagain Registered user Username: Luzisbornagain Post Number: 49 Registered: 7-2007 |
The reason I ask is because the book of revelations and daniel are now going to be seen in another light from adventism. Prophecy is Christ centered because it points to His return, plus the word 'End' in the bible is another name for Jesus remember He said He is the Alpha and Omega, He's the Beginning and He is the 'END'. Therefore endtimes is Jesus-time. Coming out of adventism the Bible to me all points to Jesus Christ. It's like a puzzle full of pieces with different pictures in them and when you put all the stories and pieces together you see the picture of Christ written all over it. Prophecy is important because its there to reassure us about His fulfilled promises and therefore gives us the confidence that future promises will also be fulfilled and it's not a message of fear but of hope, but I respect you guys decision in not discussing it. Asurprise please post the article. | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 118 Registered: 5-2007  |
Luz, I have been away from SDAism for about fifty years, the first ten or so years I wondering in the world. When I finally turned my life back over to the Lord, prophecy was the last thing I needed. Later on, I did get into it because it is important, but not at first. What I have learned is that there are several possible sequences of event leading up to the end times and the return of our Lord. Prophecy is meant to assure us that there will be an end to suffering and death. A loving God assures us that wonderful changes are coming our way. 1. We should understand prophecy enough so that when one is fulfilled, we can see "the hand of God" in it and know that a he foreknew all before time began. The whole purpose of prophecy is to show us who is in control of our lives and what is going on in the world. 2. Keep an eye on what is going on in Israel. Compare the daily news to what scripture has to say about this part of the world. It is exciting to see events shaping up to what the "end times" are going to be like. 3. Our number one mandate from the Lord is to bring his message of salvation to a lost world. This should be our focus. Don't dwell on the "end times" except as an added motive to spread the gospel message before it is to late. 4. I believe some prophecies will be best understood as they are fulfilled. We will say to ourselves; "Ah ha, that is what the Lord was warning or assuring us about". Phil | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6326 Registered: 12-2003 |
Phil, that's about how I view endtimes now, also. I doubt I'll ever have a firm belief in things happening exactly a certain way again, but I know that prophecy is for our certainty that God is in it when things happen and we see events taking place as foretold. The new part of this whole "thing", for me, is even to consider Israel or the Middle East as significant in terms of current events. Colleen | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 1075 Registered: 9-2006  |
I have not been into Bible Prophecy for a long time, but there are people who seem to have been called to study just that, there is a prophecy conference held each year in Florida I believe it is where all the prophecy Bible Scholars meet. The most significant happening that I can see in our lifetime was when Israel returned to their homeland in 48’ or 49’ Jews have been returning ever since and I don’t believe they will ever be scattered again, nor will they be “pushed into the Sea” as so many want them to be, those people around Israel have proclaimed openly that they will not be satisfied until they are destroyed, but it will not happen they will reap what they desire for Israel. I keep one eye on what I am about with God in the here and now and the other eye on Israel. Israel Is my “Watch”. Many think what happens in the U.S is significant factors of prophecy, but I watch Israel. While I note other significant factor such as the advancement of science as leading up to the time of the “Beast” and I do believe in the event of the rapture and here is why I believe it will happen. What holds Satan back is the presence and prayers of the saints (Christians), there are people praying to God night and day and they will not stop until God takes them home, there are many people of God who are fully armored to protect and defend, God hears and answers prayer and he will not allow his church to be defeated, so it just seems common sense to think that these things will not happen until the church is taken out of the way. Although the Christian is subject to suffering and even Martyred for the sake of the Gospel God will not pour out his wrath on them. I believe where we are in the timeline is Gods final message to the churches as in Revelations letters to the churches; we are living in the time approaching the close of the Christian age. I believe that we still do “see as in a glass darkly”, but we can see the dim outlines as these times approach. The scriptures tell us to work while it is yet day, so while we have the day and the hour of opportunity to do we need to awake ourselves to get done what we need to do. Each and individually we do not know how much time we have left so each prayer should be approached as if it were our last, how would we pray if we knew it would be our last opportunity here on earth? I have such a hard time keeping this realization in mind. I have a hard time redeeming the time. Jesus may say to either one of us today “come up hither” River | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 119 Registered: 5-2007 |
River, We are in total agreement on how to regard prophecy. For those who love the Lord, prophecy is exciting and an adminition to do the work he has assigned to us, warn the world. Only the lost need to be scared!  Phil | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 1077 Registered: 9-2006 |
Phil, As I sat thinking about scripture in general this morning and about prophecy and the revelations, I admit to you that revelations and much of the rest of the bible needs “interpretation” as it were. However, there is so much of the Bible that does not need “interpretation”, there is so much of it that needs no explanation and that any reasonable mind can understand, Jesus made many simple statements, he made the simple statement that no one would know the time of his return, if the early Adventist would have taken those simple scriptures at face value they would have saved themselves a lot of heart ache. Some scripture is vague and we need to be careful, but there is enough that is not vague for us to understand many things. I think it is when we take the approach that every bit of scripture needs to be “interpreted” that trouble arises, there enough plain scripture to keep us out of trouble don’t you think? River | ||
| Jim02 Registered user Username: Jim02 Post Number: 158 Registered: 5-2007 |
The problem I have with end time prophecys is that I find I cannot conclude anything at all. Nothing specific. Every facet can be multi applied, multi defined. It is enough for me to be aware and I think we should all know for ourselves "exactly" what scripture does say and not rely on Hollywood to make up imcomplete quotes or skewed quotes. I think if we at least read it. It becomes a knowledge base that is available to our recall by the power of The Holy Spirit, "when" we need to know it. Thus , I am not as concerned about getting the mysterys solved as much as I am about having the ability to recall what is given. Events will unfold in due order. I agree with others on this string. It s a matter of trust. I note, Colleen, SDA start with prophecy presentations (the bait) , while others tend to start with Christ and prophecy is the last subject addressed. That is worth considering. | ||
| Jim02 Registered user Username: Jim02 Post Number: 159 Registered: 5-2007 |
Spell check ! Typing at the speed of light. Please forgive the typos | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 977 Registered: 8-2004  |
BTW, if you use a recent version of the Firefox browser you spell-check is included. It's made my own posting life much easier! | ||
| Dinolf Registered user Username: Dinolf Post Number: 58 Registered: 8-2005 |
Interesting to read about changing focus from propethy to the good life in the spirit of Jesus. As Christians we are supposed to live - as God ment us to live - to serve for the Kingdom. In the gospels we find what Jesus ment how to serve the Kingdom. There is still a good point to study prophecy, but as stated above, not making it the central point. Adventists, as well as other christians, sometimes make prophcy to big and miss the instructions of Jesus. One example is Christians that move to Jerusalem for - as to say - be close to the "gateway" when Jesus comes back. They make a big point in a prophetic message in Zechariah 12 and 14. I have never considered Zech. this way before and will propably just se it as one possible scenario. The point is - do prophecy help us to focus on a Christserving life - or does it lead to a actions just to save oneself? Go for the Kingdom... Dinolf | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 927 Registered: 10-2002  |
The sole interpreter and indicator of our location in the end of all things is this: the gospel of God's grace. If you want to see what's happening the world, do not look by national boundaries, but by the Spirit and by the spirits behind things. Not according to the flesh, but according to faith. Also look with eyes that discern agape love and all things which move against it. I'm going to be blunt because I have little time these days and I am continually distressed about this in the body: The fixation with Israel is based on flesh, and it is ignorant of the severe spiritual abuses which created the modern state of Israel in the first place. The deed was shady, dodgy, and the human hands that orchestrated it completely went against God's love which values Palestinians just as much as He values Jewish people. He is the Savior of both. One great sin that is not widely known is that during WWII there were Jewish leaders in high positions in America lobbying for the creation of the state of Israel while they were *aware* of the holocaust happening in Europe. Many of these leaders chose to spend their time and efforts lobbying for the creation of a state on a piece of land instead of for intervention on behalf of their dying brothers in Europe. One rabbi stated that European Jews did not compare to the worth of the precious land of Israel. (I learned some of these things at this site: http://jewsagainstzionism.com/ ) In short, the modern nation of Israel was founded on bloodshed. This is why it is not at peace today. It is not because of blind hatred of Muslims (mind you, there is serious issue for prayer and spiritual warfare for them nonetheless, but the root is offended unforgiveness). Modern Israel was founded on bloodshed -- those considered less worthy in Europe, and Palestinians considered as less than worthy of having the right to live in their homes. Historians are aware of ironies we are foolishly ignorant of, such as that 100 years ago there was Jewish terrorism, and that in history for a long time Jews and Muslims lived next to each other and even fought *alongside each other* (they fought against Christian crusaders). Much of the world is aware of these things. Most of Europe is aware, but because America is "religious" and "a Christian nation" they consider European opinion to be liberal nonsense. The church is looking by flesh, discerning by "circumcision" and not by the Spirit, not seeing the spirits behind things nor the offenses against agape love that have caused roots of bitterness to grow and prosper. I want to make it clear that in saying these things I am not blaming any group of people today -- there are many who are wounded on all sides in the Middle East. But we as the Church in discerning by the flesh and supporting the legacy of anti-agape are not helping the people of the Middle East. Not only are we continuing to water the root of bitterness in Muslims, but we are not testifying to the circumcision of the heart in the Messiah -- we are not helping the state of Israel see that there is a King sitting on the throne of David! What is prophetic in these things? It is what Jesus said: "Because of the increase of wickedness, the love (agape) of most will grow cold. But he who stands firm to the end shall be saved." We have been looking in the flesh at peoples' wickedness (on all sides) and have been reacting to the flesh, not to the spirits and principalities behind these things. Because of this many have called for war after war, violence after violence, sword after sword -- instead of obeying the Gospel call of God's agape love. The Church has largely lost her testimony in this regard by forgetting her mission. | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 928 Registered: 10-2002 |
Re: the above It reminds me of how in Adventism, whenever the topics of "the end times" came up, whatever knowledge of the Gospel (righteousness by faith) we had turned off. We unconsciously believed the end times played by different rules. In the same way, when Gospel-believing Christians hear about "Israel", it is as if large parts of the Gospel "turn off" because "it's Israel". | ||
| Laurie Registered user Username: Laurie Post Number: 36 Registered: 6-2007 |
Taking the time to get a fresh, new, unbiased understanding of end time prophecy is on my list of things to do. But for now, It is just too soon. I can't do it yet. I struggle with not letting anger and resentment towards the SDA church take over, and I think that tackling that topic would just stir up too much emotion for me right now. Quite frankly, I don't care if I ever fully understand it. If I have assurance of my salvation and have complete faith and trust in Jesus, does it really matter? It is quite interesting and fascinating, but right now it does not matter to me. Laurie | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 4024 Registered: 3-2004 |
Laurie, We have salvation through Jesus Christ and that is the important thing to know. Prophecy is interesting, but is not necessary for salvation. I have read Daniel and Revelation since I left and they no longer scare me. I do not understand everything, but that is fine with me. At least I have the important thing: a relationship with Jesus. He is so awesome. Diana | ||
| Mwh Registered user Username: Mwh Post Number: 639 Registered: 4-2006  |
Interesting conference on prophecy: http://www.thebereancall.org/node/5091 |
