| Author | Message | ||
| Jim02 Registered user Username: Jim02 Post Number: 180 Registered: 5-2007 |
Colleen , Thank you for the link on Abortion. So very sad............. It strikes me as having their feet firmly on both camps on that issue. I am pro life 100%. Truly this is a hard subject and nebulous. | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 545 Registered: 11-2005 |
We know for a fact that the hospital "arm" of the Seventh-day Adventist Church performs abortions. The disconnect with the Six Commandment ("Thou shalt not kill.") is deafening. What more can I say? Gilbert Jorgensen | ||
| Jim02 Registered user Username: Jim02 Post Number: 181 Registered: 5-2007 |
It is a sensitive subject, especially for anyone who has gone through it. Personally , I cannot accept the idea that an innocent life must be sacrificed for any reason by the hand of man. Even with no religon. The right to exist stands self evident. | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 547 Registered: 11-2005 |
The Baptist church that I attend sponsoers a Pregnancy Resource Center that provides free ultrasounds. 85% of the mothers that have ultrasounds, and get to see the living human that they carry, decide not to go through with an abortion. Gilbert Jorgensen | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6500 Registered: 12-2003  |
You're welcome, Jim. I am sorry. I know that my own position on abortion has done a 180 turn-around since I've understood that humans have spirits and that a human fetus is in a class of its own. It's not mere tissue as an embryo, and it's not in the category of "merely animal". Humans are the one creation made by God's own hands in His image. That reality never made sense to me as a soul-sleep-believing Adventist. I had no understanding of our spirits being in the image of God who is Spirit. Colleen | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 1258 Registered: 9-2006  |
Ya know, as I read this, here are thoughts I had. In an abortion they are not killing the spirit of the child of God, they are depriving that child of a body to inhabit. The body of the child is beginning to form, getting ready to hold the spirit, is the spirit already there waiting for its body to be able to do its commands? We can't know that can we? I don't want to kill one to find out neither, but I have a feeling there are some people going to find out the hard way. Who knows if the spirits of these children are even now crying out to God for justice? I wouldn't think there is a half spirit or deformed spirit, there would be a complete and fully aware spirit even though it never got the chance to breath or suckle its mama's breast or run and laugh and play with the pure inhibited joy of a child. I tell you, thinking about this can give you the heebejeebe's. Just my rambling. It is certainly a forbidding thought to fall into the hands of an angry God. River | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6506 Registered: 12-2003 |
Yes, River—I've thought those thoughts, too. And I don't really know the answers. What I've had to conclude is that human life is clearly in a different category than animal life. As an Adventist I understood human life to be essentially the same as animal life with the exception that we had reaoning powers of the mind that animals lacked. Knowing now that human life is of a completely different type than animal life because the "image of God" is not merely about mental skills but is about something less defined and more profound makes me see unborn life completely differently. And even though I don't understand the "mechanism" of body being united with spirit, I now see that the fact of this reality changes everything. Indeed, "It is certainly a forbidding thought to fall into the hands of an angry God." Colleen | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 996 Registered: 8-2004  |
 In Mennonite Elementary School a number of years ago, I was taught the difference between the 'human spirit' and the 'animal spirit' is that humans have something unique that 'goes up' at death, and the animals are somehow 'part of the earth' and their spirit simply returns to it. This was explained in class from Eccl. 3:19-21
They placed special emphasis on the last portion, "Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?. They also gathered comfort from Eccl 9:5,6 that old favorite verse of Adventist 'soul sleep' dogma: "For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun." When I pointed out that 'the dead know not anything' (I was a careful little Adventist even while attending there) the teacher pointed out that was true 'under the sun' - they no longer knew what was going on with their possessions or posterity, but that those who died in Jesus and had plenty to rejoice over 'beyond the sun.'. It gave me plenty of food for thought at the time. I'm still thinking! Just some thoughts, Mary | ||
| Benevento Registered user Username: Benevento Post Number: 156 Registered: 4-2005 |
Colleen--I'd like the link re abortion too. I have a friend who needs more convincing than my small arsenal seems to accomplish. Also I'd like some help on Calvinism and Free Will.I am not very knowledge about those systems--I guess you would call them. I was just happy that Jesus said it is finished. Anyone care to give a simple explanation ? Thanks, Peggy | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6508 Registered: 12-2003 |
Peggy, here's the portion of my post from earlier this week where I list some links re: abortion: Here is the official Adventist policy on abortion on the SDA website: http://www.adventist.org/beliefs/guidelines/main_guide1.html Here is the letter of resignation from Teresa and Arthur Beem stating why they are leaving Adventism. Note their first reason: http://www.formeradventist.com/stories/teresaarthurbeem.html At the following three links, Richard Fredericks wrote a three-part article for Proclamation! on the subject of abortion. He discusses abortion within the Adventist church and proposes a Christian and ethical response to abortion. Richard Fredericks served on the General Conferences panel to discuss and formulate an abortion policy before he left the Adventist church in 1997 after being fired for preaching the gospel alone in his church in Maryland. Here is the first installment; begin reading on page 7: http://lifeassuranceministries.org/Proclamation2003_JanFeb.pdf Here is part two; begin again on page 7: http://lifeassuranceministries.org/Proclamation2003_MarApr.pdf Part 3, again on page 7: http://lifeassuranceministries.org/Proclamation2003_MayJun.pdf olleen | ||
| Benevento Registered user Username: Benevento Post Number: 157 Registered: 4-2005 |
Thanks Colleen, I'm glad to have these. Peggy | ||
| Mwh Registered user Username: Mwh Post Number: 679 Registered: 4-2006  |
Peggy I just watched to DVD sets on Calvinism on pro and one against, I can recommend them both. 1. Amazing Grace: The History & Theology of CALVINISM 2. What Love is This by Dave Hunt (http://www.thebereancall.org/node/4723) In His strong Hand, Martin |
