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Jamundson
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Username: Jamundson

Post Number: 33
Registered: 7-2007
Posted on Thursday, August 09, 2007 - 12:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well now I am in battle with my SDA brother. This time it is the state of the dead issue. I guess my family is now dividing the work load up so each one will take an issue to contend with me .

I have seen in previous threads remarks about EGW talking to her dead husband, but now I cannot find it. Can anyone point me in to the exact reference on this please.

Jay
Jorgfe
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Username: Jorgfe

Post Number: 548
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Thursday, August 09, 2007 - 1:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Ellen Dreams of James Shortly After His Death

A few days since, I was pleading with the Lord for light in regard to my duty. In the night I dreamed I was in the carriage, driving, sitting at the right hand. Father was in the carriage, seated at my left hand. He was very pale, but calm and composed. "Why Father," I exclaimed, "I am so happy to have you by my side once more! I have felt that half of me was gone. Father, I saw you die; I saw you buried. Has the Lord pitied me and let you come back to me again, and we work together as we used to?"

He looked very sad. He said, "The Lord knows what is best for you and for me. My work was very dear to me. We have made a mistake. We have responded to urgent invitations of our brethren to attend important meetings. We had not the heart to refuse. These meetings have worn us both more than we were aware. Our good brethren were gratified, but they did not realize that in these meetings we took upon us greater burdens than at our age we could safely carry. They will never know the result of this long-continued strain upon us. God would have had them bear the burdens we have carried for years. Our nervous energies have been continuously taxed, and then our brethren misjudging our motives and not realizing our burdens have weakened the action of the heart. I have made mistakes, the greatest of which was in allowing my sympathies for the people of God to lead me to take work upon me which others should have borne.

"Now, Ellen, calls will be made as they have been, desiring you to attend important meetings, as has been the case in the past. But lay this matter before God and make no response to the most earnest invitations. Your life hangs as it were upon a thread. You must have quiet rest, freedom from all excitement and from all disagreeable cares. We might have done a great deal for years with our pens, on subjects the people need that we have had light upon and can present before them, which others do not have. Thus you can work when your strength returns, as it will, and you can do far more with your pen than with your voice."

He looked at me appealingly and said, "You will not neglect these cautions, will you, Ellen? Our people will never know under what infirmities we have labored to serve them because our lives were interwoven with the progress of the work, but God knows it all. I regret that I have felt so deeply and labored unreasonably in emergencies, regardless of the laws of life and health. The Lord did not require us to carry so heavy burdens and many of our brethren so few. We ought to have gone to the Pacific Coast before, and devoted our time and energies to writing. Will you do this now? Will you, as your strength returns, take your pen and write out these things we have so long anticipated, and make haste slowly? There is important matter which the people need. Make this your first business. You will have to speak some to the people, but shun the responsibilities which have borne us down."

"Well," said I, "James, you are always to stay with me now and we will work together." Said he, "I stayed in Battle Creek too long. I ought to have gone to California more than one year ago. But I wanted to help the work and institutions at Battle Creek. I have made a mistake. Your heart is tender. You will be inclined to make the same mistakes I have made. Your life can be of use to the cause of God. Oh, those precious subjects the Lord would have had me bring before the people, precious jewels of light!"

I awoke. But this dream seemed so real. Now you can see and understand why I feel no duty to go to Battle Creek for the purpose of shouldering the responsibilities in General Conference. I have no duty to stand in General Conference. The Lord forbids me. That is enough. -- Letter 17, 1881.


BOOKS/RY - The Retirement Years (1990)/Chap. 13 - The Hour of Bereavement
http://egwdatabase.whiteestate.org/nxt/gateway.dll/egw-comp/section00000.htm/book04508.htm/chapter04523.htm#1

MANUSCRIPT RELEASES/10MR - Manuscript Releases Volume Ten [Nos. 771-850] (1990)/MR No. 781 - Ellen G. White and Family Life
http://egwdatabase.whiteestate.org/nxt/gateway.dll/egw-comp/section12951.htm/book13618.htm/chapter13631.htm#1

See also http://www.ellenwhite.org/egw61.htm

I also have a post at http://64.226.233.122/discus/messages/11/5899.html?1185995700#POST78301 with useful arguments.

Gilbert Jorgensen
Jamundson
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Username: Jamundson

Post Number: 34
Registered: 7-2007
Posted on Thursday, August 09, 2007 - 6:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

thank you Glibert

Jay
Lucybugg
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Username: Lucybugg

Post Number: 63
Registered: 2-2007
Posted on Friday, August 10, 2007 - 6:10 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

you can do far more with your pen than with your voice."

And didn't she though???? Notice he didn't say far more good....
Reb
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Username: Reb

Post Number: 526
Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Friday, August 10, 2007 - 12:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ellen White told others when they're dead they're dead yet she consulted James' spirit.

Ellen White told others not to eat meat while she was eating fried chicken herself.

Ellen White told others not to drink alcohol but was by her own admission addicted to the vinegar of that day that had a higher alcohol content than beer!
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 6513
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Friday, August 10, 2007 - 2:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Fried chicken...probably, but let's just go ahead and admit she was eating oysters! That fact was just so appalling to me when I learned it. Those are the kinds of realizations that made me feel especially "duped".

Praise God He shows us the truth!
Colleen
Reb
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Username: Reb

Post Number: 527
Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Friday, August 10, 2007 - 2:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes she ate oysters also. But fried chicken seemed to be her favourite.
Jamundson
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Username: Jamundson

Post Number: 35
Registered: 7-2007
Posted on Friday, August 10, 2007 - 5:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

When you folks make these references to EGW contradictions, it would be very helpful if you supplied the reference info. (Please)

There have been several suggestions (past threads) how to contend with SDA's , one of which it dispelling the validity of EGW.

My brother and wife have become "Whiteist's" (sp?). as well as heavy Doug Bachelor financial supporters.

Yesterday in a conversation, my brother said he had a dream that our dead father appeared to him. His reaction to my father in the dream was to say "your not my father" He expressed his concern to me that this was a demon trying to deceive him. I told him it was just a dream.

From there we proceeded to in heated debate about the state of the dead and then I made reference to the EGW dream about her husband. Then it got worse..............

I believe he is very venerable to the EGW debate. He and his wife adhere to her writings to the point of idolatry. I think this an issue that I could break through to them whereas the Sabbath debate may not.

I know of the EGW web sites, however it takes so much time to work thru to the important points and you guys seem to has it at your finger tips

Jay
Jorgfe
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Username: Jorgfe

Post Number: 556
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Friday, August 10, 2007 - 7:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jamundson,

I like to always include references with my quotes. For many of us who have researched these subjects extensively it is common knowledge and we know where to look. Of course that doesn't make it more credible for new visitors, because they don't know the sources.

If you do a search on:
EllenWhite.org (http://www.ellenwhite.org/), TruthorFables.com (http://www.truthorfables.com/) or Jack and Gary Gents site (http://www.ex-sda.com/index.htm)
you will find many, many references.

Regarding oysters, etc. see:
http://www.truthorfables.com/EGW_Eats_Meat_Oysters.htm
http://www.ellenwhite.org/contra6.htm
http://www.ellenwhite.org/kellogg.htm
http://www.ex-sda.com/30-doctrines-of-demons.htm

Here is a rather amusing article:
http://www.ellenwhite.org/egw82.htm

quote:

On the day of their arrival at their destination it must have been apparent that the supply of provisions was almost exhausted, and an "emergency " situation was upon them. Because the good weather would not obstruct traveling, it would have been reasonable to expect that they would take immediate steps to obtain suitable provisions. Instead we discover that the group has brought along their hunting and fishing equipment. In a short space of time, Brother Glover has caught a few fish, and also shot a duck, which was not eaten only because it was lost in the water. Why was it necessary to shoot the "unclean" duck8 when he already had "clean" fish? As we are to discover, Willie has also planned for this "emergency", as he also has a gun, and demonstrates considerable skill in the art of hunting, something that is not usually learned overnight.

Next day, Friday, Bro. Glover again went hunting, but found no game. Willie had better luck, and shot two gray squirrels to make broth for Brother Glover.

On Saturday Bro. Glover caught 16 fish. With the larder supposedly bare, and Bro. Glover subsisting on squirrel broth for a day, it would be reasonable to expect that there would be a massive fry-up immediately, but that is not what happened. Sister White urges Bro. Glover to take the fish home to his children! This surprising suggestion is a clear indication that the distance between the camping spot and Bro. Glover’s home is reasonably short, otherwise the fish would be inedible by the time they arrived at his home. Before Bro. Glover commences his journey on Sunday morning, the apparently empty larder produces enough food for his journey. If the larder was not empty on Sunday, why had Bro. Glover been living on squirrel broth since Friday evening?

Presumably Bro. Glover accepted the advice of Mrs. White and took his 16 fish with him, because the next food we see the Whites consuming is some deer meat that is given to them by a traveler. No doubt this was a welcome addition to the menu because the Whites were obviously partial to venison, and later, when "old brother White was breaking down" (probably 1880 or 1881) Mrs. White got him venison every day.9 The venison is quickly supplemented by a duck that Willie shoots. Yet again the question arises – why did this "prophet" feed her party on duck, which, in the eyes of some in the SDA church, is unclean meat, when they could have been eating the "clean" meat of the large number of fish sent to Brother Glover’s children?

It would appear that the meat diet had a beneficial effect, because the next day James and Willie are not out fishing, as might be expected under the circumstances, but cutting hay and loading it into their wagon. It is at this point that the "emergency" is relieved when some men arrive with provisions, presumably for the Whites, but the purpose of the visit of these men really seems to have been to catch more fish.

This apparently was not the end of the White’s appetite for duck. In October 1873, only a couple of weeks later, the Whites are again camping in the Rockies, again with provisions in short supply, and once again Willie supplements their rations with duck. This time he shot two of them.10 Then, four months later, on February 15, 1874, Mrs. White reported that "...they had dropped meat entirely."

The problem with this 1874 statement is that this resolve was short lived. The White Estate, with remarkable understatement, says "THERE IS EVIDENCE OF SOME LAXNESS IN THE 1870'S AND 1880'S WHICH ALLOWED A LITTLE MEAT TO APPEAR ON HER TABLE WHEN IT MAY NOT HAVE BEEN ESSENTIAL."11


Hope this helps,

Gilbert jorgensen
Jamundson
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Username: Jamundson

Post Number: 36
Registered: 7-2007
Posted on Friday, August 10, 2007 - 7:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

again thanks Gibert,

Jay

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