| Author | Message | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 619 Registered: 11-2005 |
Gilbert Jorgensen | ||
| Dale Registered user Username: Dale Post Number: 11 Registered: 4-2007  |
Gilbert, I am surprised that anyone here is using the Clear Word! | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 4172 Registered: 3-2004  |
Gilbert, What a revelation that is!! It is so convoluted. Diana | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 1319 Registered: 9-2006  |
Hey Gilbert, You ever run across a man that has kept the law, grab him and put him in a specimen bottle and put a stopper on it, that way we can pass him around and get a look at him. I think i'll regurgitate and turn in after reading that. Thanks a heap Bubba. Now i'm gonna have bad dreams.  River | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6613 Registered: 12-2003  |
Gilbert, that is amazing! It actually says that the mark of God on the heart is what makes a person a Seventh-day Adventist. They have totally appropriated the Jewish identity, haven't they? They ARE today's Judaism. They see themselves as God's chosen people. Those quotes, given the authority of "scripture", are actually shocking. Colleen | ||
| Patriar Registered user Username: Patriar Post Number: 309 Registered: 3-2005 |
Here is the NASB version of Romans 2:17-29. But if you bear the name "Jew" and rely upon the Law and boast in God, 18and know His will and approve the things that are essential, being instructed out of the Law, 19and are confident that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness, 20a corrector of the foolish, a teacher of the immature, having in the Law the embodiment of knowledge and of the truth, 21you, therefore, who teach another, do you not teach yourself? You who preach that one shall not steal, do you steal? 22You who say that one should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23You who boast in the Law, through your breaking the Law, do you dishonor God? 24For "THE NAME OF GOD IS BLASPHEMED AMONG THE GENTILES BECAUSE OF YOU," just as it is written. 25For indeed circumcision is of value if you practice the Law; but if you are a transgressor of the Law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision? 27And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law? 28For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God. In Jesus, Patria | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 620 Registered: 11-2005 |
Dale, this is not from the Clear Word Bible. It is a paraphrase that I did from the "Message Bible. If you substitute Seventh-day Adventist for Jew, and the Seventh-day Sabbath for circumcision, it fits pretty close, don't you think? I called it the Clearer Word Bible. <grin> Gilbert Jorgensen (Message edited by jorgfe on August 22, 2007) | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6618 Registered: 12-2003 |
OK, Gilbert--I mistook the quote, too! (I didn't bother to look it up in the Clear Word I have in front of me...!) Colleen | ||
| Randyg Registered user Username: Randyg Post Number: 433 Registered: 12-2004 |
Hey Gilbert, I thought that was pretty clever when I read it last night. I figured if Jack can do it, why not Gilbert. A little massage of the Message. | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 630 Registered: 11-2005 |
I'm genuinely sorry that I misled anyone. That was not my attempt. I thought that the bold title, "The Seventh-day Sabbath Can't Save You" would certainly get everyone's attention. I don't think you will ever find that in the Clear Word Bible. I just felt that we needed a "Clearer" Bible than the pathetic one produced by Jack Blanco. The substitution of Seventh-day Adventist and the Sabbath-day Sabbath seemed so fitting for the text in Romans. I figured we could use a little humor.  Again, I apologize. Gilbert Jorgensen | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 2051 Registered: 10-2004  |
Gilbert, I understood what you were trying to do, but it doesn't seem to work too well, especially towards the end regarding being a "Seventh-day Adventist." Since Adventism is a false religion, it just doesn't work to substitute "Seventh-day Adventist" for "Jew." Perhaps that's why some thought it was an SDA publication! Jeremy | ||
| Dale Registered user Username: Dale Post Number: 13 Registered: 4-2007 |
Gilbert, I had but little time when I made my post to you about the Clear Word. I should have known to look it up also. In any event, I still cannot understand why the SDA church does not take the Clear Word out of all Adventist Book Centers. But, then, I think I know why. They really like it. So many SDAs read it thinking they are reading a Word of God. | ||
| Marysroses Registered user Username: Marysroses Post Number: 129 Registered: 4-2007 |
I spend very little time around Adventists these days. A few 'family' visits to mom's church to make her happy. I have personally seen people using the Clear Word for bible study in SS class. I have asked a few questions, and I am shocked that they do not seem to realize it is a paraphrase, and more than just that, its one with an agenda. To them, its just a better translation than the other ones out there. That those who have to know better (you'd think at least) do not seem to correct people that its not a translation, is egregious behavior on the part of the leaders. I could rant all night about this, but I'll spare you, its preaching to the choir. MarysRoses | ||
| Marysroses Registered user Username: Marysroses Post Number: 130 Registered: 4-2007 |
UGH, I left out the latest outrage regarding the Clear Word. I have met someone, who has been told, and seems to believe, that the Rosetta Stone contained some clues that allowed the Bible to be translated better. That person exclusively uses the Clear Word and thinks it is the best translation available and should be used by everyone, non SDA included. This would be comical if it wasn't so sad. MarysRoses | ||
| Marysroses Registered user Username: Marysroses Post Number: 131 Registered: 4-2007 |
Hm.... Maybe, come to think of it, maybe the Clear Word WAS originally written in hieroglyphics, which would indeed make the Rosetta stone handy... I just keep picking at this like a scab, must be bedtime, God Bless MarysRoses (Message edited by MarysRoses on August 25, 2007) | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 996 Registered: 10-2002  |
I am so glad my heart left Adventism long before the Clear Word became more popularized. Thank You, God. Please help people get addicted to the real Word, and be left dry and unsatisfied with the tampered one in Jesus' name, amen. | ||
| Susans Registered user Username: Susans Post Number: 441 Registered: 8-2006 |
I actually gave the Clear Word to my mother and brother as Christmas presents about 10 years ago. I need to tell them to throw that trash away! Susan | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 4200 Registered: 3-2004 |
I almost bought one when I saw it in use at the last SDA church I attended here in Vegas. Thank you God, that I did not get one. The Holy spirit restrained me. Diana | ||
| Insearchof Registered user Username: Insearchof Post Number: 152 Registered: 8-2005 |
This is related, but not about the 'Clear Word'... Have any of you had opportunity to look at 'The Message' paraphrase? My wife bought one some time before we began our study out of Adventism and since we have studied the New Covenant, she has been particularly enlightened by reading 'The Message'. I have not looked at it all that much and have really only been exposed to it when she wants me to hear a particular section. Just curious what your thoughts might be... ISO | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 809 Registered: 7-2004  |
After coming out of so much false doctrine, accuracy is highly important to me. For that reason, I cringe at any paraphrases, particularly the more "off" it is. The Message, in my opinion, is way off. However, at least it doesn't have an agenda as the Clear Word does, so for that reason it's not as bad as it could be. At the Christian University I recently graduated from, they exclusively used "The Message" for weekly class devotions. I was often struck by how watered down it was compared to what the Bible really says. If anyone is interested in an easy-to-read paraphrase that is much closer to being accurate, the New Living Translation is quite good. I guess I'm not certain if the NLT is a paraphrase or not, but it's kind of in-between a good, accurate translation and the typical paraphrase Bible. (Message edited by Raven on August 26, 2007) | ||
| Susans Registered user Username: Susans Post Number: 442 Registered: 8-2006 |
Raven, I agree with you, and stay away from paraphrases myself. Having used the NKJ bible for years, now my study bible is the NASB. However, for devotional and everyday reading, I like the NLT. It's not a paraphrase, but a translation, similar to the NIV in that it's a dynamic-equivalence instead of word for word translation like the NASB. Susan | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 998 Registered: 10-2002 |
"The Message" works best in the first five books of the NT which are more of stories. It starts to get more watered-down when it hits the epistles. It can be valuable for the stories because often our heads get attached to language and we miss the general impact of what happened because the language is so familiar. When you're looking at a difficult passage or want to get more out of a passage, a good spiritual exercise that you can do for yourself is to make your own paraphrase. Sometimes a passage needs to be taken out of the familiar religious language and put into more everyday terms. It's not to be done for dogmatic reasons, but it is a process of contextualizing. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6654 Registered: 12-2003 |
We have The Message, and it is nice in many ways. But as Ramone said, it's more watered-down. I would say that if a person were to choose between reading The Messaage or not reading the Bible, he should definitley read The Message. I would prefer the NLT, though, because it is a translation but it reads very "conversationally". For more detailed study, I'd pick a literal translation like NASB or ESV. I also like NIV for reading--but when I memorize, I use NASB. The Clear Word should be completely abandoned along with the JWs version. Colleen | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1232 Registered: 4-2000  |
There are so many wonderful English Bibles to choose from these days. My library has more than thirty different translations and paraphrases, but my personal Bible is a leather-bound NASB. Some other excellent translations high on my list are the ESV, HSCB, and NRSV. Unfortunately, my NASB is a bit too large for me to enjoy taking to church. I need the slimline edition as well. Thus, I end up taking my old genuine leather-bound KJV or the ESV to church and Sunday School. We also have several large-print Bibles for home use. Interestingly, large-print Bibles seem to highlight each word because the words are so much bigger. In a real sense, the large-print editions make every God-breathed word seem more important and noticeable. Consequently, the large-print Bibles seem to better highlight the verbal inspiration of Scripture. You don't have a giant-print Bible in your home library yet? Well, dear reader, just wait until your eyes get a bit more mature (smile). I have a blind friend who usually takes only one Braille book of the Bible to church due to its giant size and extra weight. Thankfully, most of us are blessed in being able to carry the entire library of sixty-six inspired books to church.
Dennis Fischer (Message edited by Dennis on August 26, 2007) | ||
| Insearchof Registered user Username: Insearchof Post Number: 154 Registered: 8-2005 |
Dennis, I have not 'graduated' to GIANT print yet...but, I have carried a large print NKJV for quite a while! Thanks for the points of view regarding paraphrases. I know that one reason my wife enjoys the Message is because it makes her consider a different perspective than what she was raised with as an SDA. Her actual study Bible is an NASB. ISO |
