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Jorgfe
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Username: Jorgfe

Post Number: 667
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Friday, August 31, 2007 - 9:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

I have often seen the lovely Jesus, that He is a person. I asked Him if His Father was a person and had a form like Himself. Said Jesus, "I am in the express image of my Father's person." Early Writings, page 77




Gilbert Jorgensen
Luzisbornagain
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Username: Luzisbornagain

Post Number: 117
Registered: 7-2007
Posted on Friday, August 31, 2007 - 10:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How is that so if no one has seen Him face to face especially without being consumed by His presence.
Larry
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Username: Larry

Post Number: 135
Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Saturday, September 01, 2007 - 8:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What's the deal with the usage of the word "express"?

Would it have meant anything different to leave that word out? Or did she just get a new Adjective-Synonym crossreference dictionary and was itchy to try it out.

Also curious is that here she supposedly has her Savior in front of her, Who is EVERYTHING to her, yet her mind is wandering to such technicalities such as a) was God a person, and b) is His form like yours?

In another one of her writings, she is checking the food reserves at the big table in heaven, and notices the food level has not diminished at all! Sheesh!
Susans
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Post Number: 466
Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Saturday, September 01, 2007 - 8:32 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ha Larry! Checking the food reserves at the big table. That made me laugh SO hard!

Actually, some of those "visions" remind me of that woman who wrote a book about a near death experience. I think her name was Betty something...she was a Mormon. She went to heaven and asked Jesus to know what it felt like to be a rose, so she was magically put inside the rose so she could know first hand (this is as my memory recalls-I read the book about 15 years ago).

Funny how when you see Jesus for the first time some of the things you are interested in.

Oh, BTW, this woman didn't want to go back to earth either, in fact she argued with Jesus about staying.

Susan
River
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Username: River

Post Number: 1402
Registered: 9-2006


Posted on Saturday, September 01, 2007 - 3:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ha! Checking out the food preserves!

So funny! :-)

River
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 6707
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Saturday, September 01, 2007 - 4:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gilbert, that quote is pretty shocking in its implications. It says that God has a literal body. Yet John 4:26 says "God is Spirit" and goes on to say that true worshipers must worship Him in spirit and in truth.

God does not have a body. Jesus, because of God's great kindness to us, took on a human body so He could die a human death for human sin. Yet because He was our Creator, only He could take responsibility for humanity's sin. So God became man in order to die our literal human death--but with the divine authority to die that death in the place of every one of His human creatures who received Him.

That quote of Ellen's reveals that she really didn't see the real Jesus—or have an inkling of the significance of Jesus' incarnation.

Colleen
Jeremy
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Username: Jeremy

Post Number: 2099
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Posted on Saturday, September 01, 2007 - 8:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The EGW/SDA terrible heresy of God being corporeal (having a body by nature) means in itself that they have a different god. Also, by teaching that the Father has a separate body, that necessitates the teaching of polytheism--that there are two or more physical Divine Beings (gods).

Ellen's quoting of her "jesus" where he says "I am in the express image of my Father's person"--is a misquote of Hebrews 1:3 KJV, which says that Jesus IS "the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person"! Ellen (or her "jesus") is using that verse (actually a misquote of it!) to say that Jesus is a duplicate or copy of the Father, and that even being in physical form!

Actually, what Hebrews is saying is that, as it says in the NIV, Jesus is "the exact representation of his being" (Hebrews 1:3 NIV).

But not only did EGW teach that Jesus was a "copy" (and a physical copy at that!) of the Father, she even taught that Jesus was a CREATED "copy" of the Father:


quote:

"The Eternal Father, the unchangeable one, gave his only begotten Son, tore from his bosom Him who was made in the express image of his person, and sent him down to earth to reveal how greatly he loved mankind." (Ellen G. White, Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, 07-09-1895, "The Duty of the Minister and the People," paragraph 14.)




Jeremy
Jorgfe
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Username: Jorgfe

Post Number: 685
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Saturday, September 01, 2007 - 10:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jeremy, your conclusions are absolutely right -- and shocking! I really think that most Seventh-day Adventists have no idea what Ellen White wrote, and when they find out they just consider it to be "additional light"!

Gilbert Jorgensen
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 6716
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Sunday, September 02, 2007 - 10:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree--most Adventists don't know what Ellen really says. This is a subject about which I have strong feelings. The problem is that Adventists don't really know, in general, what Ellen said about Jesus--but they are taught that Jesus could have sinned, that He is in some undefinable way less powerful or authoritative or stern that the Father. They sense Him to be "little god" to the Father's "Big God". They are taught He had no advantage as a man that they do not have. They are taught that if they access the Holy Spirit as well as He did, they, too, can live sinless lives if they live long enought. They have no concept of Jesus being born spiritually alive as opposed to their being born spiritually dead. They are taught that Jesus was "sinless", yet, as my MIL has explained, He has a "fallen nature" as opposed to a "sinful nature". His "fallen nature" is the result of inheriting Mary's genes. (They misunderstand that the seat of sin is the spirit, not the body.)

Adventists do not know Jesus as Almighty God. Ellen's legacy is alive and very healthy within Adventist teaching. She's not necessarily quoted--but she is the ground and base of all Adventist belief. Adventists do not relate to Jesus as He is because their unique theology does not allow for Him to be Almighty God. They may say the words, but they don't know what those words mean because the non-Trinitarian roots of Adventism still shapes the way they interpret the Bible. Just read the Clear Word if you doubt it!

Colleen
Laurie
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Username: Laurie

Post Number: 103
Registered: 6-2007
Posted on Wednesday, September 05, 2007 - 6:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Colleen

Yes Yes Yes to what you said above. I was taught and believed all you said above about Jesus and didn't even know it! For me, this has been an even bigger discovery than the truth about the sabbath.

Laurie
Reb
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Username: Reb

Post Number: 673
Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2007 - 3:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I actually had an Adventist tell me I was wrong when I said I believe God the Father is a Spirit. They really think He has a body.

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