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Jorgfe
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Username: Jorgfe

Post Number: 818
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2007 - 11:48 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

I have seen that the 1843 chart was directed by the hand of the Lord, and that it should not be altered; that the figures were as He wanted them; that His hand was over and hid a mistake in some of the figures, so that none could see it, until His hand was removed.
Early Writings, page 74



quote:

I saw that God was in the proclamation of the time in 1843. It was His design to arouse the people and bring them to a testing point, where they should decide for or against the truth.
Early Writings, page 232



quote:

I saw the disappointment of the trusting ones, as they did not see their Lord at the expected time. It had been God's purpose to conceal the future and to bring His people to a point of decision. Without the preaching of definite time for the coming of Christ, the work designed of God would not have been accomplished. Satan was leading very many to look far in the future for the great events connected with the judgment and the end of probation. It was necessary that the people be brought to seek earnestly for a present preparation.

As the time passed, those who had not fully received the light of the angel united with those who had despised the message, and they turned upon the disappointed ones with ridicule. Angels marked the situation of Christ's professed followers. The passing of the definite time had tested and proved them, and very many were weighed in the balance and found wanting. They loudly claimed to be Christians, yet in almost every particular failed to follow Christ. Satan exulted at the state of the professed followers of Jesus.
Early Writings, page 246



quote:

William Miller -
God sent His angel to move upon the heart of a farmer who had not believed the Bible, to lead him to search the prophecies. Angels of God repeatedly visited that chosen one, to guide his mind and open to his understanding prophecies which had ever been dark to God's people. The commencement of the chain of truth was given to him, and he was led on to search for link after link, until he looked with wonder and admiration upon the Word of God. He saw there a perfect chain of truth. That Word which he had regarded as uninspired now opened before his vision in its beauty and glory. He saw that one portion of Scripture explains another, and when one passage was closed to his understanding, he found in another part of the Word that which explained it. He regarded the sacred Word of God with joy and with the deepest respect and awe.

As he followed down the prophecies, he saw that the inhabitants of the earth were living in the closing scenes of this world's history, yet they knew it not. He looked at the churches and saw that they were corrupt; they had taken their affections from Jesus and placed them on the world; they were seeking for worldly honor, instead of that honor which cometh from above; grasping for worldly riches, instead of laying up their treasure in heaven. He could see hypocrisy, darkness, and death everywhere. His spirit was stirred within him. God called him to leave his farm, as He called Elisha to leave his oxen and the field of his labor to follow Elijah. With trembling, William Miller began to unfold to the people the mysteries of the kingdom of God, carrying his hearers down through the prophecies to the second advent of Christ. With every effort he gained strength. As John the Baptist heralded the first advent of Jesus and prepared the way for His coming, so William Miller and those who joined with him proclaimed the second advent of the Son of God.
Early Writings, page 229



quote:

Angels of God accompanied William Miller in his mission. He was firm and undaunted, fearlessly proclaiming the message committed to his trust. A world lying in wickedness and a cold, worldly church were enough to call into action all his energies and lead him willingly to endure toil, privation, and suffering. Although opposed by professed Christians and the world, and buffeted by Satan and his angels, he ceased not to preach the everlasting gospel to crowds wherever he was invited, sounding far and near the cry, "Fear God, and give glory to Him; for the hour of His judgment is come."
Early Writings, page 232




From what Ellen White says that she was "shown" we learn:
1. the 1843 chart was directed by the hand of the Lord
2. it should not be altered
3. the figures were as He wanted them
4. His hand was over and hid a mistake in some of the figures
5. (He did this) so that none could see it, until His hand was removed
6. God was in the proclamation of the time in 1843
7. It was His design to arouse the people and bring them to a testing point, where they should decide for or against the truth.
8. It had been God's purpose to conceal the future and to bring His people to a point of decision.
9. Without the preaching of definite time for the coming of Christ, the work designed of God would not have been accomplished.
10. It was necessary that the people be brought to seek earnestly for a present preparation.
11. The passing of the definite time had tested and proved them, and very many were weighed in the balance and found wanting.
12. God sent His angel to move upon the heart of a farmer who had not believed the Bible, to lead him to search the prophecies.
13. Angels of God repeatedly visited that chosen one, to guide his mind and open to his understanding prophecies which had ever been dark to God's people.
14. The commencement of the chain of truth was given to him
15. he was led on to search for link after link
16. He saw there a perfect chain of truth.
17. He saw that one portion of Scripture explains another
18. when one passage was closed to his understanding, he found in another part of the Word that which explained it
19. God called him to leave his farm, as He called Elisha to leave his oxen and the field of his labor to follow Elijah.
20. Angels of God accompanied William Miller in his mission.
21. He was firm and undaunted, fearlessly proclaiming the message committed to his trust
22. opposed by professed Christians and the world
23. buffeted by Satan and his angels
24. he ceased not to preach the everlasting gospel


Former Seventh-day Adventist pastor, Dale Ratzlaff covers this, a well as William Miller's "proofs", in much greater detail in his book, Cultic Doctrine of Seventh-day Adventists.
http://www.ratzlaf.com/Qstore/Qstore.cgi?CMD=011&PROD=1001718585

Gilbert Jorgensen

It has been 162 Years, 10 Months, and 27 Days since October 22, 1844
Laurie
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Username: Laurie

Post Number: 114
Registered: 6-2007
Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2007 - 12:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This may sound harsh, but when I read where she claimed that God intentionally presented false information to his people as a test that was it for me. The thought of stepping foot into a SDA church literally made me want to vomit.

Laurie
Jeremy
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Username: Jeremy

Post Number: 2153
Registered: 10-2004


Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2007 - 2:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow, Gilbert, thanks for posting those quotes.

So, what she is saying is that those who quit believing "god's" lie after "god" had been proven to be a liar, were weighed in the balance and found wanting and "god" refused to save them.

And people think that this is the same holy, righteous God that we Christians worship?!?!

I want nothing to do with the SDA lying "god."

How can anyone call Adventism a "Christian" church?! They clearly do NOT have the same God as Christianity!

Jeremy
Jorgfe
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Username: Jorgfe

Post Number: 819
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2007 - 2:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Like Randy says, Ellen's writings speak for themselves!

Gilbert Jorgensen

It has been 162 Years, 10 Months, and 27 Days since October 22, 1844
River
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Username: River

Post Number: 1484
Registered: 9-2006


Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2007 - 4:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jeremy,
Amen.
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 6819
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2007 - 7:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Amen from me, too.

That heinous claim that God "held his hand" over Miller's mistake is what finally woke me up. I remember reading that passage in Dale's Cultic Doctrine and realizing with an almost physical reaction that Ellen wasn't just misguided or "not a prophet". She accused God of lying because the "ends justified the means".

How dare she???

I realized then that she was a false prophet. Absolutely nothing she said was good or "devotional" or worthy of being heeded. No more "well, she might be right..."

The parts of her writings that sound "good" cannot be lauded or heeded. They are, as someone (I can't remember who) has said, the sugar she used to get the unsuspecting to swallow the poison. And even if some argue that she "didn't know what she was doing", satan did know. He has created an elegant deception.

Ellen is a false prophet. There is no way to excuse her.

Colleen
Larry
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Username: Larry

Post Number: 181
Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Wednesday, September 19, 2007 - 12:10 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I find the very beginning nucleus of the sda movement (as Gilbert has outlined) the best place to lay the ax. It is easily shown that she calls God a dealer in deception and that deception a wonderful truth. If you are trying to disprove adventism in 2007 terms, it can get pretty complicated if you pick the right topic.

And I never leave it unsaid that there was first a deception before there was a disappointment. What else would you call 1843? Wrong time and wrong event! Neither happened. Ditto for 1844. Sheer deception. It does not suddenly become truth.

I am sure that you could plug in the term "montanist" in the above quotes, and they would read about the same. The montanists were very early timesetters whose movement lasted around 200 years over 1800 years ago. Still, they were purveyors of deception. Not one single timesetting movement has ever told the truth. Why would Miller be the first? sheesh!

Here's a link to more timesetters
River
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Username: River

Post Number: 1489
Registered: 9-2006


Posted on Wednesday, September 19, 2007 - 4:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, I really like your saying Larry, "there was first a deception before there was a disappointment."

And yes, the "very beginning nucleus" goes right back to the time when they refused to believe what the words says "no man knows the day nor the hour"

The great disappointment hasn't ceased either, they look to the Bible to try to support Adventism and they are disappointed, for assurance and they are disappointed,to get rid of the cognitive dissonance and they are disappointed, to unanswered questions and they are disappointed, try for perfection and they are disappointed.

Living in deception of that magnitude is just one big disappointment.
River
Flyinglady
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Username: Flyinglady

Post Number: 4315
Registered: 3-2004


Posted on Wednesday, September 19, 2007 - 6:50 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That is why we need to pray for all SDAs. Remember our prayer circle every Friday at sundown and Saturday at 1 PM, PT.
We, who are no longer under that deception, can rejoice and be free to worship God without that cognitive dissonance.
Diana
Jorgfe
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Username: Jorgfe

Post Number: 824
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Wednesday, September 19, 2007 - 11:07 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Larry said:

quote:

I find the very beginning nucleus of the sda movement the best place to lay the ax.


You are absolutely right. I find debating current theological points with SDA's to be very frustrating, because they are in such deep denial. Since the Seventh-day Adventist Church tries to avoid acquainting them with its beginneings they have no defense for that. All of the falsehood and deception in the beginning is mind-boggling.

Gilbert Jorgensen

It has been 162 Years, 10 Months, and 28 Days since October 22, 1844
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 6826
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Wednesday, September 19, 2007 - 6:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So true.

Colleen
Agapetos
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Username: Agapetos

Post Number: 1057
Registered: 10-2002


Posted on Wednesday, September 19, 2007 - 8:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Very true, everyone! Just go straight to the foundation. Speak the gospel. And pray, pray, pray first!

Larry, that link on timesetters throughout history is amazing! It is so incredible to see it and see the common patterns of behavior from timesetters and how SDA fits right in. The same denial of being wrong, the same urge to continue instead of repent, the same cultic fringe relation to the rest of Christianity, and the same fruit of having some kinds of extreme teachings.

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