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Churchavguy
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Username: Churchavguy

Post Number: 1
Registered: 8-2007
Posted on Tuesday, October 16, 2007 - 1:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello,

I have been a fairly long-time reader of this forum, and finally I want to actually actively participate. The truth is, I am n ot a former Adventist. My background is Catholic, which I rejected some time in high school. In college I got involved with a Christian group where I accepted Christ as my Lord and Savior. I have been drawn to this group because I have married an Adventist. I did this with my eyes open, and fully aware of what I was doing, and convinced that this is what God wanted me to do.

I have a million stories about my wife wanting me to embrace the Adventist doctrines, and my wanting her to renounce them. It is a losing proposition unless God is behind it, by which I mean every attempt I have made to discredit Adventism has been a failure, and her attempts have been equally unsuccessful.

I have studied Adventist specific doctrines and the more I study, the more error and outright deception I see. This group has helped me a great deal in my study and research, and I hope, in my real understanding of the love and freedoms in Christ.

Since this is my first message, I would like to thank so many of you for your clear insight and convictions, knowledge and Godly council.

I suppose I should say something specific: Walter Martin claimed that there were three distinct kinds of Adventist. The first he called evangilical, because they mostly ignored EGW and the specific doctrines and centered on Jesus and the Bible. The second he calles Social Adventists, who were mostly liberal and barely pushed doctrine of any kind other then the "Jesus loves everybody" kind of thing. The third type he called traditional, and they were the EGW preaching, investigative judgement believeing type. My wife is definitely the evangilical type, but she believes in 1844, in EGW, in the IJ, and especially in the Sabbath. I pray for her, and she prays for me. prayers can't hurt!

I pray I can contribute here, even without a personal adventist background.

In Christ, thank you all!
Luke
Dennis
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Username: Dennis

Post Number: 1300
Registered: 4-2000


Posted on Tuesday, October 16, 2007 - 2:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Luke,

A warm FAF welcome! We look forward to your participation in our discussions. Today, October 16, is the annual Freedom Day at our house. Today marks exactly seven years since God called us out of the darkness and deception of Adventism. Indeed, there is wonderful, abundant life beyond Adventism.

Our sovereign God never goes on a rescue mission that fails. My heart still aches for those caught in the complicated grip of Adventism. Collectively, my wife Sylvia and I have over 100 years of experience in Adventism. We utilize this experience in our online chaplaincy ministry. To God be all the honor and glory!

In awe of His grace,

Dennis Fischer
Cloudy
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Username: Cloudy

Post Number: 57
Registered: 7-2007
Posted on Tuesday, October 16, 2007 - 3:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Luke,

I also welcome you to FAF.

I can imagine the cognitive dissonance your wife must be experiencing to be believing the SDA doctrines, but mostly ignoring them to center on Jesus and the Bible. Speaking from my own experience, it is really H-A-R-D to do. It was somewhat more doable when I lived where there were so many others attempting the same mental/ spiritual gymnastics, but when I moved to an area where SDA's are predominantly traditional it became extremely painful for me to have to regularly listen to the traditional sda message. I had to face that the SDA church will never be able to be gospel-centered while it clings to anti-gospel beliefs.

I will be looking forward to your contributions and perspective.

Cloudy
River
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Username: River

Post Number: 1628
Registered: 9-2006


Posted on Tuesday, October 16, 2007 - 3:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Luke,
A warm welcome to the forum, I look forward to your contributions and your perspective.

River
Larry
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Username: Larry

Post Number: 254
Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Tuesday, October 16, 2007 - 5:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Luke, good to have you on board.

I find this sda thing very easy to disprove when the intitial roots are examined.

1. William Miller was teaching timesetting for the year 1843, which is the same as lying because the Bible says in several places "no man knows the day, hour, or season" I think Acts 1:7 is the seasons one.

2. Ellen and James both participated in this timesetting, essentially calling God a liar. Wm. Miller had 15 proofs of time, only one of which was the 2300 day thing that sda's currently hold on to.

3. Ellens whole family got thrown out of the Methodist church. Official documents and notes about it ARE on the web for you to study.

4. 1843 was the initial year that Miller predicted Christs return would happen. 1843 came and went. Apparently Miller had not told the truth, so we can now call him a liar. Miller and associates (I think James White might have been one of those associates) then set the date for Jesus' return for spring of 1844, which failed again, making him look like a liar once more. Then in the fall of 1844, it failed again. After that, there was no more masses to preach to, but Ellen and James went about agitating, not quite "getting it" that they had been partaking in some very unbiblical theology, mainly lies.

5. Now the spinning of lies becomes even more intense. Someone finally got word of Hiram Edsons cornfield vision (holy to the most holy) to Ellen, her eyes rolled back and she jittered and twitched, finally she gave it a visionary approval. The 2300 day prophecy was really about events in heaven that could not be proven or disproven by mere earthlings. Now those who would become adventists had a toehold.

6. But the thing you have to remember is that God does not ever tell earthlings when He is coming. God does not enjoy being called a liar. God was not in the 1843 and 1844 timesetting, but the devil was. Lies do not ever become truth. Timesetting does not become truth. Adventism was formed on a foundation of lies. And it has lied ever since. There is no truth in it. I assert that adventism will get you killed real dead.

7. sda's claim that God never gets stuff wrong (Millers timesetting) but man does. I maintain that God did not get any words wrong when He used Balaams donkey to talk. God does not send error, ever. God is perfect and never gets anything wrong.

Hope that helps.
Flyinglady
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Username: Flyinglady

Post Number: 4397
Registered: 3-2004


Posted on Tuesday, October 16, 2007 - 7:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Luke, welcome to FAF. Glad you have come out of lurker mode.
Leave the convincing and convicting up to God and the Holy Spirit. Just love your wife.
Diana
Snowboardingmom
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Username: Snowboardingmom

Post Number: 366
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Tuesday, October 16, 2007 - 9:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Welcome to FAF, Luke!! Glad to have you here.

Grace
Snowboardingmom
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Username: Snowboardingmom

Post Number: 367
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Tuesday, October 16, 2007 - 9:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dennis--Congratulations! What an awesome anniversary to celebrate!!

Grace
Randyg
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Username: Randyg

Post Number: 502
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Tuesday, October 16, 2007 - 10:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Luke, welcome on board.
Randyg
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Username: Randyg

Post Number: 503
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Tuesday, October 16, 2007 - 10:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I forgot to say,

every one of us here, had a tentative emergence from the shadows.

(except for maybe Larry, he steps boldly!)
Pnoga
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Username: Pnoga

Post Number: 35
Registered: 1-2007
Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2007 - 4:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Welcome to FAF luke!
Lordsanointed
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Username: Lordsanointed

Post Number: 16
Registered: 8-2007
Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2007 - 9:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Welcome to FAF, Luke.
I´m not an ex-sda, but here, I have learned so much.

Lordsanointed
Pheeki
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Username: Pheeki

Post Number: 898
Registered: 1-2003
Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2007 - 9:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Larry, all your points are correct...I have only one thing to add...Miller was sorry for datesetting and later repented. The White's did not repent...they just trudged along with the deception.
Grace_alone
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Username: Grace_alone

Post Number: 788
Registered: 6-2006


Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2007 - 9:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Luke! Welcome.

I'm a "never-been" and married to an SDA as well. Boy, can I relate. We've been together for over 20 years and thankfully my husband has been coming to my Lutheran Church for the last 4 years. He doesn't want to become a member, and still believes in much of what he was taught growing up. His family is very active SDA under the traditional label. They've learned to love me, but I'm sure consider me "lost".

Hang in there. For years I would just question EGW and point out important Bible verses to my husband, (1 Cor. 15, Rom. 8:1). I do believe they have made an impression. He also told me a couple months ago that he doesn't believe that the SDA church is the "remnant" anymore. So miracles can happen!! Just continue to love on your wife and pray that the Lord will set her free.

Glad to have you along!

:-) Leigh Anne
River
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Username: River

Post Number: 1631
Registered: 9-2006


Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2007 - 10:12 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Leigh Anne,

If the church catches on fire and he rushes in to save the coffee pot, you'll know he made it over to Lutheran. :-)

River
River
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Username: River

Post Number: 1632
Registered: 9-2006


Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2007 - 10:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If you see he's made it over to Lutern and you start jumping up and down shouting "Praise the Lord" in church, he'll know you made it over to Pentecostal and he's got to catch up again. :-)

River
River
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Username: River

Post Number: 1633
Registered: 9-2006


Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2007 - 10:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If he brings home a cow and demands you milk it while he watches Fargo reruns, you'll know he gone too far.:-)
River
Jorgfe
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Username: Jorgfe

Post Number: 896
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2007 - 10:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Luke,

You will find a warm "family" of supporters here. All of us can relate in one way or another.

Regarding Adventism, there are two ways to relate to it -- through the head and through the heart. Each of us have some of both. I am very analytical, while my wife is more influenced by things that those of us that are so logical can't put our fingers on.

The more I studied Adventism the more "dead rats" I found in the "attic" of Adventism. The stench forced me to re-evaluate my thinking in many areas.

My wife tends to get indigestion when presented with very many logical arguments. She, too, felt that the "evangelical" side of Adventism offered hope.

The more I studied, the more problems I found with Adventist doctrine in general. I began attending Christian Bible studies at a nearby church. That is easy enough for inquiring Adventist to do without getting slammed by their spouse for the Mark of the Beast, worshipping on Sunday, etc. I strongly encourage any inquiring Adventist to, at the very least, take this step.

Fellowshipping with Christians who have not had their minds warped by Ellen White's teachings is absolutely critical. It gives a group outside of Adventism to associate with. In many cases an Adventist spouse will also agree to come since it is not on Sunday.

Since I was an exiting Seventh-day Adventist (two years ago) I began attending a local Christian fellowship on Sundays. That meant that I went both on Saturdays and Sundays. My young son also went with me on Sundays.

About a year ago my son and I totally quit going to the Seventh-day Adventist church. Since that time we have been attending a local Baptist church.

For my wife, the most compelling reason to migrate out of Adventism was because my 10-year old son and I had started attending the Baptist church, and no longer attended the Seventh-day Adventist Church. She still attended the Seventh-day Adventist church by herself. After about three months she began attending the Baptist church with my son and me. Shortly after that she dropped out of the SDA worship services and just continued attending the Sabbath School class.

Over about the last four months her interest in continuing attendance at the Seventh-day Adventist church has been waning. For quite some time she has been showing small signs of disenchantment with many of the things Ellen White wrote.

Recently she came back home after Sabbath School study and announced that the leader was using the SDA Clear Word Bible, and that it changed the meaning of many of the things in her King James Bible. The Holy Spirit is clearly working on her heart.

Each evening we read a chapter from the Bible for family worship and over time she has discovereed that many of the stories we were taught have been embellished and modified by Ellen White.

My wife is very musical. About six months ago she decided to start playing with the brass ensemble up front for the Baptist worship service. They play for both the first and second service. I take her over each Sunday at 7:30 am for weekly Sunday morning practice and the first service, and then come back home and pick up my son and return for the 9:45 Bible Study class and 11:00 am service. So she is participating in both services!

Rather than discrediting Adventism, I suggest that the most successful approach might be to get her to attend a Wednesday night Bible Study at a nearby Christian church. Once your wife is comfortable with that encourage her to attend on the weekends with you. It will be easier for her to accept attending both churches than forcing her to first renounce Adventism. I think it is really a fear of the unknown.

I also consider evening family Bible study to be very important. I would recommend avoinding topical study that creates confrontation. We read a chapter an evening, and discuss it for a few minutes. We started with John and are completing the remaining New Testament. Then we will staart with Genesis and read through Luke. After that we will study whatever the Lord leads us to study. It takes about 20 minutes, and is a fun time together for my wife, 12-year old son, and me. It is not a time for heavy doctrinal discussion, but rather a time to enjoy God's Word together.

Gilbert Jorgensen

(Message edited by jorgfe on October 17, 2007)
Gcfrankie
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Username: Gcfrankie

Post Number: 54
Registered: 1-2007
Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2007 - 12:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Welcome Luke, I am transitioning out of SDA. I just read a really good article written by Pastor David DePinho. You can goole his name. He was also contented to stay in the SDA religion but God had other ideas.
May our loving God bless and be with you and your family as you walk in His light.
Wally
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Username: Wally

Post Number: 9
Registered: 4-2002
Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2007 - 12:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Luke,

Welcome - good to see your post. I am also a non-SDA married to an SDA. This forum has been a tremendous blessing in helping me better understand my wife's background and beliefs. I would characterize her as "evangelical" as you describe above.

Blessings,

Wally
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 7003
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2007 - 12:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Welcome, Luke! It's good to have you participating with us. You are very welcome here.

Gilbert's advice re: helping the Adventist spouse get connected to a non-Sunday Christian Bible study is good advice. I know quite a few former SDAs in our area who first went to Bible Study Fellowship, a non-denominational, international Bible study, for several years. They began to question Adventism as they systematically studied through the Bible. At our church, both men's and women's Bible studies have attracted Adventists from the local community. These studies meet during the week and don't carry the stigma of the "mark of the beast" that Sunday carries. It's a good way to start experiencing Christian fellowship and teaching.

Colleen
Churchavguy
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Username: Churchavguy

Post Number: 3
Registered: 8-2007
Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2007 - 5:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow! I am overwhelmed with welcome. Thank you all so much.

This coming Monday, yes, October 22, will be our seventh wedding anaversary. There was some discussion of our marriage being dommed because it was on the date of the great dissapointment. I just told people who said things that it was about time something really great happened on that day. :-)

Suffice it to say that I consider you all to be experts in this field, and I will prayerfully take all the advice to heart, as I have been doing since I found this site some months ago.

One thing, it took me FOREVER to figure out what the abbreviation IJ stood for. I guess I am not up with the SDA lingo yet. I have figured it out by now, but there are still times I have to stop and think about what is being referred to, like SOP.

Larry, I thought I was the only person who called Hiram Edson's vision the "Cornfield Vision." I guess I was wrong. (It annoys my wife when I use that shorthand, but I don't have a better name for that event. I call the book 27 Fundamental Beliefs... "the White Book" as short hand too, even though it is sort of a light beige in color.) There is significant evidence from personal letters, diaries, and other writings that as early as the day after the great disappointment, many of the "believers" were convince that they had NOT gotten the day wrong, but the manner or action of what they had anticipated was wrong. Sigh... Faith is a tricky business.

In Christ, for His glory,

Luke
Susans
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Username: Susans

Post Number: 516
Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2007 - 6:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Welcome, Luke! We are glad you joined us and look forward to getting to know you better.

Susan
Maggiethecat
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Username: Maggiethecat

Post Number: 41
Registered: 7-2007


Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2007 - 8:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Luke and welcome! Great to 'meet' you.
Maree
Grace_alone
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Username: Grace_alone

Post Number: 789
Registered: 6-2006


Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2007 - 9:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

River, you're a nut ~ but I love nuts!!

:-) Leigh Anne
Blessed
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Username: Blessed

Post Number: 129
Registered: 1-2007
Posted on Thursday, October 18, 2007 - 5:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Welcome Luke. Looking forward to getting to know you and reading your posts.

Blessed
Philharris
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Username: Philharris

Post Number: 247
Registered: 5-2007


Posted on Thursday, October 18, 2007 - 6:45 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Luke,
You have a very fine Biblical name. You wouldn't by any chance be a doctor would you?

I am looking forward to reading more of your posts.

Phil
River
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Username: River

Post Number: 1638
Registered: 9-2006


Posted on Thursday, October 18, 2007 - 10:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There are a lotta people in our churches named Luke Phil- Luke Warm seems to be the most common name.

River

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