| Author | Message | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 1360 Registered: 11-2005 |
Exposing Adventism - Christ not good enough. Need more Ellen White! Yes! As I have transitioned out of Adventism and into Christianity, I am moving on in my walk with the Lord. It brings with it an excitement, enthusiasm, assurance, and in-depth Biblical understanding of God’s Word I never knew while under the fear and bondage of the Adventist cultic mindset with its reliance on Ellen White’s interpretation for everything. Like the apostle Paul, it energizes me to not sit idly by and say that I have no future obligation to other transitioning Adventists. The least I can do is witness for my dear Lord and Savior. I feel a renewed earnestness to expose the dark side of Adventism so that anyone who has lingering doubts is convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt about how Adventism pretends to be based on the Bible, but still actually gets its authority from the teachings of Ellen White. We must do everything we can to stop the continuing deception. Like many former Adventists, I feel a passion to do everything I can to warn others of the difference between the gospel of Adventism and the Gospel of Christ. It is in this spirit that I bring to the light of day these continuing beguiling deceptions -- traps set to ensnare those seeking to escape the cultic clutches of Adventism. We owe it to those who follow after us to share with them assurance that Adventism is indeed a very subtle form of counterfeit Christianity with a completely different gospel – a gospel based on legalism and fear, instead of the assurance that the book of Hebrews talks about. If a transitioning Adventist’s senses haven’t been assaulted enough by the mind-boggling twisted logic of Ellen White, perhaps this latest tired rant from Pacific Union Conference President, Thomas Mostert, will convince sleeping Seventh-day Adventists that at its core all the Adventist negativism hasn’t changed one bit. Not one Bible verse is quoted! No where is a passion for Christ and His infinite gift exhibited. In fact, Tom says sarcastically, “Now our emphasis is on salvation through Jesus, full and complete.” Yes, Tom. Jesus’ salvation IS full and complete! From the August 2007 Pacific Union Recorder, President’s Perspective, page 3 http://www.pacificunionrecorder.com/107/8/32861.html 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 = 0 Gilbert Jorgensen | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 5999 Registered: 3-2004  |
I can get very sad for our SDA brothers and sisters when I read things like this. As we all know, JESUS IS ALL WE NEED. I pray that any SDA that reads this will get out their Bible, not the clear word, and read it starting with the gospel of John. Then read the other gospels and the rest of the NT. Do not use any other books. Use only the Bible. Ask God to teach you. He sends the Holy Spirit to us to wake us up to His word. You will be glad you did this. With many prayers for all SDAs. Diana L | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 731 Registered: 7-2005  |
Well, for one thing, reading this makes me SOOO GLAD I'm not involved in Adventism from the inside any longer. On the other hand, because my husband is involved in Adventism, I can't get away from it! But, as you point out, Gilbert, knowing what I know about the "other side of Adventism," I, too, feel a passion for warning others about it. I suppose even if hubby were out of Adventism, I would still be involved with it on the level of wanting to warn others about it. Hmmm... Here's a question I ask myself often. Should I just keep quiet and say nothing to all my friends who are still Adventists, so that I don't dishonor my husband among them? Or should I brazenly go on the offensive in an all-out campaign to call their attention to the serious errors of the SDA system, regardless of what it might do to my marriage? It took a major effort to overcome my fears and actually quit Adventism. I stayed in it for years, when I knew it was wrong, just to keep from dishonoring my husband and putting my marriage in jeopardy. Now, I'm wondering if I should go to the next level and actually start reaching out to those still in the system by sending them regular emails, presenting the simple gospel to them unashamedly and asking them some of these wonderful questions you bring up, Gilbert. I believe the Lord will empower me to do this and do it lovingly and effectively, in His own timing. Honestwitness | ||
| Larry Registered user Username: Larry Post Number: 672 Registered: 5-2007 |
Tom Mostert sounds all bummed out that the total adherence to fanaticism = zero! Most of the points raised are him mourning the loss or de-emphasis of fanaticism. | ||
| Esther Registered user Username: Esther Post Number: 455 Registered: 5-2004 |
As someone who just brazenly spoke out I can sadly say that 90% of my SDA friends and family only got mad. So far, of the responses I got, only one friend presented a valid question and logical thought process; and one asked for more info...so if anything comes of one...it's worth it, but I can attest to how bitter they can get. If you do feel let to speak out, make sure you are prepared for the outlash. Sadly, it made me think of the jews who stuck their fingers in their ears and wouldn't hear. Ironically, I've found myself having to go to each one and apologizing for offending them. That in itself has opened up more dialogue than anything else. Anyway, the last few days have been rather intense for me...so just be sure you're ready for it, if you feel so led. I still feel there is a calling to speak out about the errors (for one, how can we expect our Christian brothers and sisters to take it seriously if we don't want to), but I now I really am amazed at the ministry of Richard and Colleen, and Dale and others who taken on the public face of "formerism"  Not only have they opened themselves up to the backlash from their own circles, but all of our circles as well. I praise God for you, Richard and Colleen! | ||
| Larry Registered user Username: Larry Post Number: 673 Registered: 5-2007 |
He just couldn't help himself could he? 10For there are many rebellious people, mere talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision group. 11They must be silenced, because they are ruining whole households by teaching things they ought not to teach - and that for the sake of dishonest gain. 12Even one of their own prophets has said, "Cretans are always liars, evil brutes, lazy gluttons." 13This testimony is true. Therefore, rebuke them sharply, so that they will be sound in the faith 14and will pay no attention to Jewish myths or to the commands of those who reject the truth. 15To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and consciences are corrupted. 16They claim to know God, but by their actions they deny Him. They are detestable, disobedient and unfit for doing anything good. Titus 1 | ||
| Jonvil Registered user Username: Jonvil Post Number: 225 Registered: 4-2007 |
"Here's a question I ask myself often. Should I just keep quiet and say nothing to all my friends who are still Adventists, so that I don't dishonor my husband among them? Or should I brazenly go on the offensive in an all-out campaign to call their attention to the serious errors of the SDA system, regardless of what it might do to my marriage? It took a major effort to overcome my fears and actually quit Adventism. I stayed in it for years, when I knew it was wrong, just to keep from dishonoring my husband and putting my marriage in jeopardy. Now, I'm wondering if I should go to the next level and actually start reaching out to those still in the system by sending them regular emails, presenting the simple gospel to them unashamedly and asking them some of these wonderful questions you bring up, Gilbert. I believe the Lord will empower me to do this and do it lovingly and effectively, in His own timing. Honestwitness" NO ONE LIKES BEING TOLD THEY’RE WRONG, we all become defensive and will fight tooth and nail to ‘prove’ we are right, whether it’s religion, politics, child rearing or even our choice of restaurants. I believe that Adventists are more insecure than most and therefore even more defensive, you don’t need to argue that the Sabbath is not a requirement, just ask them to prove they ‘keep’ it and watch the fur fly (only do this if you plan on never speaking to them again) There are times when a circuitous approach is more effective than a frontal assault, the object is not instant results but the presentation of the Gospel. I try to start a conversation with – ‘I was studying about _____ and discovered that they teach _____’ Without being obvious, I use the erroneous theology of other denominations (that just ‘happens’ to be similar to the Adventists - after all, what Adventist would agree with the JWs or LDSs or RCC or …) to present what scripture actually teaches about Christ’s divinity, works salvation, reliance on extra biblical authority … , this practically ‘forces’ them to side with scripture, and because it’s not a discussion of Adventist theology, they won’t become defensive/angry and use the fall back ‘Ellen says’, a favorite ‘proof’ text or just walk away. Being non-confrontational allows for an agreeable discussion about SOMEONE ELSE’S THEOLOGY, based solely on God’s Word. They may or may not see the parallels, I leave them (and the Holy Spirit) to draw their own conclusions, I, at least, have the opportunity to present God’s truth without divisiveness and the door is open for future dialogue. John Douglas | ||
| Larry Registered user Username: Larry Post Number: 678 Registered: 5-2007 |
John, I have used that technique on a JW friend. Instead of attacking his perverted beliefs head on, I would tell him some parallel that my "horrible" old denomination taught and why it was so wrong, knowing he would not feel attacked that way. I don't mind attacking my own past as long as the truth is dished out at the same time! | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 1361 Registered: 11-2005 |
Honestwitness, I would not encourage a confrontational approach with close friends and loved ones. It won't accomplish anything except to alienate you from those you love. I believe that our best witness is to faithfully live out what we believe. That doesn't mean that we don't ask questions when the time is right, but we walk softly and live what we believe. The best witness that your husband has to the living gospel is you. Maintaining open communication in those areas where you can is vital. The most powerful witness is one that is confident and radiates the joy that we experience when we understand that we are "adopted" sons and daughters of God. The Adventist "gospel of probation" offers no such hope. In the end the only thing that will convert your husband is when he sees in you a peace and joy that he is missing. I tried for about two years to dialog with Adventists and found that the effort was futile. They feel too threatened. I was guilty of verbalized the very fears about Adventism that they were trying so desperately to deny. My dialogs with SDA Pastor Kevin were graphic examples of this.
Adventists are "out of (spiritual) air" and they know it. It is impossible to dialog with an Adventist whose obsession is to defend Adventism at all costs. Their mind is already made up. I have come to the conclusion that for every Adventist we can lead out of Adventism it takes the same amount of effort to warn 1000 Christians who are not well grounded in the Word to stay away from Adventism in the first place. It is like trying to talk members of the Adventist offshoot, Strong City Cult, out of Adventism and into Christianity. The Lord has impressed me that I can be a most effective witness sharing each day in these venues the truths that have been opened up to me about Adventism. The Lord is the one that will lead existing Adventists to them when He feels the time is right. In the mean time I will focus primarily on warning people to stay away in the first place. In your husband's case I believe that it will do no good to criticize his association with Adventism. If you are attending a good Christian fellowship each week and can encourage him to attend with you, then I believe that you are half-way there. Once he begins attending with you then encourage him to ask questions -- but above all, do whatever it takes to get him to come week-after-week with you. If in the short term that means that you attend the SDA church with him each week, if he agrees each week to attend a Christian church with you, then I would go and attend the Sabbath School class where I can be the greatest Christian witness and cause the others in the class to dig into their Bibles as a result of my questions. You know what I mean. It would be my "mission field". That also puts your husband on the spot of either siding with them, or defending you. In either case it forces him to start studing his Bible -- which is a very good thing. But I would only go to the SDA church as part of the deal that he also attends your church (or looks around with you at other Bible-based fellowships.) Otherwise, it looks like you are the one giving in, and he is the one remaining firm. I feel very positive about the potential. We will be praying for you. Christian hugs, Gilbert | ||
| Bskillet Registered user Username: Bskillet Post Number: 9 Registered: 8-2008 |
"I try to start a conversation with – ‘I was studying about _____ and discovered that they teach _____’" One of the realities that hit me between the eyes about Adventism was studying what the Catholic Church teaches about salvation, and realizing Adventism essentially teaches the same thing, but without the false hope of purgatory: According to SDA and RCC soteriology, salvation is indeed by grace through faith, but they define the words differently than the Bible: Once you accept "the truth," God gives you the grace via the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, and if you cooperate with that grace by doing the right stuff, then you will eventually be justified by being completely law-abiding. But if you don't cooperate well enough... That's why Adventists like to talk about how you only take your character with you to heaven, and if your character is imperfect when you die, you're in trouble. Funny how that is no where found in Scripture. | ||
| Jonvil Registered user Username: Jonvil Post Number: 227 Registered: 4-2007 |
The IJ is the Adventist Purgatory but without the hope of buying yourself out! This is a great opening for presenting 'saved by grace alone' vs. the 'Catholic' faith + works, without ever bringing up the identical Adventist position. John | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 1363 Registered: 11-2005 |
John, you are exactly right! What parent is going to adopt a child and then put them on probation? Gilbert | ||
| Martinc Registered user Username: Martinc Post Number: 69 Registered: 9-2006 |
"What parent is going to adopt a child and then put them on probation?" Interesting question, Gilbert. Actually, there is a type of trial period in adoption cases, and there are a number of ways that the adoption can fail before it is finalized by a judge. This is very hard on the child and the family adopting the child. I wonder, would the adopting parent say, "When my character is perfectly reproduced in you, I'll come and claim you as my own"? No! We can rejoice that our Judge has already made our adoption final, and our former deadbeat parent can't snatch us back! Of course, many Adventists don't believe in perfection, but they do believe in probation, which requires that salvation must finally depend on character and self-preservation. | ||
| Larry Registered user Username: Larry Post Number: 694 Registered: 5-2007 |
In fact, just the opposite is found in an extreme example, that of the thief on the cross. Tell me about his perfected character! I know you agree with me, Skillet. | ||
| Larry Registered user Username: Larry Post Number: 695 Registered: 5-2007 |
Does this sound like probation? 13When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. 15And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross. Colassians 2 |
