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Jorgfe
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Post Number: 1368
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Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 5:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Exposing Adventism - Rehabilitation of masterbators

It is only fitting that we take a moment to recognize that Seventh-day Adventists are proud of the modern health advice that their prophetess of health, Ellen White offered years before the advent of today's medical knowledge. Ellen White was a strong supporter of John Harvey Kellogg's "health" treatments, as we can see from her frequent preoccupation with the subject of "self abuse".

From the Wikipedia page on John Harvey Kellogg:
He warned that many types of sexual activity, including many “excesses” that couples could be guilty of within marriage, were against nature, and therefore, extremely unhealthy. He drew on the warnings of William Acton and expressed support for the work of Anthony Comstock. He appears to have gone beyond his own advice, since though he and his wife were married for over forty years, they never had sexual intercourse and had separate bedrooms all their lives.
Rehabilitation of masterbators:
Kellogg worked on the rehabilitation of masturbators, often employing extreme measures, even mutilation, on both sexes. In his Plain Facts for Old and Young, he wrote
“A remedy for masturbation which is almost always successful in small boys is circumcision, especially when there is any degree of phimosis. The operation should be performed by a surgeon without administering an anesthetic, as the brief pain attending the operation will have a salutary effect upon the mind, especially if it be connected with the idea of punishment, as it may well be in some cases.”
and
“In females, the author has found the application of pure carbolic acid [phenol] to the clitoris an excellent means of allaying the abnormal excitement.”
He also recommended, to prevent children from this "solitary vice", bandaging or tying their hands, covering their genitals with patented cages, sewing the foreskin shut, and electrical shock

"Plain Facts for Old and Young, by J. H. Kellogg, 1892 helps us to better understand why Ellen White was so anti-sex.

Is it any wonder that Ellen White wrote such strange and disgusting statements as:
Let Self-denial and Temperance Be the Watchword. --Oh, that I could make all understand their obligation to God to preserve the mental and physical organism in the best condition to render perfect service to their Maker! Let the Christian wife refrain, both in word and act, from exciting the animal passions of her husband. Many have no strength at all to waste in this direction. From their youth up they have weakened the brain and sapped the constitution by the gratification of animal passions. Self-denial and temperance should be the watchword in their married life. Adventist Home, page 123

"The sexual passion is indulged during pregnancy, which causes the mother to transmit doubly of the direful ail to the offspring within her womb ... every orgasm expends of the mother's vitality a portion that should go to nourish and develop her babe. Very much of the weakness and lassitude experienced during pregnancy is due to the exhaustion consequent upon the sexual embrace, and the forming child must suffer from its effects: for the mother cannot impart what she does not herself possess, health and strength." Solemn Appeal p. 23

"Females possess less vital force than the other sex, and are deprived very much of the bracing, invigorating air, by their in-doors life. The results of self-abuse in them is seen in various diseases, such as catarrh, dropsy, headache, loss of memory and sight, great weakness in the back and loins, affections of the spine, the head often decays inwardly. Cancerous humor, which would lay dormant in the system their life-time, is inflamed, and commences its eating, destructive work. The mind is often utterly ruined, and insanity takes place." An Appeal to Mothers, p. 27

"Very few feel it to be a religious duty to govern their passions. They have united themselves in marriage to the object of their choice, and therefore reason that marriage sanctifies the indulgence of the baser passions. Even men and women professing godliness give loose rein to their lustful passions, and have no thought that God holds them accountable for the expenditure of vital energy, which weakens their hold on life and enervates the entire system." Testimonies, Volume 4, p. 472

"It is not the taxation of study alone that was doing the work of injury to your children, but that their own wrong habits were sapping the brain, and robbing the entire body of vital energy. The nervous system was becoming shattered by being often excited and thus laying the foundation for premature and certain decay. Self -abuse is killing thousands and tens of thousands." Manuscript Releases, Vol 5, p. 396, Letter to Dr. and Sister Lay, Feb. 13, 1870

"The minds of some of these children are so weakened that they have but one half or one third of the brilliancy of intellect that they might have had, had they been virtuous and pure. They have thrown it away in self-abuse. Right here in this church, corruption is teeming on every hand." Testimonies for the Church, Vol 2, p. 361
A large share of the youth now living are worthless? Everywhere Ellen White looked, she saw imbecility, dwarfed forms, crippled limbs, misshapen heads, and deformity of every description? Really? Was this really what God showed her? How scientific is this?

One has to truly wonder what sort of intimacy James and Ellen White experienced in their married life. Regarding sex in marriage, I find nothing comforting in what Ellen White had to say about God's greatest gift to man and wife. God wants us to have pleasure in each other. Ellen did her best to make it sound crude and ugly.

Seventh-day Adventists assure us that these scientific recommendations are a "gift (that) is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen. G. White . As the Lord's messenger" they make her "a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction."

No wonder she is known as Seventh-day Adventism's "Prophetess of Health"!

Gilbert Jorgensen
Larry
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Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 6:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well Gilbert, Moslems also have a distorted view of God and practice female genital cutting. LINK

sda's need to understand that Islam had much of the same "lesser light" long before ellen white arrived!
Colleentinker
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Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 6:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This was our modern prophet, God's last-day messenger to His church. This is the woman who still divides families and mesmerizes the deceived.

So true, Larry—there is nothing new under the sun.

Colleen
Larry
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Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 7:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

This is the woman who still divides families and mesmerizes the deceived. - Colleen




10For there are many rebellious people, mere talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision group.**
11They must be silenced, because they are ruining whole households by teaching things they ought not to teach - and that for the sake of dishonest gain.
12Even one of their own prophets has said, "Cretans are always liars, evil brutes, lazy gluttons."
13This testimony is true. Therefore, rebuke them sharply, so that they will be sound in the faith
14and will pay no attention to Jewish myths or to the commands of those who reject the truth.
15To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is
pure. In fact, both their minds and consciences are corrupted.
16They claim to know God, but by their actions they deny Him. They are detestable, disobedient andunfit for doing anything good. Titus 1

**sda's always claim they are spiritual Israel but listen to this Bible:
I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. Revelation 2:9
Jorgfe
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Posted on Friday, November 21, 2008 - 5:56 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Colleen, you are very reserved in your verdict.

Words do not describe the anger that I feel regarding the ruin that Ellen White's so-called "health message" has brought to what should be the tenderness and love between husband and wife in hundreds of thousands of Adventist families.

As prior Adventists we were spoon-fed a deception that Ellen White was a compassionate mother and wife. There is nothing compassionate about the procedures described above. Adventism has painted for her a "wax nose." This aspect of early Adventism's so-called "health message" needs much wider exposure. Her poison spewed forth from those around her that she admired, not from God. Read Song of Solomon, for example, and try to make any connection to these bizarre treatments that Ellen White's mentor promoted.

Sex between a husband and wife is a very special and sacred gift from God. There can be absolutely no question in anyone's mind that Ellen White, James White and John Harvey Kellogg got that totally wrong. Even today this rot from Ellen White is repackaged and promoted at Seventh-day Adventist campmeetings as modern health advice given before its time.

Gilbert Jorgensen
Larry
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Posted on Friday, November 21, 2008 - 9:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

In females, the author has found the application of pure carbolic acid [phenol] to the clitoris an excellent means of allaying the abnormal excitement. - Dr. Kellog



Why did ellen white never correct Kellog in this matter?

Why did the Lord not send correction to them immediately through the "prophet"?

ellen whites silence in this matter is contrued as endorsement, given her other sexual views.

It is no wonder that spiritually poisoned false prophets such as ellen white could not even discern the harm from actual, physical POISONS.

Look what Nation Institute of Health has to say about this poison (LINK)

Severe Burns!

The gov't website link given above does not even have a category for genital application! Nobody would think to put it there! Well, maybe Moslems who are interested in a certain procedure. (LINK)

Here is a quote from that link:

"We are expected to ignore the fact that even small Christian girls, abducted in Moslem societies, are forcibly subjected to clitorectomy (female circumcision), often performed on queues of them with the same rusty razor blade under highly septic [this means pathogens everywhere! - my comment] conditions, in the name of the faith of the Koran."

In regards to phenol, this website has a catchy title: "Hands-free Tissue Disruption: No Homogenization Needed"

That is like saying: "you don't need to homogenize your genitals in a kitchen blender, carbolic acid will do it for you." Doh!

sda has taken on many elements of the world, they are actually the babylon that they rail about. Fitting for a deceived people.
Jorgfe
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Posted on Friday, November 21, 2008 - 10:24 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"pure carbolic acid? Ouch!

One certainly has to wonder what kind of intimacy Ellen and James White had...

Reading what she wrote in the book, a Solemn Appeal reflects once again the glowing endorsement that she gave John Harvey Kellogg's "Health Message".
"The sexual passion is indulged during pregnancy, which causes the mother to transmit doubly of the direful ail to the offspring within her womb ... every orgasm expends of the mother's vitality a portion that should go to nourish and develop her babe. Very much of the weakness and lassitude experienced during pregnancy is due to the exhaustion consequent upon the sexual embrace, and the forming child must suffer from its effects: for the mother cannot impart what she does not herself possess, health and strength." Solemn Appeal p. 23
"every orgasm expends of the mother's vitality a portion that should go to nourish and develop her babe." Really? Do we have any medical professionals here on this forum that can confirm this "continuing, authoritative source of truth" that "provides comfort and guidance" to the Seventh-day Adventist church?

Ellen and James White (and company) had an extremely perverted view of sex.

Things within the White Estate have not changed that much either. While SDA marriages turn "stone cold" the White Estate spews out garbage like their latest (2002) addition to this sphere, "Testimonies on Sexual Behaviour, Adultery & Divorce" (http://books.google.com/books?id=LZHVpkELZEkC&pg=PA54&lpg=PA54). Especially relevant and valuable to most Adventist homes, I am sure, is the timely "advice" that a whole section of this SDA denominationally endorsed book is devoted to -- "Section III--A Mutilated Spouse".
[WHEN HE WAS STILL A YOUNG MAN WALTER C CARRIED OUT THE ACTION THAT HE FELT WAS SUGGESTED IN MATTHEW 19:12, AND MADE HIMSELF A EUNUCH. ACCORDING TO WALTER, LAURA MARRIED HIM WITH FULL KNOWLEDGE OF HIS CONDITION. HOWEVER, SHE EVENTUALLY DIVORCED HIM AND MARRIED SOMEONE ELSE. AFTER HER REMARRIAGE, WALTER ALSO MARRIED AGAIN. THE LETTERS IN THIS SECTION REVEAL ELLEN WHITE'S EARNEST ENDEAVOUR TO PROTECT THE SANCTITY OF THE MARRIAGE COMMITMENT EVEN IN THE FACE OF EXTREMELY DIFFICULT CIRCUMSTANCES.]
I'm sure that you will want to immediately run down to your nearest Adventist Book Center and order a copy of this life-changing book to send to each of your relatives for Christmas. While you are at it order another 25 copies to pass out at work to your boss and co-workers. This is Adventism's "Good News"?

Is the White Estate and the Seventh-day Adventist Church so destitute of funds that this subject is now accorded an entire section? What percentage of Adventist families worldwide might this timely advice appliy to? Perhaps an SDA pastor might want to use this section for some kind of congregational rsponsive reading. Now that would certainly be rather interesting!

Gilbert Jorgensen
Larry
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Posted on Friday, November 21, 2008 - 10:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Is the White Estate and the Seventh-day Adventist Church so destitute of funds that this subject is now accorded an entire section? - Gilbert



10For there are many rebellious people, mere talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision group.
11They must be silenced, because they are ruining whole households by teaching things they ought not to teach - and that for the sake of dishonest gain.
12Even one of their own prophets has said, "Cretans are always liars, evil brutes, lazy gluttons." 13This testimony is true. Therefore, rebuke them sharply, so that they will be sound in the faith 14and will pay no attention to Jewish myths or to the commands of those who reject the truth.
15To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and consciences are corrupted.
16They claim to know God, but by their actions they deny Him. They are detestable, disobedient and unfit for doing anything good. Titus 1
Colleentinker
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Posted on Friday, November 21, 2008 - 2:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You're right, Gilbert, I was very reserved. The fact is, I can get REALLY angry about this and a whole lot of other things she said if I think long about it. She was truly a false prophet, and there was no light in her. I believe she was—or became—sold out to evil.

I believe we absolutely can judge her as a false prophet based on the biblical guidelines, and we know what the Bible says about false prophets and those who add to the word of God.

It is interesting (from a sociological view) and significant (from a spiritual view) that even Adventists who do not credit her with being a "prophet" CANNOT tolerate calling her a "false prophet". They can say she's "not a prophet"; they can say she was a visionary when the church needed a visionary; they can say she was a devotional writer; they can say they don't believe in her. But they viscerally and even physically react at the words "false prophet"

I'll never forget resigning from Adventist Today. Richard and I were at lunch with the publisher who had hired us, and he was telling us that he (a professor in the religion dept at LLU) did not believe God literally spoke things "into her ear", etc etc. Yet when I said we had come to believe she was a false prophet, he PHYSICALLY flinched and said, "That's a little strong, don't you think?"

NO, I do NOT think it's too strong. She has done untold damage to millions of people for over one hundred years, and she is a "continuing and authoritative" source of this damage.

There is a spirit of Adventism that holds Adventists in deep bondage. The reason it is so hard, so emotional, and so frightening to leave Adventism is that it is not merely a matter of false information that can be corrected with the truth. The problem with Adventism is that it has evil at its core.

Deception is never spiritually neutral. A false gospel and a false prophet are never spiritually neutral. In fact, there is nothing that is spiritually neutral. Either something is true or not. A person is either in the domain of darkness or in the kingdom of God's beloved Son. There is no neutral ground.

This is serious business, and the quotes above should be deeply convicting to Adventists who want to rationalize that they can keep the good and reject what they don't like. Adventism is what it is. Adventists publicly support Adventism, no matter how they rationalize.

Larry, the text in Titus above is totally apt.

Colleen
Dennis
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Posted on Friday, November 21, 2008 - 4:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Somehow Ellen White reserved enough nineteenth-century "vitalism" to give birth to four sons. It is safe to say she had sex at least four times. According to Jewish wisdom, a woman must be more sexually-excitable to have a son. Thus, throughout the ages, many Jewish couples have practiced special sexual techniques in the hope of having sons.

As usual, Ellen White was always the exception to all her rules. The most bizarre quote from Ellen White is when she equated masturbation ("moral pollution" or "self-indulgence") with suicide as follows:

"Such are just as surely self-murderers as though they pointed a pistol to their own breast, and destroyed their life instantly." [Appeal to Mothers, 1864]

Is there any sane person who actually believes this ultimate absurdity?

Dennis Fischer
Jorgfe
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Posted on Friday, November 21, 2008 - 5:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dennis, you said that "According to Jewish wisdom, a woman must be more sexually-excitable to have a son."

There were so many strange practices during the 1800's.

Let me introduce some rather interesting pieces of information that I don't quite know what to make of.

1. When Ellen White was giving, to a conference at Pilot Grove, Ia., 1865, an account of her visit at Dr. Jackson's health institute, she stated that the doctor, upon a medical examination, pronounced her a subject of "hysteria".
2. Female "hysteria" seems to have been a label that doctors assigned when they had no other explanation for the patient's behavior.
3. The treatment was equally bizarre. Was Ellen White treated for "hysteria" at Dr. Jackson's Health Institute at Dansville, New York? You can read more about the treatment for female "hysteria" at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_hysteria
4. If Ellen White underwent treatment for female "hysteria" which she stated she had been diagnosed with at the Marion, Iowa, Pilot Grove meeting in the mid 1860's that certainly could have colored her peceptions.

Timeline:
1863 - Feb 10, James White starts publishing articles on the subject of health reform
1863 - June, Ellen supposedly had first health reform vision but waited until 1867 to deny that James had any interest prior to her vision.
1864 - august, the Whites visit Dr. Jackson Health Institute. One of his specialties was "water cures".
1865 - Pilot Grove meeting, Marion, Iowa
1866 - Health Reform Institute in Battle Creek, Michigan, opened in answer to a call from Ellen White for Seventh-day Adventists to provide such an institution.
1870 - Solemn Appeal, James and Ellen White
1873 - James and Ellen White encourage John H. Kellogg to take the medical course, and they assist him in his tuition expenses.
1876 - John H. Kellog finishes a two-year medical course (age 24)
1876 - John H. Kellogg appointed superintendent of the Health Reform Institute in Battle Creek, Michigan. Under Dr. Kellogg’s management it grew and prospered, achieving world-wide recognition as the Battle Creek Sanitarium.
1892 - Plain Facts for Old and Young, J. H. Kellogg (age 40)
1903 - John H. Kellog publishes the book, The Living Temple
1907 - November 10, 1907, the Battle Creek church dropped Kellogg from membership

According to the White Estate:
- In early years he strongly defended Ellen White and her message of health. (http://www.whiteestate.org/pathways/jkellogg.asp)
Gilbert Jorgensen
Dennis
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Posted on Friday, November 21, 2008 - 8:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gilbert,

Remember seeing the notorious "fainting couch" at your local antique dealer? Due to low hemoglobin and lacking essential B vitamins, many women fainted regularly during the Victorian Era. My parents reported that many girls and women fainted regularly in their generation as well (about 1915 through the early 1920s). Consequently, the "fainting couch" was devised to quickly comfort and overcome their fainting spells. With proper nutrition in our day, girls are no longer regularly fainting at home or at school like during the American Frontier years.

All in all, Ellen White reflected the Victorian culture of her time. Anti-Catholicism and anti-masturbation movements were commonplace during those years. Therefore, Ellen White's stance on those issues actually made her look quite good in her day. However, nowadays, the same statements make her look like someone out of touch with reality and/or a highly-entertaining comedian. It is high time to expose all of her false teachings.

Ellen White never had the luxury of growing or maturing in her religious life because her first vision was supposedly just as directly from the throne of God as her last one. She effectively put herself in a box. After all, God does not change his ethical and theological stance. Ellen White never imagined that some day people would use computers to decipher her writings with a click of a mouse. The arrival of online religion is as consequential as when the printed word first appeared in medieval Europe.

Dennis Fischer
Larry
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Posted on Friday, November 21, 2008 - 9:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dennis, imagine the trouble caused when Bibles first became mass produced!

The internet is that same model of information distribution, only we get the best of peoples works at the click of a mouse. All one has to do is click on www.nonsda.com to see the absolute best research Dirk Anderson has put together in a few years.

Think how difficult all this would be to untangle in the 1940's with books being expensive, and you'd have to read the whole darn things :-(

A few brave ones did it in those days.
Flyinglady
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Posted on Saturday, November 22, 2008 - 8:14 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If she had been truly shown by God, she would not be all over the map, as well as contradicting herself and the Bible. God does not operate that way.
Diana L
Larry
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Posted on Saturday, November 22, 2008 - 9:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Diana,

Do you mean to say that God would say in His word, the Bible, that no man knows the day or hour. And then completely contradict Himself 1800 years later and give at least 18 people "second coming" prophecies for 1844? (tongue in cheek)

Did you notice the list of second coming predictors posted here and here?
Jorgfe
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Posted on Saturday, November 22, 2008 - 10:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Larry,

Adventism's "mission" is to restore a "lost gospel" -- a gospel that was "lost" for 1800 years!

At the same time Adventism wants to be "accepted" by the very ones they label as "unacceptable".

What does Adventism teach about other churches and their people?

Doesn't that sound like another religion we know of?

Gilbert Jorgensen
Larry
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Posted on Saturday, November 22, 2008 - 12:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gilbert,

Jude 1 does not promise that the gospel will ever get lost, rather is states: "contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints."

Did the Holy Spirit go derelict for 1800 years? :-)

sda's would have to come to that conclusion!
Asurprise
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Posted on Saturday, November 22, 2008 - 12:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I especially feel bad for the plight of Muslim women. They are taught that they are "inferior" to men, have no way of getting out of an abusive situation by their husbands (or fathers if they are children); because it's their word against the man's word - and the man's word is taken every time; and they are deprived of the enjoyment of the very intimacy that God created to be enjoyed between a husband and a wife! (If a person couldn't enjoy that intimacy, I think there wouldn't be much benefit to getting married anyway! Also that intimacy is something to be enjoyed mutually by both.) The devil certainly has a cruel sense of humor.

Of course the absolutely worst thing isn't the abuses heaped on them; the worst thing is being deprived of getting to know the Lord. Bibles are kept from the people in Muslim societies and when a person becomes a Christian; it's an automatic death penalty. As most of us know from being Adventist, it isn't easy to learn the truth and come out of a religion that we were raised in, anyway. How much harder would it be for those who don't even have Bibles!

Any cult is demonic, but it's easy to see the demonic influence behind a religion that undermines intimacy in marriage. Marriage is used as a metaphor of our relationship to God as Christians. We enjoy his companionship and presence and He enjoys ours.
Dianne
Jorgfe
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Posted on Saturday, November 22, 2008 - 1:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dianne,

I especially liked the tenderness of your statement, "Marriage is used as a metaphor of our relationship to God as Christians. We enjoy his companionship and presence and He enjoys ours."

Words don't begin to describe the depth of God's love for us, or the love that we should have for our closest human friend on this earth -- our spouse. Satan does everything he can to destroy that sacred relationship. I am at a loss for words to describe my disgust with what these supposed pioneers of the "Adventist health message" did to the beauty of marriage. Adventism puts a "wax nose" on these people and portray almost a mythical and primitive "godliness" to their behavior. "Sick" is a more appropriate description. What makes it doubly bad is that Ellen White claims that this is what God showed her, and Adventists are so brainwashed that they believe it!

One has to look no further than to compare the Song of Solomon with Ellen White's statements to see that they do not come from the same author.

Sadly, this is an area that Adventists tend to avoid. It is almost as though it is taboo to talk about because Ellen White treated it with such disgust. Even after leaving Adventism, little is done to openly confront this Adventist monstrosity. Adventism is a form of mind control. It rapes its victim, and then shames them into keeping quiet. It then claims that if they leave Adventism they will start down the slippery slope to perdition. It is a religion of fear.

Gilbert Jorgensen
Colleentinker
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Posted on Saturday, November 22, 2008 - 4:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I believe Adventists avoid this subject partly because they would have no way to "explain away" the prophetess and her unbelievable teachings, and partly because Adventists hide a great deal of relational abuse behind closed doors. I know this is not a phenomenon limited to Adventists, but it is very prevalent among Adventists.

1 Timothy 4:1-4 comes to mind, where Paul warns that false teachers will come who will forbid marriage and forbid eating foods God designed to be enjoyed when received with prayer and thanksgiving. While Ellen didn't overtly ban marriage, she certainly recommended married people to live primarily as if they were not.

Colleen
Larry
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Posted on Saturday, November 22, 2008 - 5:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Colleen, ellen white put an onus of guilt on something created to be healthy. Just like her meat eating advice and other doctrines from the devil.

Some lesser light, eh? More like a astral black hole that emits nothing.
Flyinglady
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Posted on Saturday, November 22, 2008 - 5:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My Mom, as an SDA, verbally and psychologically abused her step children. The people of the church thought she was being a good Mom because she sent them to SDA schools with vegetarian lunches and sent them to SS. My sister and brother never said a thing to any one.
After Mom died my sister told me.
Diana L
Dennis
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Posted on Sunday, November 23, 2008 - 8:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In the "Introductory Remarks" of APPEAL TO MOTHERS by Ellen White, the trustees of the SDA Publishing Association stated:

"It would perhaps be well for every member of the family to possess a copy for his or her own personal possession."

I know of no other Seventh-day Adventist book where the publishers recommend that EVERY MEMBER of a family possess their own copies. Obviously, the publisher's recommendation, back in 1864, reveals the ultimate importance and priority of its message.

Dennis Fischer

(Message edited by Dennis on November 23, 2008)
Helovesme2
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Posted on Sunday, November 23, 2008 - 6:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

At the SDARM conferences I attended the "Appeal to Mothers" booklet was readily available for sale. Purchase was especially encouraged at several.
Larry
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Username: Larry

Post Number: 759
Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Monday, November 24, 2008 - 10:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There is somebody in Grants Pass, Oregon that sells reprints of it for $3 I think.

Funny how the whiteestate claims to have all her published stuff online, but omits that whole book!

Funny how they hold any of her writings back at all!

Aren't they inspired of God for all the waiting masses?

Hooey.
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 9040
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Monday, November 24, 2008 - 2:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Amazing, Mary! (Or not...from what I've learned from you, it's totally expected, after all!)

Sigh.
Colleen
Angelcat
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Username: Angelcat

Post Number: 1
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Monday, November 24, 2008 - 3:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My mom got most of her child rearing ideas from Ellen White. Much of it was abusive.


It still took me a long time to get to the point of saying Ellen White is a false prophet.
Jorgfe
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Username: Jorgfe

Post Number: 1397
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Monday, November 24, 2008 - 5:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Angelcat,

Welcome! I'm so glad you posted. We look forward to you sharing more when you are ready.

Gilbert
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 9048
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Monday, November 24, 2008 - 9:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Welcome, Angelcat! I'm so glad you've joined us. You're certainly not the only one who got abusive child rearing! It's amazing how hard is is to admit that Ellen was a false prophet.

There is a spiritual hold on us that ties us to the organization's traditions, structure, and authority. Once we recognize the Triune God's true authority, we can't share His place with any other authority in our own hearts.

Praise God He is revealing Himself to you!
Colleen

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