| Author | Message | ||
| Mommyk Registered user Username: Mommyk Post Number: 217 Registered: 4-2007  |
This EGW quote was emailed to me by a family member: "Then I was shown a company who were howling in agony. On their garments was written in large characters, "Thou art weighed in the balance and found wanting". I asked who this company were. The angel said, "These are they who have once kept the Sabbath and have given it up". I heard them cry with a loud voice, "We have believed in Thy coming and have taught it with energy." And while they were speaking their eyes would fall upon their garments and see the writing and then they would wail aloud.I saw that they had drunk of the deep waters and fouled the residue with their feet-trodden the Sabbath underfoot-and that was why they were weighed in the balance and found wanting." Early Writings pg. 37 I think it's so sad that Ellen used scare-tactics to bring in followers and keep them. Quotes like this one and others are pathetic. If people would just read the Bible for themselves and ask Holy Spirit to give them understanding, there would be more joy and less fear and the TRUTH would be obvious! *sigh* ~Kristen | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 6040 Registered: 3-2004  |
Oh Yes, I read this when I was an SDA and was scared to death. The Sabbath was the last thing I let go of. I hung on to it like an insurance policy. Praise God for showing me His true Sabbath rest-Jesus Christ. I understand that "sigh". It is so sad that people are scared into join the SDA church and it is that scare that keeps them in. Diana L | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 1399 Registered: 11-2005 |
Kristen, So who do they recommend turning to? Ellen White said that Christ is no longer in her midst. "That these men should stand in a sacred place, to be as the voice of God to the people, as we once believed the General Conference to be--that is past". --Last Day Events 50.4And Ellen White had quite a bit to say regarding Ezekiel 9. Ellen White says that Ezekiel 9 will have another literal fulfilment, and the Bible will not be re-written. Ezekiel 5:9, says in essence that Ezekiel 9 will have another literal fulfilment, because it says that in that fulfilment, God will do the worse thing He has ever done or will ever again do, and that refers to the greatest time of trouble known to man, the Great Time of Jacob's Trouble. In other words, if the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD (the last fulfilment of Ezekiel 9) was the worse thing God has ever done or ever again will do, then the greatest time of trouble man has ever known is over and past, having occurred in circa 70 AD! The "time of visitation" for the professing Seventh-day Adventist Church, was 1901, 1930's, and 1957. In 1901, the Adventist Church refused God's approved plan for organization; in the 1930's, the Adventist Church voted to accept and teach the standards of world in order to receive accreditation for its educational institutions; in 1957, it agreed to teach anti-Christ doctrines to the world to avoid being called a cult. Soon after, the Adventist Church joined the confederacies of the World Council of Churches, by joining its National Council of Churches in at least eight countries of the world. This was tantamount to joining the Synagogue of Satan, because Ellen White says that Satan leads the fallen churches as a whole, and that it is impossible to distinguish them from the world, Early Writings, 273. Thus the church has married itself to the world and its teachings. Ellen White said that the church would become the house of every unclean and hateful bird by marrying itself to the world and bringing the world into the church. What more effective means could Satan employ to bring the world into the church, than to persuade its leaders to agree to teach according to the standards of the world's standards of accreditation? The first act of Jesus' ministry in AD 27, was to "gather out" (the disciples) those who were to take the gospel to the world, DA 232. Jesus left Jerusalem and went to Capernaum, Nazareth, etc., because the Jews at Jerusalem rejected Him and were bent on destroying Him. But He called all His followers out of the apostate Jewish church, and they formed home churches dotting the hills of Judea etc. Jesus and the disciples did teach in some of the Synagogues of the land, but that was because, according to Josephus, it was a custom to ask any Jew entering the court of the Synagogues if he had a message from the Lord. If he replied in the affirmative, he was permitted to give his message. That courtesy, that right, is not extended to current day professing Seventh-day Adventists, and that is one way the Jews were better than the Adventists of today. Just because Jesus went to localities other than Jerusalem to call people out of the apostate temple church of Israel, does not mean that Jesus was "confirming that the oracles of truth, and the development of Heaven's purpose was still taking place within Israel's apostate system. Ellen White clearly stated the bounds of probation's close for the professing Seventh-day Adventist Church. It is up to Adventists today to be able to detect and discern when those bounds have been crossed. Only the presence of God could constitute a church. If God has been removed by the fulfilment of every specification of the New Movement, then the SDA church has become "unchurched." Seventh-day Adventists fail to discern that it is impossible to repent after knowing the truth and then teaching anti-Christ doctrine to the world, and after rejecting the admonitions of the first and second angel's messages, and, after marrying the church to Satan and the world. It is positively against Biblical principle to remarry after divorce. God may remarry the church after playing the harlot, but not after divorce and marriage to the world and Satan, to become part of the Synagogue of Satan, while calling itself Seventh-day Adventist, Rev. 3:9. This is Bible principle, not the personal opinion of any man. Just because "apparently faithful" men fail to see these facts of principle, does not disprove the reality of these truths. Most of the leaders of apostate Israel failed to see these very principles of truth. In the AD 70 manifestation of Ezekiel 9, not a single Israelite was sealed at the temple. Any Israelite who was sealed, responded to the "gathering out" by Christ and His disciples, Desire of Ages, 232. They came out and formed home churches, per Philemon 2:1; 1 Corinthians 16:19, as did the early Adventists. This "gathering out" began as the first act of Jesus' ministry in 27 AD, Desire of Ages, 232. This "gathering out" occurred beginning 43 years before the debacle of Ezekiel 9, resulting in the destruction of the Temple and the city of Jerusalem. Some SDAs who are ignorant of historical fact, try to say that you must sigh and cry in the church and mourn between the porch and the altar at the apostate (temple) church. But that is not where the disciples and their followers were sealed. They were sealed in their home churches dotting the hills of Judea. They were sealed in the home sanctuary provided by Christ and His disciples, for where two or three meet together, who love God and His commandments, there He presides; there is His church, His sanctuary, The Upward Look, 315. Ellen White says that God will finish the work without one thread of man's devising, and in a simple way that will amaze us. The Holy Spirit is greater in power and efficacy than Seventh-day Adventists are able to discern. Are we not told that if we fail to deliver the everlasting gospel to the world, the very rocks will cry out?! Did not faithful of past ages come forth from their graves to witness the gospel to the world, at the time of Christ's resurrection? What most professing Seventh-day Adventists do no consider is that God is going to do that very same thing again. Capernaum was a corporate city, and Seventh-day Adventism is Biblically represented as a corporate city, the corporate city of Jerusalem. It will be brought down to hell as a corporate city [church], except for a small remnant who escape, Ezekiel 5:1-5, as was the case with Israel in the 70 A.D. destruction of Jerusalem. Also see Ezekiel 20:34-38. According to Ellen White in Selected Messages, vol. 1, 204-5, the current day professing Seventh-day Adventist church is a new movement, new organization, that has removed God, and will permit nothing to stand in its way. With God removed, the current professing Seventh-day Adventist church is one of the largest "independent of God" ministries in the world, and is indeed the largest professing Seventh-day Adventist independent ministry. And, as cited, it cannot even be categorized as a church without the presence of God. There are two masters only, and if God is not present we should know who is. "The tares and the wheat are to grow together until the harvest; and the harvest is the end of probationary time." Christ's Object Lessons, p. 72. Yet, even with tares present until the end of probationary time, God will have a perfect bride, without guile or spot. Tares are insincere folk, whose motives we would have to judge to remove them from the church. Wheat can mature among tares, as the disciples matured among Judas, but we are told that the wheat cannot mature among thorns, open sinning tares. Few leaders, even among the "independent" ministries, make this important distinction. There is the true invisible Church, and there is a church calling itself Seventh-day Adventist, but is not and is the Synagogue of Satan, Rev. 3:9. These two very different churches are no more a church within a church than was Christ's "gathered out" church, a church within the Jewish apostate system. Why do you think God would cite the Synagogue of Satan along with a perfect church, Philadelphia? It is God who made the side by side comparison in Rev. 3:9. No true reformer is closing the door of probation for the true Seventh-day Adventist Church, but there is an impostor church posing as the true remnant SDA church. The impostor Sevenrh-day Adventist Church needs to be exposed for what it is. Ellen White said to repudiate it, Selected Messages, vol. 1, 405. Scripture says to accurse anyone who come to you with another gospel, even if it be an angel. Martin Weber, an associate editor of Ministry magazine, an organ of the SDA Ministerial Association, has said in a current book that New Movement Adventism is teaching five different gospels. There is little consolence in being referred to as Jerusalem and "My people," by God, when He instructed Jeremiah not to even pray for them, and that if he did, God would not answer. Jeremiah 11:14. There is little consolence in being called "My people," when Jesus was gathering out those who would take the gospel to the world! That very "side by side" analogical parallel is being experienced today by God's "chosen people." Ellen White clearly stated that the faithful ministers might be removed. Ellen White clearly stated that the church could become married to the world and become the cage of every unclean and hateful bird! It has! What then? Where was the little company that stood in the light in the last fulfilment of Ezekiel 9, circa AD 66-70? They had escaped to the mountain land of Pella. SDA Bible Commentary, vol. 5, 74-77. Where were they when the sealing took place? Were they sealed at the apostate Jewish Temple, or within the "gathered out" little company of Jesus and His followers? Where were the words of Life in Christ's day? In the "gathered out" reformer church, or in the apostate temple? Christ and His church reproved, counselled, and entreated though He "gathered out" those who would take the gospel to the world, DA, 232. Ellen White certainly said that if the errors continued to be cherished, the faithful would be removed from the church. The errors have continued, and the faithful ministers are beginning to be removed. We see many of them becoming "former Adventists"! Ezekiel 9 will not be re-written. In what church did the sealing take place in the last fulfilment of Ezekiel 9. Ellen White referred to that fulfilment as a "prefigure," which means type, The Great Controversy, p. 25. A type demands a similar antitypical fulfilment, and Ellen White said that Ezekiel 9 will have another literal fulfilment. It is obvious that in the prefigure "type," of Ezekiel 9, there were two churches involved. The church of Jesus Christ and His followers, and the once "chosen Jewish church," that had become apostate. An antitypical fulfilment of that situation, demands a two-church scenario. In the prefigure type of Ezekiel 9, God claimed two churches as players. The original chosen become apostate church, and the reformed church of Jesus Christ. If we claim what God claimed we will claim two churches today: the New Movement apostate SDA impostor, apostate church, and the only current valid invisible Church which constitutes the true body of Christ, that militates for the truth once delivered to the saints. Who does your family member recommend that we follow? Gilbert Jorgensen | ||
| Larry Registered user Username: Larry Post Number: 778 Registered: 5-2007 |
Kristen, You could write back and ask why those "howling in agony" people could not actually be those who never repented of 1844 timesetting, which deception their church arose from. Another tack is that if God fooled them with the 1843 chart way back then, perhaps He is not done fooling them with ellen whites writings! Sorry all. Fit of derangement there. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 6043 Registered: 3-2004 |
Also, very practical questions. Diana L | ||
| Mommyk Registered user Username: Mommyk Post Number: 218 Registered: 4-2007 |
Good question, Gilbert! They wouldn't have a clue how to answer. Although I'd probably hear how the "great shaking" is taking place now and only the "true believers" will remain in the remnant church. That's what they say about me....I've been shaken out because I am not faithful to God and His commandments. I was brainwashed and led astray (by my own husband, in fact). So on one hand those in the SDA church who aren't true believers (don't want to follow the 10 C's - keep the Sabbath) will be shaken out. And on the other hand, the true followers who are now attending "Sunday churches" will be called out to join the remnant. That's their reasoning behind every person who leaves the SDA church....they were shaken out as a fulfillment of prophecy. And those who are being sucked in are obviously fulfilling prophecy, too! ;) SHEESH! | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 9052 Registered: 12-2003  |
Interesting post, Gilbert. Great points. I know, Kristin—your summary "SHEESH" is about all I can articulate when I try to make sense of Adventist inside-out apologetics. Sometimes I get letters from Proclamation readers asking to be removed from the list. Along with the request there is often an angry, tightly controlled, articulate barrage of accusation and "logic" designed to show superior argumentation, awesome intellect, and confident satisfaction with their own studied position and disdain for our abysmal IGNORANCE. Sometimes when I read these, ending with sarcastic parries designed to figuratively cut the buttons off my vest with their sword while leaving me alive but exposed and shamed, I just want to write back, "OKEY-DOKE!!" Really, what can one say?? I resist, however... SHEESH! Colleen | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 1401 Registered: 11-2005 |
But .... At least they don't have to be concerned about the Catholics! One of the first things they need to do is to have their names removed from the local SDA churches membership record. By also refraining from attending any SDA churches they won't be as well known to the "nominal Adventists" who attend there. "I saw the nominal church and nominal Adventists, like Judas, would betray us to the Catholics to obtain their influence to come against the truth. The saints then will be an obscure people, little known to the Catholics; but the churches and nominal Adventists who know of our faith and customs (for they hated us on account of the Sabbath, for they could not refute it) will betray the saints and report them to the Catholics as those who disregard the institutions of the people; that is, that they keep the Sabbath and disregard Sunday." (Ellen White, Spalding--Magan Unpublished Testimonies, p. 1)They should also keep in mind that as of 1851 there is no longer any benefit to be derived from praying for those who are wicked. Then I saw that Jesus prayed for his enemies, but that should not cause us to pray for the wicked world, whom God had rejected — when he prayed for his enemies, there was hope for them… but now his spirit and sympathy were withdrawn from the world; and our sympathy must be with Jesus, and must be withdrawn from the ungodly… I saw that the wicked could not be benefited by our prayers now… I saw that the scripture did not mean the wicked whom God had rejected that we must love, but he meant our neighbors in the household, and did not extend beyond the household. (Camden, N.Y. vision on June 29, 1851)Of course, since the Investigative Judgment was already over half done by 1850 (158 years ago) they are already lost. I saw that the time for Jesus to be in the Most Holy Place was nearly finished, and that time cannot last but a very little longer; and what leisure time we have should be spent in searching the Bible, which is to judge us in the last day."Curtain time" happened a long time ago -- according to Adventism, who teaches that Revelation 3:10 refers to the end times -- during the "church of Philadelphia". A check of the SDA Bible Commentary will show that the time period for the Church of Philadelphia ended in 1844, and the church of Laodicia began then. The dates are listed right there in the section on Revelation. Seventh-day Adventists claim that they are now in the "time period" represented by the Laodician Church. They also say that the time of testing mentioned in Rev. 3:10 is a reference to Revelation 13:13-17, which they place in the future. Revelation 3:10 clearly refers to the Church at Philadelphia which is seen by Seventh-day Adventism as symbolic of the second last period in the history of the church (generally dated from the later years of the 18th century till 1844). The Laodicean period follows on from it, and continues until the second advent. The burden of proof is upon S.D.A. historicists to show how the Lord could help the believer living in the "Philadelphian" period of church history from being overcome in the hour of testing when, according to their assertion, the hour testing doesn't occur during the "Philadelphian" period, but rather during the "Laodicean" period. Now in traditional S.D.A. historicism, the time of temptation described in Revelation 3:10 is described as "Satan's final effort". Following on from the above assertions, S.D.A. historicism should say, to be consistent, that the faithful believers who lived through the "Philadelphian" period of church history (generally held by them to occur between the late 18th century and just after 1844) were kept by God during "Satan's final effort" to deceive the world, and furthermore, that the events of Revelation 13:13-17 occurred during this same period of the church. The implications of the Seventh-day Adventist scheme that interprets the churches as consecutive periods is that since we are no longer in the "Philadelphian" period but rather in the next period-the "Laodicean"- the last great crisis of the world is behind us, probation for the human race closed nearly 165 years ago, the issue over the mark of beast is long past, the seven last plagues have already fallen, and the Lord's coming is really history and not prophecy. Gilbert Jorgensen | ||
| Surfy Registered user Username: Surfy Post Number: 430 Registered: 11-2007 |
And here I thought the wicked were judged and then thrown into the lake of fire. Now I find out that ellen says they get new clothes with writing on them and stand around talking with each other. Learn something new every day. Surfy |
