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Philharris
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Username: Philharris

Post Number: 1195
Registered: 5-2007


Posted on Thursday, November 27, 2008 - 7:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

When William Miller promoted the 'Day Age Theory' (where a day equals a year) he may have been thinking of the following verse:


quote:

Numbers 14:34 KJV
After the number of the days in which ye searched the land, even forty days, each day for a year, shall ye bear your iniquities, even forty years, and ye shall know my breach of promise.




First, from a study of Miller and his era, it is obvious that he didn't think up the major components of his theory on his own. Others developed this idea before him. In fact, some Christian theorist still use versions of this theory to 'explain away' six days of creation.

So, back to Numbers verse 34. The first thing that should be done is to back up and read the whole chapter, so we can understand what the verse is referring to. The next thing to realize is that this is a curse directed at a specific group of people. In other words, it is a one time event. Within this curse, a 'day' is a day, the number of days the Hebrew spies searched out the Promised Land. And, a 'year' is a year, the number of years they would stay encamped in the wilderness. 'Days' didn't become 'years'.

One last thing that I see is this: If we were to take a verse like this out of context and apply it to our own special theory, we would loose track of the original message. Only two spies were ready to act on God's promises and invade the land and enter into God's Rest. The people forgot what God had done for them and would rather go back to slavery. Then, when the people heard the curse; they reacted by invading the land without God's leading. They didn't even believe the whole curse. Without God's leading they were defeated.

The personal application of this passage, the whole chapter, when read in conjunction with other passages that deal with sin and rebellion is this: Just like King David, there is a consequence when we sin. However, when we humble ourselves and seek God's forgiveness, he will never abandon us. Even Moses sinned and did not enter the Promised Land, but he was never out of God's TRUE REST.

Application:

With God's leading, we can not loose. Without it, we will always be defeated.

Phil
Jorgfe
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Username: Jorgfe

Post Number: 1414
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Thursday, November 27, 2008 - 8:32 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Phil, that is a great observation. Thank you for sharing that with us. Your insights are fascinating!

It is interesting how Seventh-day Adventists are quite emphatic about the importance of using the year-day principle to successful identify the Seventh-day Adventist Church as God's "remnant people".

They maintain that this principle is essential to "correctly" interpret the 70 weeks of Daniel 9, in order to "arrive" at 1844, thereby somehow "proving" that the Seventh-day Adventist Church arrived on the scene at just the right time (in spite of the fact that the SDA Church began in 1863, not 1844!)

Early Adventist leader, Uriah Smith, explains,
As we enter upon the study of the seventy weeks, or 490 days, it will be well to remind ourselves of the fact that in Scripture a day represents a year....But what is more conclusive than all else is the fact that the prophecies have actually been fulfilled on this principle - a demonstration of its correctness from which there is no appeal. This will be found in the prophecy of the seventy weeks throughout, and all the prophetic periods of Daniel 7 and 12, and Revelation 9, 12, and 13. Thus, the events of the seventy weeks, calculated in this rational way, furnish a key to the whole vision. (Uriah Smith, The Prophecies of Daniel and the Revelation, pp.204-205)
So according to Adventist teaching, when interpreting prophecy "it it will be well to remind ourselves of the fact that in Scripture a day represents a year."

Since the prophetic book of Revelation is where we read about the millennium, isn't only consistent to also apply the year-day principle to that as well?

If the year-day principle were applied to the millennium of Rev 20:3, 5, and 7, the length would be 360,000 or as much as 365,000 years.

Gilbert Jorgensen
Larry
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Username: Larry

Post Number: 783
Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Thursday, November 27, 2008 - 10:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gilbert, Ask an adventist question #504: Where does the great antitype day of atonement get a value of one day for every 164 years?

You probably already have that one in waiting!
Larry
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Username: Larry

Post Number: 784
Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Thursday, November 27, 2008 - 10:12 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Only two spies were ready to act on God's promises



Who readied those two spies, Phil?
Philharris
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Username: Philharris

Post Number: 1197
Registered: 5-2007


Posted on Thursday, November 27, 2008 - 10:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Larry,

Moses did. He picked twelve men, one from each tribe, gave them their instructions and sent them out.

Phil
Larry
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Username: Larry

Post Number: 787
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Posted on Thursday, November 27, 2008 - 10:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Phil, I mean Who gave the two spies their readiness?


quote:

Only two spies were ready to act on God's promises


Larry
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Username: Larry

Post Number: 788
Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Thursday, November 27, 2008 - 11:06 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Is Numbers 14 the only place in Bible where there is any mention of day for a year? Just wondering.

You hafta shake your head when you realize that using a day-for-a-year curse is used as a cookie cutter for the arithmatic used to get to 1844!

How are sda's so sure that it is not a day-for-a-thousand years, as that is also mentioned in scripture!

But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 2 Peter 3:8

They want us to not-forget the 4th commandment, but are all too willing to forget day-as-a-thousand years!
Philharris
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Username: Philharris

Post Number: 1198
Registered: 5-2007


Posted on Thursday, November 27, 2008 - 11:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Larry, I understood your question.


quote:

Isa. 40:21-31 KJV
Have ye not known? have ye not heard? hath it not been told you from the beginning? have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth? It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in: That bringeth the princes to nothing; he maketh the judges of the earth as vanity. Yea, they shall not be planted; yea, they shall not be sown: yea, their stock shall not take root in the earth: and he shall also blow upon them, and they shall wither, and the whirlwind shall take them away as stubble. To whom then will ye liken me, or shall I be equal? saith the Holy One. Lift up your eyes on high, and behold who hath created these things, that bringeth out their host by number: he calleth them all by names by the greatness of his might, for that he is strong in power; not one faileth. Why sayest thou, O Jacob, and speakest, O Israel, My way is hid from the LORD, and my judgment is passed over from my God? Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God, the LORD, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? there is no searching of his understanding. He giveth power to the faint; and to them that have no might he increaseth strength. Even the youths shall faint and be weary, and the young men shall utterly fall: But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.



Two spies knew where their strength came from, the others didn't. All twelve were 'readied' for their task. God cursed the people because they refused to 'see'. The people had a choice and made the wrong one.

Phil
Philharris
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Username: Philharris

Post Number: 1200
Registered: 5-2007


Posted on Thursday, November 27, 2008 - 6:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Larry,

Ezekiel 4:6 is another example of where a 'day' and a 'year' are referenced together. However, it does nothing to support Adventist theology. In fact, it is needful to go back to the start of Ezekiel and read forward to even gain an understand what the verse is talking about.

Phil
Larry
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Username: Larry

Post Number: 791
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Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2008 - 10:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good work Phil.

But do you think that a prophecy that converted from one that we could see on earth (1844, second coming) based on day for a year for us earthlings, should necessarily have changed to day-for-thousand-years when the "prophecy" was re-interpreted to have been a prophecy that only God in heaven could verify?

The adventist must show why day-for-a-thousand-years cannot apply here!

After all, the sda church has the gift of prophecy, so I am sure they will have a convincing, prophetic explaination.

Perhaps we can get Gilbert to simplify this into a crystalline question for "Ask an Adventist" :-)
Asurprise
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Username: Asurprise

Post Number: 550
Registered: 7-2007
Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2008 - 3:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Daniel 8:14 which tells about the 2300 day prophecy, comes in response to verse 13 right before it. It was concerning the sanctuary being trampled underfoot. Verse 14 gives the answer of how long it would be before the sanctuary would be cleansed. If one goes by Adventist reckoning, a person would have to take the word "days" as meaning years. Now I believe that in prophetic terms, days do stand for years; but these aren't days that the verse is saying. My little reference Bible gives the literal for "days" in the little center column on the Bible page. "Days" are literally "evening-mornings" in Daniel 8:14.

Now whenever the Bible says: "evening-mornings" or "the evening and the morning were the third day" (Gen. 1:13); it's meaning real literal DAYS, not prophetic day/years.
Also to continue in the Adventist reasoning which says that the "sanctuary" is the Heavenly sanctuary, Daniel 8:13 says that the sanctuary would be trampled underfoot. If you read the chapter, it would have to be saying (according to Adventist eschatology), that an earthly power trampled God's sanctuary in heaven. Not only that, but it would have to be saying that the sanctuary was filthy with the sins of humanity until 1844. God is holy and cannot look on sin. Adventists then are saying that God was dwelling IN SIN for all that time???!! The whole Bible disagrees with the "investigative judgment/1844" teaching.

In John 5:24, Jesus says: "he who hears My word and believes in Him Who sent Me HAS everlasting life, and SHALL NOT COME INTO JUDGMENT, but has passed from death into life."
Hebrews 6:19,20 says that Jesus had ALREADY entered into the Most Holy Place. (after His ascension) And Hebrews 10:12 says that Jesus sat down at the right hand of God. There's NO PLACE holier than where God is!

If a prophet of God has only ONE thing wrong, that makes the prophet a false prophet. I think Ellen White herself said that her writing are either all inspired by God or all of the devil. I pray that any Adventist who might be reading this will study carefully to see that they are really in the TRUTH.
Back when I was an Adventist, I thought Ellen White and the Bible agreed. Not only was I taught this, but because of the "proof" texts that I didn't know were taken out of context; I would compare those "proof" texts to Ellen White and come up with the idea that I really had the truth. I would ignore those things in the Bible that didn't agree with Ellen White, by telling myself that I just didn't understand what the Bible was saying in those passages.
Animal
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Username: Animal

Post Number: 332
Registered: 7-2008


Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2008 - 3:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Asurprise...

Excellent post !!!!!

I enjoyed it immensely(spelling?) !!!!

The IJ teaching carries no basis of merit. It is truly a demonic doctrine that denies the power of the Cross which Jesus died on.

Thanks for the reminder

Animal...Scripture is our final authority
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 9065
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2008 - 9:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Amen! Good post, Asurprise!

Colleen
Philharris
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Username: Philharris

Post Number: 1207
Registered: 5-2007


Posted on Sunday, November 30, 2008 - 1:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Asurprise,

Amen...you have a 'way with words'. I say; "case dismissed for lack of evidence".

Phil

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