| Author | Message | ||
| Justdodie Registered user Username: Justdodie Post Number: 92 Registered: 2-2006  |
incurable sinfulness DEAD in sin utter depravity I've run across words such as these in various places, including this forum, and I wonder if I might ask for some further explanation. I know, of course, that most people will point out that the Bible says that human beings are 'sinful', and I wonder if I'm correct in my understanding of exactly what they mean by that? For example, I've discussed this with a Catholic friend, and her understanding is quite different from, say, a Baptist. While she described it as explaining somehow the imperfection of human beings--which we all feel and know to be true--there didn't seem to be that awful burden of guilt and oppression that I learned as an SDA, and also find here in some of the discussions. In other words, the concept of 'original sin' didn't particularly bother her, and she explained that, "We just take care of that right away, through baptism, and we don't worry about it any more." They then go on to concentrate on living the best lives they can, because it isn't seen as an issue any more. I didn't find this explanation very helpful though. I am beginning to suspect it can be understood more in terms of the 'ritual impurity' of the Old Testament, which I also never understood, and cannot find a modern counterpart for. Or is it more of an actual blanket condemnation of human beings, simply because they are born human beings? In other words, is it really viewed or experienced as a sense of 'badness', regardless of the type of life we live? Something that's not really based on who or what we are as a person? If so, how do you wrap your mind around such a concept? I'll confess, I've always had a problem with the idea of inheriting 'original sin' because of what someone else (Adam and Eve) did. I wonder if someone could explain to me in terms of 'how it feels' to them, what exactly is meant by these terms, and why you believe in them? For example, is it the same as what I would refer to as 'being human', i.e. certainly not perfect, prone to making mistakes and hopefully learning from them. Or is there a genuine belief in oneself as somehow profoundly 'evil', 'wicked', 'depraved, 'unacceptable', etc? I've read all the verses in the Bible that are used to 'prove' or 'convict of sin' and that doesn't help much since I don't have a 'faith' belief in the Bible as some people do. So, perhaps I shouldn't be asking my questions here. But..... here I am anyway...for better or for worse  As I've stated in another thread, http://www.formeradventist.com/discus/messages/11/8012.html?1228010994, I have never been able to be a believer, and not for lack of trying. I guess it's just how I'm hard-wired. Perhaps I am, after all, just a hopelessly optimistic humanist... never quite giving up on the idea of human progress, albeit EVER-so-slow!! Although, that certainly comes as a surprise to me as I usually think of myself as a total cynic! Thanks Joyce | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 2536 Registered: 10-2004  |
Hi Joyce, Our "original sin" that we are born with, is not an "awful burden of guilt and oppression" for us Christians like it was as SDAs (there's also the fact that Adventism does not believe in "original sin" like historical Christianity does, but that's a whole different discussion). As Christians, the "burden of guilt"--all of our sin, including "original sin"--has been wiped away forever by the shed blood of the Lord Jesus Christ. We have been saved, we have been accepted! We are not "unacceptable" to God when we are "in Him" (through the death of Jesus) and He is our Father/"Abba" in the Hebrew ("Daddy"). He has redeemed us from all of our "unacceptable-ness" and loves us with a never-ending love. He has adopted us and dwells within us, from the moment we trust only in His death on the Cross, as the payment for our sin, to save us. So, in other words, in our day-to-day lives as Christians, "depravity" or "original sin" is not something that we worry about. Instead, it's something that Jesus has already taken care of for us, and redeemed us from, and we are saved and forgiven in Him! We are beloved children of the King of kings--accepted as though we are without any sin, faults, mistakes, or imperfections! Jeremy (Message edited by Jeremy on November 29, 2008) | ||
| Justdodie Registered user Username: Justdodie Post Number: 94 Registered: 2-2006 |
But, what IS it? This 'unacceptable-ness'?? | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 6080 Registered: 3-2004  |
Joyce, Jesus expanded on the commandments in Matthew 5 where he says whoever is angry with his brother without a cause whall be in danger of the judgement; whoever looks at a woman to lust for her had already committed adultery with her in his heart; no divorce except for sexual immorality; let your yes be yes, your no be no; give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow fom you do not turn away; love and pray for your enemies. There are other verses which I cannot find right now that tell what God considers sin. Any of these sins are unacceptable in God's eyes. For example, I will tell you about myself. I used to love reading written pornography. I would buy books only for the written description of what went on between men and women. That was unacceptable to God as it turned me away from Him. I had to own up to that, when I became aware of it. Because Jesus died for me and I love Him with all my heart, soul and spirit, I asked him to take that love of written pornography away from me. There are people in my Christ centered 12 step program who have had their like of pornography, alcoholism, drugs, and again for me an eating disorder, taken from them. The sins are unacceptable to God. Because He loves us and Jesus died for us, all the Father sees is Jesus blood covering us and does not see the sin. Because of Jesus we are loved of the Father. I hope this gives you a better idea of what is unacceptable to God. It is the sin but not the person. When my son was a little boy through his teenage years I would get so angry when he did something I did not like and that was unacceptable to me. He was not unacceptable to me, only his actions. If this does not explain it adequately, keep asking questions. Diana | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 9062 Registered: 12-2003  |
Joyce, the clearest answer I know is found in Ephesians 2:3. The longer version is explored in Romans 1 through the first half of Romans 3. Paul tells us in Ephesians 2:3 that we are—ALL of us—"by nature objects of wrath". The preceding two verses explain that we were ALL "dead in our sins", subject to the "the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient." He describes how this "looks": "gratifying the cravings of the sinful nature..." Genesis 3 tells the story of what happened. What Adam and Eve sinned, they DID die, as God had said they would. They died spiritually. In other words, their spirits, which had been connected to God and in perfect unity and communion with Him, we separated from Him, and they lost their spiritual life. Their bodies also eventually died. But we know their spirits died because they suddenly felt shame and attempted to hide from God. Further, God called, "Adam, where are you?" Hey, He was God—He knew "where" Adam was. But this call reflected the fact that Adam's spiritual presence and connection with Him was gone. 1 Cor. 15 and Romans 5 explain that death and sin "reign" in humanity through Adam. Because we are humans and he was the "head" of the human race, we are also inherently spiritually dead. This is not a metaphor. It is literal. We have spirits that are our essences of ourselves. These, being naturally disconnected from the Life of God, are dead when we are born. Col 1:13 states that are originally in the "domain of darkness", but God transfers us to the "kingdom of His beloved Son." Through the miracle of Jesus' death and resurrection, we who place our faith in Him receive full forgiveness because the price of sin was paid by His shed blood. When we accept the great git of His death for us—a price we cannot hope to pay or repay—when we swallow our pride and allow the power and glory of Jesus to be our shield and cover and and Him to be our substitute, we again are connected to God's Life through the "new and living way" of the "blood of the eternal covenant" (Hebrews 10). Our original sin is rectified by our being connected to God by the substitutionary death of Jesus. When we surrender to Him and acknowledge our sin and accept His payment for us and receive His righteousness, we move from being "in Adam" to being "in Christ". He is now the head of the new race He has created: those who are spiritually alive and are His own body: the church. Original sin is our naturally dead spirit, disconnected from the life of God. We have no hope of having internal peace or peace with God when we are spiritually dead. We were created to be alive in Him. Sin literally killed our human race; Jesus' blood is the eternal payment for our sin. When we accept that, we are made alive, and we become literally new. Colleen | ||
| Snowboardingmom Registered user Username: Snowboardingmom Post Number: 511 Registered: 11-2005 |
Hi Joyce, Romans 14:23 defines sin: "Whatever is not from faith is sin." So, in other words, it has nothing to do with the good acts we do, or even with the sort of lifestyle we live. The Bible says sin is really an issue of faith. So at a very basic level, if I am trusting my own self, rather than relying on God and what He has done for me (Jesus' sacrifice) in faith, then I am living in sin. At this point, it's as you put it, "dead in sin" or "utter depravity". Jeremy stated very clearly the transition that happens when we are cleansed with Jesus blood, and all of this "original sin" has been wiped away. So from the moment we have been saved, we are "free" from the condemnation of sin. Now what is "sin" exactly on the day to day level? Well, again, "What is not from faith is sin." This is the part that has really become clear to me over the past couple of years. Whenever my anxiety and worries about the world overcome me, then I am not living in faith, I'm living in sin. Whenever I am not submitting my entire being to God, and "lose it" whether in my fears, in my anger, or in my less-than-appropriate actions, I am not operating in faith. I am operating under my own tendencies, and therefore living in sin. So in other words, for the most part, I am constantly in sin. We all are. When I look back on all the times I thought I was "all that" and a pretty devout, good SDA girl, I realize now that in spite of what I thought of myself, or the "good" I did, I was IN SIN. Now remember, once we have accepted Jesus' sacrifice, we are no longer under the condemnation of sin. Jesus' blood takes care of that once and for all. But we need His blood, because as humans, our whole life is submerged in sinfulness. It is against our human nature to live in faith. Only by the indwelling of God's Spirit, are we even capable of living by something other than ourselves. I hope that helps and doesn't make it more confusing for you. As always, you ask good questions . Grace | ||
| Snowboardingmom Registered user Username: Snowboardingmom Post Number: 512 Registered: 11-2005 |
Just missed your post, Colleen! Grace | ||
| Justdodie Registered user Username: Justdodie Post Number: 95 Registered: 2-2006 |
Hmmmm... it seems I've received two different types of answers here: some examples of specific acts that are considered sin--that I can understand, although, of course, we would all have our own personal definitions, as we can't all agree on whether certain things are wrong or not. On the other hand, it sounds like several of you are indeed saying that there is something inherent in us that is simply unacceptable because we are 'disconnected', so to speak, from God as a result of this act committed by the first couple. So, therefore, we are required--even though we are disconnected and have no possible way of knowing or experiencing God--to nevertheless take a leap of faith... A leap that consists of trusting and believing in a God that we can have no experience of or connection with--and if we find ourselves unable to honestly do this, then this God refuses to have anything to do with us... to the point of consigning us to an eternity of torture and torment?? Wow! That sounds rather harsh, doesn't it?! I HAVE pondered this and wondered whether this God requires genuine belief, or whether he would accept a person who just 'says the words'--just in case--without feeling them. I did that once, a long time ago--just in case--but nothing really happened, and I eventually moved on and forgot it for many years. I did try really hard and halfway convinced myself that I 'sort of' believed, at that time. By that, I mean that I was very serious about it. I wasn't just pretending or joking around. That was as far as I could get. I can't really force myself to 'believe' something if I don't believe. I wouldn't even know how to begin. And actually, that would go against what I consider to be part of my core essence and value system which is honesty. Maybe it WAS my upbringing, and the emphasis put on being totally truthful, but honesty and not lying--to myself OR to others--has always been crucially important to me... sometimes to my own detriment because I could never learn how to play the 'polite games' of society and 'going along to get along.' (Hope you know what I mean by that) I suppose it's really all a matter of perspective. I certainly believe that there are many, many ways of viewing and explaining the world, and I would rather judge a person's value and worth by their character and behavior, than whether or not they 'believe' properly. Wouldn't you think that God might feel the same? I mean, wouldn't you think that God would certainly know our hearts and our motivations? I guess that's why I have such a tough time believing in the 'vengeful God' who requires such stringent adherence to the rules. Surely a God would have at least as much capacity for compassion and acceptance as his creation, wouldn't you think? I think I'm getting a little off track here, though. Thanks for all your input. Joyce | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1543 Registered: 4-2000  |
Joyce, Salvation is from the Lord alone. Even our faith is a gift from God. We cannot exercise something we are morally-incapable of doing; specifically, believing in Jesus or desiring Him without God first doing something to change our stony hearts. Regeneration precedes faith. Regeneration is an act of creation. God does the creating. When God regenerates a human soul, when He makes us spiritually alive, we make choices. We believe. We have faith. We cling to Christ. God does not believe for us. In regeneration, God changes our hearts. He gives us a new disposition, a new inclination. He plants a desire for Christ in our hearts. We can never trust Jesus for our salvation unless we first desire Him. Without rebirth we have no desire for Christ. Without a desire for Christ we will never choose Christ. The spiritually dead are in no position to make themselves come alive. The cure for spiritual death is the creation of spiritual life in our souls by God the Holy Spirit. Salvation is a gift to be received, not a goal to be achieved. It's all about Him! In awe of His sovereign grace, Dennis Fischer | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 3820 Registered: 9-2006  |
When we come to God it is not a leap of faith, getting in you car and trusting that it will start enough to turn the key, that’s a leap of faith. Getting in you car to go to the next town and hoping you make it, that’s a leap of faith. The Christian faith is based on the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. This is documented, not wishful thinking. It is based on the surety of his word, not a leap of faith, but a sure faith. Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Do you believe that Jesus died, was buried and was resurrected the third day, that the purpose for it was for your salvation? In Acts 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. This is what will be required of you, is required of you now, whether you meet that requirement or not. Corinthians II 6:2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.) Now is the day that is accepted time to believe on him, you have no assurance that you will live until tomorrow. Not a leap of faith, but a sure faith, I know my savior lives. He is ever ready to accept you in this accepted time called today. John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. Does it make people angry that I speak thusly? Hebrews 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. That makes my preaching sound like a pic nic. River | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 741 Registered: 7-2005  |
Joyce, I'm so glad you're posting again. Your thoughts are always so compelling to me, because they are exactly the same as the thoughts my son expresses to me. He was raised in a non-denominational, Christian church, but during his high school years, began to question the reality of God. He, like you, values honesty very highly and, like you, he made a confession of faith in Jesus Christ, but says nothing happened. He says, "If God is real, why doesn't He communicate with me?" I certainly don't have answers that satisfy him, and I probably don't have answers that will satisfy you. However, I treasure the opportunity to spend time with you exploring and pondering these things. Having said all that, I want to ask you a question. You said that nothing haappened when you made your confession of faith. I wonder how you know that nothing happened. What were you expecting to happen? Honestwitness | ||
| Justdodie Registered user Username: Justdodie Post Number: 98 Registered: 2-2006 |
Very simple, Honestwitness, I would like to FEEL something, experience something. I've said to the folks on here, I've said it to my sister who disagrees with me: My feelings are all I have. I simply don't know any other way to judge anything in life except by what I feel/think/believe about it. To me, it's all the same. Although, yes, my sister said that feeling and thinking and believing are not the same. Well, to me they are. So, if I experience nothing firsthand, AND if it also can't be proven scientifically (for example, it's true I've never seen an atom, but I do know that scientists have proven their existence--so I CAN believe in them), then I really can't draw any certain conclusions. I'm all about 'show-me-the-proof'. Pretty interesting, isn't it, that I live in Missouri--the 'Show-Me' state?! Joyce | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 6084 Registered: 3-2004 |
Joyce, what I have learned in my 12 step programs is that feelings are not always accurate. Feelings belong to an individual,and that is how the person feels. It does not make it the truth about the situation. At least that is what I have learned for me. I own my feelings about a situation, but that does not make it the truth about it. Diana L | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 1213 Registered: 5-2007  |
Let me explain how 'feelings' about God's leading and 'hearing' his voice seem to work for me. First, I know God, who is a God of Truth, will not lie or contradict his written word. At center stage of this idea is the assurance he would never be 'telling' me to do something that is a sin. So, when I 'feel' that I am being lead to do a certain thing, it gets tested and even then I am open to the fact I might have 'heard' him wrong. So, here is an example: About a year and a half ago, after read a number of River's post, I seemed to have a clear need to meet him. It seem to be coming from God. There didn't appear to be any moral issues involved. At the time, from the way he 'talked', I assumed he lived back in Arkansas. So, I said; "Lord, you are going to have to arrange this meeting because there is no way for me to get back there any time soon." I have two sisters back nearby but travel anytime soon is out of the question. Then, River revealed that he lived somewhere in Oregon. Then, I said; "Lord, it's big state and he is probably in some remote area that is still to far away. But, Lord, if he is not further than Portland, I'll go". When I finally found out where he lived, it was a shock because it was not only close, it was an area that my father's family had lived and I knew quite well. I still have no idea what God's plan in all this is but it was another shock when the Lord seemed to be leading again by moving River to another area I know about. True, I could have miss-read what God has in mind, but as long as all 'the green lights' appear to be on, I know it is time to move and not stand still. And always remember, it is God's plan and not mine. Keep 'self' out of it. To many of my own plans have turned into honey that sours in the belly. Phil | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 742 Registered: 7-2005 |
Joyce, how is it that you are able to believe something a scientist says he has witnessed, but not believe the written eyewitness accounts of the writers of the Bible? You did not personally experience either happening, yet you choose to believe the scientist but not the Bible writer. What makes one more believable than the other? Honestwitness | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 743 Registered: 7-2005 |
Joyce, please forgive me, if I seem challenging or abrupt. I just want to understend you better, because I believe it will help me relate to my son better. Thank you for sharing your honest thoughts with me. Honestwitness | ||
| Justdodie Registered user Username: Justdodie Post Number: 99 Registered: 2-2006 |
Honestwitness, I believe in science because I know it to be a very stringent, modern exercise, the likes of which did not exist in Bible times. But your question helps me to better understand where you are coming from. Oh, plus the science makes a lot more sense, whereas the Bible seems to be more of a mythical/magical type writing. It's purpose is to convey ideas and the purpose of science is to test and present facts. At least that's my understanding of it. I've always had difficulty believing things that didn't make sense. A lot of the Bible stories just didn't make sense to me, even as a kid. I mean, all the miracles and magical thinking are great ideas, but if someone made those sorts of claims today we'd go WHOA!! Hope that answers your question. I guess the bottom line is, we all have to believe things that make sense TO US alone. No one can really tell another person what they should or shouldn't believe. Oh, and by the way, I don't just automatically believe everything that science tells us. I didn't mean to leave that impression, but I may have. Joyce | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 554 Registered: 7-2007 |
The strange thing for me is that back when I was an Adventist, I never sensed God's presence or His love, yet I believed in Him. I believed that the Adventist church was the "one true church" and was quite a happy and content Adventist. (I don't know why, except that as an Adventist I wasn't saved, so the devil didn't bother tempting me not to believe or anything.) Then the Lord intervened with a series of miracles by which He led me out. (I mentioned one of those miracles in the thread called "Those Other Churches") Since then I've felt His love several times and His presence lots of times. When Adam sinned, we were in Adam; and if we stay there, we'll be lost. Christ (the last Adam) died and rose again, so we can accept Him and be saved. I'm thinking that perhaps the Lord is reaching out to you. You wouldn't be asking these questions otherwise. | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 1739 Registered: 8-2004  |
On the topic of myth vs history, a myth usually has a meaning on it's own - disconnected with any possible historicity that might actually underlie it - but a 'history' is not preserving if it didn't actually happen. For example the myth of Psyche and Cupid teaches plenty of 'lessons' whether or not it 'actually happened' at some point in time: the consequences of jealousy for example. On the other hand, if Abraham was not called by God at some point in history, why on earth do the Jews exist? And if Jesus did not come, die, and rise again there's not much point in the Christian hope of the eternal life He promised. Yes, the Bible describes events that appear to be 'magical' - the virgin birth of Jesus, for example. But even the people of that day recognized that virgin birth was scientifically impossible - that's why Joseph wanted to put Mary away privately. A myth says "let me tell you a story of long ago and far away . . ." It is timeless. The point of the story (usually a moral lesson of some type) stands whether it ever actually happened or not. A history says "let me tell you what happened in this particular place to that particular person at such and such particular time." A history might be wrong, but if it is wrong it is worthless. There are mythical elements in the story of Jesus - the dying God who redeems his people, the light in the darkness - but the thing about it is that this epic thing, God becoming man and living among us, is reported to us to have actually happened at a specific time among specific people, and with specific consequences. . . and if it is wrong then it is dead wrong and totally useless. | ||
| Martin Registered user Username: Martin Post Number: 8 Registered: 11-2008 |
Joyce, I believe in science (although sometimes it can get wrong, basically due to bad assumptions, experimental choices or, simply, by its inherent limitations) and I believe in the Bible (although it also, like in your case, presents to me some things that puzzle me). I don't know if it's because I've always been of the "skeptic" type, not easily lead, not ready to simply accept the "because it's like that" without any reason... Give me a reason! Give me something that my brain can process! Why some people is so afraid of using their brains? For years I heard in the SDA church things like "having doubts is bad"... I could never see why that would be bad. Of course, it felt more like "don't question anything that WE tell you. Simply accept what our theological positions say". Because even going to the Bible and looking it for yourself and getting to your own conclusions from what you read, if it didn't agree with the previous stated points, might be deemed bad. In general I always preferred to keep my mouth shut because, well, if I started talking about what I think or how I see some things at the moment, I guess I might start some fires And not only in the SDA environments ;) I guess that's also due to me being kind of "diplomatic", or that's what some friends tell me. Anyway, returning to the previous point, why do I believe in the Bible, even when I see points that are kind of hard to make sense of? Well, due to what you mentioned in the other thread: some of the experiences I've had, that I consider were coming from God. In my opinion that's the real first miracle that happens in the life of a believer: that you can start looking at things in the Bible from another point of view, even if it sounds crazy or non-sensical. And, well, sometimes I've tried to find some reasoning for those "weird" spots... In some way it worked for me. I'm not going to say that it would work for anybody else, and I would never say that I believe those things were exactly as I might think... I only leave the possibility open and ask God to help me if I'm wrong. In the end, one of the things I'm sure of is that God works differently in each person. It took me about 20 years since I started attending the SDA church until, well, I could clearly see God doing something and that impacted me in a way that's hard to define. But, well, as once I told a group of kids on my SDA church... "Faith is like chocolate". You can try to explain how chocolate tastes to a person who never tried it, but it's really impossible to explain with words. You can never get near enough to give him the exact idea. That person will have to try for himself to see what chocolate is like. My experiences may serve to encourage others but not really as a foundament for their faith. I'm quite sure that as long as you don't shut the door completely God will try to show Himself in some way. For other people it might be a shorter or a longer time to answer, but that's the good point: that it's not forced upon us. I don't know if I'm making much sense with all this, but I hoped I was minimally helpful. I'm happy to discuss anything PS: About the 'sin' topic... I'm trying to think something, but it's not easy without recurring to overused expressions (something that I always hated in church). I always was taught that 'sin' is basically 'separation from God'. Now, this is a bit of my reasoning: according to the Bible we were 'with' God in the beginning but we decided to go our own way, so then we 'separated from God'. What Jesus does with His sacrifice is to clean us from all sins, so he can take us once again together 'with' God. All this said, the idea of the 'original sin' and us inheriting it always had been a bit problematic for me... Especially when it is also said that “The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself” (Ezekiel 18:20). | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 9076 Registered: 12-2003 |
Martin, the Ezekiel passage fits perfectly with the fact of our inherent sin. Read Romans 5:12-21. We do bear the weight of guilt for the SINS we commit, and our families do not receive punishment for our guilt—although, as Exodus 20 states, the effects of our sins may be experienced upon the third and fourth generations. Romans 5:12-14 describes the reality that even though people's sins were not taken into account where there was no law (before the law was given), nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses. Death is the consequence of sin. There is a difference between all humanity being dead in sin, as described in Ephesians 2 and Romans 1 through 3, and being guilty of specific sins. We are born disconnected from God. That is the result of sin, and it means our spirits are in the domain of darkness (Col 1:3). We are guilty before God and unable to approach Him. But God took the punishment for sin Himself in the person of Jesus and gives us His cleansing, forgiveness, and righteousness. When we are born of the Spirit, our own spirits become alive eternally. Even though our bodies are still "sinful flesh" and in bondage to decay (see Romans 8), our spirits are alive, and the Holy Spirit in us is the guarantee that our bodies WILL BE glorified (Ephesians 1:13-14). Our original sin, our spiritual disconnect from God, is the natural sinfulness in us that makes us totally vulnerable to commit sins. God has revealed His own love and our own sinfulness to us via His word, first in the law (Torah), then through the prophets, and finally in the person of Christ (see Hebrews 1:2). He has given us this special revelation of His purposes and our position relative to Him in order to rescue us from ourselves. The blood of Christ not only cleanses us from all of our SINS but also from our intrinsic spiritual death, our original sin, that made it impossible for us to be in the presence of God. We now have a Mediator forever, and His blood of the eternal covenant forever opens the way for humanity to approach God directly. Colleen | ||
| Martin Registered user Username: Martin Post Number: 11 Registered: 11-2008 |
Colleen, thanks for the answer. | ||
| Mwh Registered user Username: Mwh Post Number: 816 Registered: 4-2006  |
Jacob Prash once explained sin this way, There are 2 Greek words for sin (hamarteno & hamartano) translating 2 Hebrew words. "Het" - missing the mark; not going far enough. These are sins of 'omission' (failing to do as we should) as in 'all have sinned falling short of the glory of God'. "Pesha" - going too far. These are sins of 'commission' (doing what we should not; transgressions). People sin by both going too far and by not going far enough. Hope its useful, In Him, Martin --- www.jesufrelse.dk/en - Proclaiming the Good News of Salvation | ||
| Stevendi Registered user Username: Stevendi Post Number: 407 Registered: 10-2006 |
According to Larry Crabb in his book, "Understanding People", sin is defined as "our refusal to admit our absolute dependence on God" Steve |
