| Author | Message | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 1420 Registered: 11-2005 |
Ask An Adventist - Christ Question #1 Here is a question to ask your Adventist friends: Was Jesus fully God during the time He was on this earth?Gilbert Jorgensen | ||
| Animal Registered user Username: Animal Post Number: 334 Registered: 7-2008  |
Good question... If Jesus wasnt fully God while He was on earth, then how does His death on the Cross save us?? Animal....just wondering | ||
| Angelcat Registered user Username: Angelcat Post Number: 8 Registered: 11-2008 |
Well, I guess I am techincally still an Adventis, (can't wait til my name is off the church books)and I think Jesus was fully God. I've always thought that, and assume that what the cnurch teaches? I'm gonna ask my dad-he left the church years ago, and has his own home church, but they are, I guess, historical adventists. | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 2538 Registered: 10-2004  |
Angelcat, Actually, Adventism teaches that Jesus "surrendered" His divine attributes while He was on earth, and also that He is only "part of" (one third of) the "Godhead" rather than being fully God. For more information on this subject, check out the article entitled "Discovering the Adventist Jesus" in the May/June 2007 Proclamation! magazine, starting on page 10 here: http://lifeassuranceministries.org/Proclamation2007_MayJun.pdf Jeremy | ||
| Angelcat Registered user Username: Angelcat Post Number: 10 Registered: 11-2008 |
I just asked my mom. She says that Jesus was fully God, altho he cast His divinity aside.SHe said some adventists differentiate between fully and truly. I said I wasn't sure what it meant by cast His divinity aside, and asked for a Bible text. She'll get back to me on that, altho she found some SOP quotes. Basically that God has His powers, but in order to set an exmaple for us, didn't use them for himself. I'm still reading the article Jeremy posted. | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 3823 Registered: 9-2006  |
There are six main theories on the atonement. 1. Recapitulation theory. 2. Ransom theory. 3. Satisfaction theory. 4. Moral example theory. 5. Governmental theory. 6. Penal substitution theory. The Adventist pretty much seems to land on number four, although I am not an expert on Adventism so I could be wrong and there is such a mix of past doctrines in there, they seemed to have picked out a little from every known doctrine, put it in a jar and made goo. That’s just the way it looks from my view point though. River | ||
| Angelcat Registered user Username: Angelcat Post Number: 11 Registered: 11-2008 |
Jeremy, I finished rading the articel youposted, and have printed it off for future reference. It's an amzing article. Just...wow, there are no words..I could totally relate to it...wow. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 9073 Registered: 12-2003  |
Yes, River, Adventists have picked out a little from every known doctrine! Yes, moral influence theory is a very popular idea among them. Also the governmental theory figures in as well. Hodge-podge it is—but never biblical! Angelcat, YES—Jesus is FULLY God—meaning He has all of the attributes of God, not merely one-third of them. He is more amazing, more powerful, more intimate, more faithful than we ever imagined. It is such an astonishing thing literally to feel love for Him and to know He has truly saved me and me alive. Colleen | ||
| Bskillet Registered user Username: Bskillet Post Number: 36 Registered: 8-2008 |
I have some problems with just about every theory of atonement, not because they are all wrong, but because they all seem much smaller than what Paul seems to indicate about the cross. It is as if, in Paul's view, something more than a mere technical legal principle was involved with the cross, but even more from what we'd think of as natural law - much like taking an antibiotic allows for the killing of an infection. In Paul's writings, it is almost as if the death and resurrection of Jesus was akin to God dropping a nuclear bomb in the spiritual realm. When I was in Adventism, it always seemed the cross of Jesus Christ was downplayed, like it wasn't enough, or there was some other truth that needed to be added to it, or that it was the small stuff. I remember reading Paul say to the Corinthians, "For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified" (1 Cor 2:2). I loved it, but as an Adventist I couldn't understand it. I thought, didn't Paul also have to teach them the Sabbath and the Law and stuff like that? | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 9096 Registered: 12-2003 |
Bskillet, you have totally expressed my thoughts. I love your analogy of the cross being like an antibiotic that kills the infection. I agree--the cross is HUGE...not just because of my sin but because it reversed something cosmic. Romans 8:18-25 talks about all of creation being subjected to decay by the One who subjected it. All creation includes more than earth; it's ALL CREATION. And the bondage to decay was brought about by God's fiat; He subjected it. There's more significance to this than I can completely understand. And CREATION is eagerly waiting for the sons of God to be revealed—as in glorified when Christ returns—so it can be released from its own bondage. The cross is the means by which ALL this restoration will happen. And you are SO right: Adventism totally downplayed the cross. It was a piece of the salvation puzzle, something we needed to "have" but which would never be enough for us to be saved. It provided whatever it was "blood" provided. We still had to obey, keep Sabbath, acknowledge Ellen, and be sure our lives were on an upward path when we died. Jesus and the cross and the resurrection are the ENTIRE gospel—and all creation waits for the final glorification of the sons of God. I still don't "understand" it—but I know it's all much bigger than I ever imagined as an Adventist! Colleen |
