| Author | Message | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 1295 Registered: 6-2006  |
Hi Y'all, I have a question about how you were raised to look at, or consider the non-SDA churches. In other words, what were you taught to believe? What were some of the things your parents, teachers or pastors told you about the other churches out there? I would also like to see some of the things Ellen wrote on the subject, if you could provide the excerpts. There are always bits and pieces on the subject here, but I'd started this thread to get a little more of a compilation on it. My in-laws have been completely silent with me about it for the last 24 years. I'm not really sure why, and I do think it's odd. However I've heard grumblings about it at family get-togethers when they don't think I'm around to hear. Thanks!  Leigh Anne | ||
| Indy4now Registered user Username: Indy4now Post Number: 306 Registered: 2-2008 |
for one thing, we were the true church since we were the only ones who worshiped on the Sabbath. My mom had told me that Sunday worshippers were held captive by Satan's lies. If I was to believe one of Satan's lies... I can't remember exactly what she said, I remember that I would somehow be trapped by the lies and not think clearly while I was under Satan's lies. So I was scared to even become friends with someone who went to church on a Sunday. I didn't want to accidently get trapped. hmmm... kinda like the veil I had when I read Moses every week! ~vivian | ||
| Mommamayi Registered user Username: Mommamayi Post Number: 669 Registered: 12-2007  |
My guess is that they are being gentle with you because you are not part of the inside circle, and that they continuously pray for your eventual conversion. Often when I would ask a difficult question, growing up, I would be told "No church is perfect. We'll probably get to heaven and find out all the churches are a bit off on some things." I have not heard this kind of thinking at all since leaving Adventism. I was told that many "Sunday worshipers" really didn't know their bibles, but relied on their pastor's sermons to get their knowledge of the bible. That if they really studied their bible, they would plainly see the truth of the Sabbath. My parents and teachers were always careful to say that there would be people from many different religions in heaven, as they would only be held accountable for the knowledge they had received prior to their death. However in the "time of the end" it would become obvious to everyone in the entire world, that the dividing line was the Sabbath and you were either on one side of the line or the other. It was also said that "We love the Catholic people, but the pope and their church represent the Mark of the Beast." There was always as much distance as possible put between any comparisons to SDA's and Mormons or Jehovah's Witnesses, and Walter Martin's clearing of Adventism as a cult was highly praised and used to support our faith. Other people just misunderstood us and thought that anything different or unusual was cultish. They just needed to be educated about who we really were, and then they would see we were just Christians like everybody else, but with a more accurate understanding of scripture. The personal opinions expressed to me from the adults in my life were that Adventists were most similar to Baptists and it was often mentioned how there were Seventh Day Baptists. (I've never seen one of their churches, but evidently there are a handful of them out there! ) Martin Luther was admired for standing up to the Catholic church, however it was thought that modern day Lutherans were still mostly Catholic, and you know what that means. And the impression I had of the other churches was that they were rather secular, primarily about the ritual. Boy, that sure is humbling to share! | ||
| Jonvil Registered user Username: Jonvil Post Number: 231 Registered: 4-2007 |
Having no previous contact with any denomination I was quite willing to accept anything the Adventists told me (color me ‘willing dupe’). Without specifics all I remember was a huge mental ‘DANGER’ sign when it came to anyone who was not an Adventist, they were all steeped in error and lost. However, back in the 90’s while living in St Louis, we were invited to a Lutheran Christmas program and I was extremely surprised at how biblically centered they were, obviously this was a wake-up call in that I never forgot it. Just this one event, while not exactly causing me to immediately embrace other Denominations, caused me to realize there was a lot more to those ‘others’ than Adventism was willing to admit to. Now, I’m one of those ‘others’. John Douglas | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 6015 Registered: 3-2004  |
Being raised SDA and going to their schools, first grade through university graduation, I will say ditto to everything every one has said. I did not completely believe what was said about Catholics because one of my Mom's first cousins is a Catholic priest. We all loved Uncle Albert and still love him. When my son, in 1993, told me what he had learned from a former SDA pastor we told each other we could not attend a Sunday church. HA!!! We both do now. God knows what is best for us and that is the gospel we hear . He is so awesome. Diana L | ||
| Larry Registered user Username: Larry Post Number: 722 Registered: 5-2007 |
Diana, My background is worse than yours. I did believe everything sda's taught about Catholics! Hook line and sinker, they say. Isn't it wonderful when God shows mercy to a deceived person? WOW! Others, He hardens. | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 548 Registered: 7-2007 |
I was taught that ALL those churches that went to church on Sunday were false. I was taught that those people were SUNDAY KEEPERS. Now I know that a real Christian doesn't KEEP any day. Jesus fulfilled the DAY and now He's our Sabbath. (Colossians 2:16,17) Now that I'm a Christian, I know how WRONG the SDA church is. I want to add a caution here. Just because we were in a cult doesn't mean that EVERY church out there is RIGHT. There are plenty of churches that ADD to the gospel and any church that adds, is a false church. The devil is perfectly happy to have a person go from one cult to another. Awhile back a friend and I tried to study with some Jehovah's Witnesses. We were only able to study with them three times before they decided we were too unteachable. We knew too much about the Bible and we were teaching THEM. The first two studies were done with a two Witnesses who had been Catholic before they became JWs. In the third study one of them was replaced by a third and she too, had been a Catholic. Remember Roger Morneau? I think that was his name. Back when I was an Adventist, I read his book. I was SO pleased that he'd come into the "TRUTH" because he had gone from the Catholic church to the occult to becoming an Adventist! Now, looking back, I'm sad because he was still decieved. Paul said: "But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed." Galatians 1:8 The devil is behind EVERY CHURCH that adds to the Bible! | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 9030 Registered: 12-2003  |
I also believed that "Sunday-keepers" would one day kill (or attempt to kill) all Sabbath-keepers. When that international Sunday law would be passed and the death decree leveled against all who opposed the Sunday law, we could expect all Sunday-keepers to kill us. Not only that, but those who had left the Sabbath would be the worst persecutors of those who were loyal to it. Richard actually grew up with palpable fear of the Catholics he encountered, believing they would eventually hunt him down to kill him. That fear was not limited to the Catholics, either. All of the "daughters of Babylon" who kept Sunday would desire the death of the Sabbath-keepers. Colleen | ||
| Aliza Registered user Username: Aliza Post Number: 180 Registered: 8-2006 |
Since as SDA we kept the Sabbath and I believed other Christians thought the day was transferred to Sunday, it just showed me I was surrounded by a bunch of very nominal Christians. They didn't even "keep" Sunday! It just goes to show how mixed up I was on several doctrines. | ||
| Bskillet Registered user Username: Bskillet Post Number: 20 Registered: 8-2008 |
One of the things I love about not being SDA anymore is that I can now love the Lord's bride without reservation regarding a day of worship or diet or the state of the dead, etc. etc. I don't have to think somehow that there is something wrong with "Sunday-keepers" that keeps them from fully being part of the body of Christ. Jesus is absolutely head-over-heels in love with His bride. We should be too. | ||
| Akweavers Registered user Username: Akweavers Post Number: 77 Registered: 8-2008 |
Well, we use to drive by Sunday churches and say, "Look at all the beast worshippers". I remember when I was a kid and stores were all closed on Sunday, I would holler out.."They are just off worshipping the beast" as we drove past a closed store. I really thought they were all evil and decieved, that they didn't see the truth because they didn't want to. We figured they would all come to kill us someday. We were always told to be nice to our neighbors because Sister White said that in the time of trouble they would help hide us out if they liked us. I went to my first ever Sunday church about six weeks ago and was scared to death. The first time there I kept thinking, without thinking, that they couldn't possibly know what they were talking about. We went to a church today and the preacher kept saying amen every little bit. It was strange at first and my kids were looking at me and laughing. We got used to it and after a bit we didn't notice it really. I can say this now without any doubt, the people at these "Sunday churches" are much nicer and tenfold more real about their love and faith in Jesus then any SDA I have ever met. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 9039 Registered: 12-2003 |
It's amazing, isn't it? Yes, I remember the arrogant, private ridicule about "Sunday-keepers". Amazing and humbling to be nourished by those dreaded "Sunday-worshipers" and to be an "apostate" myself, worshiping on Sunday with the rest of them...! Colleen | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 6032 Registered: 3-2004 |
As an SDA, after I moved here to NV, I drove past this huge church whose parking lot always had many cars in it. I used to think, those poor folks do not know the truth, as I listened to Christian (non SDA music) on my radio. I bet you cannnot guess where God told me to go to church that day in May 2004?? If you guessed that big church, you are right. It is now my home and full of family that I have come to love dearly. I can go to any of their 5 services (2 on Saturday and 3 on Sunday) and I will see some one I know. When I walk into the church I still have that feeling of having come home. I am so thankful God told me to "go to that big church on Russell Rd, off 95". He knows what is best for me. That is where I learned how Awesome God is. Diana L | ||
| Justdodie Registered user Username: Justdodie Post Number: 91 Registered: 2-2006  |
Diana, I have heard so many people use that expression "God told me" and I've never understood, but was afraid to ask: Exactly what do people mean when they say that? Do you hear an actual 'voice' in your head, just get a 'feeling' or 'impression', just feel a certainty of it somehow? I can honestly say--and this is probably why I've always had trouble truly believing, whether as an Adventist, or anything I've tried since--God has never 'spoken' to me. Sometimes I just smile and let it go, and sometimes I just really feel puzzled and left out. And, of course, people give me all kinds of advice of what to do: read the Bible, pray, etc. I have done lots of reading over the years, and that definitely includes the Bible. But as far as 'praying', well, I never really understood that or felt anything real from it either, although I can see that others do. In fact, 'prayer' is another thing that always puzzled me too. Obviously, I've seen and heard any number of people praying, but I always feel like I'm on the outside looking in. And again I wonder? What are they feeling? What are they experiencing that I'm not? Am I missing the 'God gene' or what? I know all you folks are sincere and really believe, but I have just never been able to do that, even when I was younger and really, really wanted to. These days, I mostly just wonder....what are they experiencing and why? And why am I not? I really enjoy learning about all kinds of religions, and learning about the ideas that they believe in, how they developed, etc. But I no longer do it in an effort to believe... just to learn and understand. I was just wondering, have you met others like me, and if so, what do you say to them? | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 6079 Registered: 3-2004 |
Just Dodie, When I said "God told me", I mean exactly that. I heard His voice in my car as I was driving. This is the 2nd time He has spoken to me. What others mean, I do not know. I have told you what I mean. I have met a number of others in my church to whom God has spoken personal things, like for me. I have an older sister who does not want anything to do with God, religion or church. That is the closest I have come to what you experience. I do not talk of those things. I do treat her with love. I can only say to you about God what I say to anyone in my Christ centered 12 step program. You will come to a place in your life where you will be so desperate for some kind of recovery that all you can do is look up. When that will happen, I do not know. When it does happen, ask God to help you. I cannot say why you have not experienced a relationship with God. I truly wish I could tell you. I would like to suggest something to you Dodie. Leave off all the reading to learn about anything. Get a New King James version or NIV Bible. Start reading the gospel of John, then read the other gospels, then the rest of the NT. Do not read the OT at this time. Read only the NT. Before you read tell God just what you have said above. Be truthful with Him and tell Him exactly how you think and feel. Then ask Him to send the Holy Spirit to teach you what He wants you to know. If all you can do is go through the motions then go through the motions. Talk to God like you are writing/talking to me right now. Above all else, be honest with God about your feelings and thoughts towards Him. He has broad shoulders and will understand. You do not have to be kneeling. You can be sitting, standing, walking. Father in Heaven, I thank you for Just Dodie. You know what she is experiencing and what she is going through. She feels like she is on the outside looking in. Draw her into you circle of Love and may she feel your presence and know that you are with her. Thank you awesome God for doing this right now. If you want to contact me by email I will ask Colleen to send you my email address. With much love and care for you, Diana ps: Do not read any other books, magazines or anything else while you are reading the New Testament. (Message edited by Flyinglady on November 29, 2008) | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 2535 Registered: 10-2004  |
Justdodie, Welcome back to the forum! It's good to see you posting here again. Jeremy | ||
| Justdodie Registered user Username: Justdodie Post Number: 93 Registered: 2-2006 |
Thanks, Diana, I would have to say, it would definitely be just 'going through the motions,' for me because I simply am not able to believe what I don't believe, if you know what I mean. And, in fact, I HAVE done as you suggested and 'be honest with God', including saying in frustration: "If you're really out there, I dare you to show yourself to me!" (as well as some other things that I won't repeat here!). No response yet..... In other words, this is an off-and-on source of frustration for me--sometimes I'm interested, sometimes I'm just plain tired of it and lay it aside as unanswerable. I will say, though, that while I would like to know unequivocally whether there really is any kind of God--and I think there must be 'something' to explain Life--I just don't think it could possibly be like what is encountered in the Bible. My rational mind and sense of justice just won't let me consider that. So I just sort of wander along, considering a variety of ideas, including the idea of an 'all-compassionate' God-type force that (being God and therefore, omniscient) completely understands and accepts human beings as they are, without the need to turn his head away because (as I was taught in Sabbath School), he 'can't bear to look upon sin.' That always struck me as odd. ....Speaking of sin, I have started a thread, http://www.formeradventist.com/discus/messages/11/8065.html?1228014502, on that subject, listing a number of questions I have always had about that concept.... I AM curious as to why you advise me to limit my reading. It has been my experience that the broader and more varied my reading, the deeper my understanding of the subject matter becomes. Understanding, of course, is quite different from 'faith' or 'belief' or 'feeling'. So perhaps some people might say that I'm going about it all wrong. Unfortunately, it's the only way I really know. I seem to be a 'thinker' rather than an 'experiencer'. Are you perhaps suggesting that I am getting conflicting opinions, by my varied reading? Thanks, Joyce | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 6081 Registered: 3-2004 |
Joyce, I say limit the reading to only the NT so you will not be side tracked by other things you read. Just concentrate on what the Bible says. You do not have to do that forever. Only while reading and concentrating on the NT. When I did that, that is when I met Jesus in a personal way. I do not understand Jesus, the Father or the Holy Spirit, but I know Jesus Christ in a way I did not as an SDA. I talk to Him constantly. Twice He has spoken to me. The rest of the time He puts thoughts in my head that I never thought before. I discuss these with other Christians and with my sponsor in my Christ centered 12 step program just to make sure it is not me and my ideas. God has been very specific with me as I do not understand general terms. I have told Him that. When I am studying and learning other things I will read a variety of things, but when it comes to the Bible, I go only with the Bible. I will read a whole book of the Bible to get the whole picture or what the writer is talking about. I may read that book a couple times before going on to the next book. I have done the same thing to God, when it comes to talking to Him. I have been very, very angry with Him in the past and let Him know in no uncertain terms just why. I found your thread about sin and left a comment there. Take care my friend, I do care about you. Diana | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 9066 Registered: 12-2003 |
Joyce, we have to come to the place of submitting our minds to God. Our spirits and our minds are not the same thing, but they do inform one another. If we hold onto our rational ability to evaluate what is ultimately just and merciful, we won't be able to perceive reality. The reason we won't is that God is not human, nor does He operate as a human. He is the Creator, and we have to surrender our "right" to understand Him. Jesus never talked about us "understanding" Him or the Father. Rather, He spoke of "knowing" Him and the Father. The term "know" is one of intimacy and union and vulnerability, not one of rational evaluation. I agree with Diana's advice above. It's only when we give up our "right" to learn, research, and evaluate God on our terms and by our own understanding that we begin to perceive who He really is. He has revealed Himself in one place: His word. There is no other source in the world where the revelation of God's redemption of us is revealed. Only in the Bible will find what God reveals about Himself, and ourselves, and about His redemption. We have to be willing to give up our "trusted" forms of scholarship and submit to His word, being willing to be taught in ways that do not involve our own rationalization. It's about surrender, Joyce. It's not about intellectual acuity or brilliant logic. It's about surrender--of not only our feelings—which many of us have trouble experiencing anyway!—but of our minds. When we submit our minds to Him, giving up our right to perceive the world the way we understand it and being willing to be taught truth and reality, then we begin to meet the Lord Jesus and to know what is real. Praying for you... Colleen | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 552 Registered: 7-2007 |
Joyce, whenever you try to think about Jesus and the gospel, is it like running up against a blank wall where it gets hard to even continue thinking about Christianity? I don't remember reading any of your posts before today. You must have posted back before I started - but then I haven't read every thread; so I could have missed some posts. Anyway, I'm glad to "meet" you |
